Exceeding The Max

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pike hunter

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The abc's of reloading says to never exceed the maximum load.

The hodgdons 2008 annual says quote[often I'll exceed the book maximum safely.]

also says quote[use lots of reloading manuals. In this litigious age, the data is all pretty conservative.Still , a maximum load in one manual may appear on middle groundin another.]

What are your thought on this?
I have a load that is 1/2 a grain over the max of the speer book.
primer look the same a the minimin loads case head same size.
no shinny case necks other then my clean cases.
cant tell the differents from either.
I have shot .47 and .46 groups at 100yrds with this load.
Gun kicks a fair bit more.:confused::confused:
 
What is the main purpose for this load? If it is primarily target use, why up the load if there is no change in accuracy? If this is a hunting load, and the extra power equates to extra knock down energy, then there is a good reason. For hunting loads, I always try to practice with what I am going to hunt with.
 
This load is a practice load witch i have been working on to see how well i could get it to group. and .5 grain over is the best.

but not just for this load but for all hand loading.





Join Date: 06-01-08
Posts: 27 Exceeding The Max

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The abc's of reloading says to never exceed the maximum load.

The hodgdons 2008 annual says quote[often I'll exceed the book maximum safely.]

also says quote[use lots of reloading manuals. In this litigious age, the data is all pretty conservative.Still , a maximum load in one manual may appear on middle groundin another.]
 
"...with this load..." What load for which cartridge? Half a grain isn't a big deal, depending on the cartridge. A full grain over max can give you grief. Either way, it's not a good idea. Ammo loaded during the summer using one powder lot can be very different in January with the same powder lot. A change in humidity, alone, can cause pressure changes.
Blow up your rifle or handgun using over max loads will leave you with an oddly shaped paper weight. This is precisely why a lot of firearm manufacturer's warrantees don't cover reloaded ammo.
"...a maximum load in one manual may appear on middle ground in another..." Extremely rarely. Mind you, load data varies due to environmental issues and the firearm used for the tests too. Bullet maker's books are testing loads for their bullets only with limited powders.
"...but for all hand loading..." That's not at all true.
"...extra power equates to extra knock down energy..." Nope. A half grain more powder won't give any bullet more power.
 
1/2 grain is usually not a big deal.

No 2 guns are alike...that load may be way overpressure in another one just like yours...and some calibers are EXTREMELY sensitive to even very slight differences in powder charges. (220 Swift for example)

Speer is well known for listing some of the hottest loads that you will find printed in a reloading manual...so be careful.
 
Greetings,

1/2 grain of Unique is not a big deal when you are just over the max.
1/2 grain of Clays or #2 can be a big deal.
The fastest the powder the more pressure buildup you will have.

Now, my 2 cents:

Going over the max is NEVER a good idea. If you want more power, get a bigger gun. For example, if a 44 mag is not enough for you, get a 454 cassull.

A higher load will put more wear on your gun. Depending of the brand, on the middle to long run, parts will become loose. For example, I use my 44 mag HOT loads only with my Ruger Super Redhawk. Not to talk bad about the other brands, but I know that my Taurus is built less strong.

Now, the harsh part: Why do you bent the rule of what you read in every book, every magazine and hear from 90% of the old timer reloaders? If you chronograph your load, you'll see that the extra powder will increase the feet per seconds by only a very few feets. The speed curve flatten and the pressure curve rise up. This is not good. Save yourself potential trouble and scale down.

Thank you
 
It's your rifle and your body, so your loads are your responsibility. But me? I'll stick to the guide lines. There isn't a bullet in the world worth my losing an eye or a hand. And frankly, the deer wont care if it's going 50 feet a second faster when it hits him anyway. If I can't get accuracy without exceeding the guide lines then I'd just try a different powder and work up another load.
 
If you aren't a very experienced and accomplished handloader, you should never exceed the max. If you know your gun and are well versed in reading pressure signs, there are times when going over maximum published loads is safe and will get you much better accuracy.

I never load for highest velocity; only for accuracy. Most of the time, the most accurate load is comfortably below the published maximums.
 
Why are load manuals different???????? Because the tests were not in the same place at the same time using the same weapons and components!!!!!

Here is a list of a few things that will affect the "max load" in each set of tests:
Primer: strength, brisance - is a measure of the rapidity with which an explosive develops its maximum pressure
Barrel: length; tightness of chamber; tightness of bore; height of the lands, or no lands if polygonal; distance of bullet to lands; temperature of barrel;
Bullet: diameter; bearing surface of bullet, alloy of bullet; shape of bullet; crimp; seating depth/OAL (affects cartridge volume);
Brass: new/used; elasticity; manufacturer, wall thickness; volume;
Powder: new, aged, old, batch powder was from;
Weather: ambient air temp., barometric pressure, humidity; elevation above sea level
Other: I am sure I have not listed all

Now, mix and match them. Anyone care to calculate the number of possible combinations?

My point here is that published data should be used as a guide, because your weapon and load will be different. Looking for pressure signs in rifle bottleneck cartridges is a good (not foolproof) indicator of safe loads. There are no reliably safe pressure signs for straight wall pistol cartridges.

Your goal should be to develop the most accurate load, not fastest or closest to max listed load. I must also say that I have accuracy loads that are over listed max.
 
I'm guessing you are talking about your 300WSM, 165gr Bullet, H4350.

I don't know what bullet your are using, but here is some data to chew on.
Hodgdon 165gr Partition 65.5gr H4350
Sierra #5 67.1gr H4350
Hornady #7 67.5gr H4350
Swift A-Frame 66.5gr H4350
Speer 65gr H4350

Seems that Speer is the only one below your 65.5gr load. What bullet are you using?
 
Well, you are well under Max according to several others. Even though Speer has this load listed .5 less, I would not hesitate to use it. Keep an eye on the primer pockets. If you can load 4-5 times without experiencing loose primer pockets you should be fine.
 
THANKS everyone for all your answers.I can see that some people think this is horrible while other have no problem with it at all with in all safe measure.
As steve has point out the the speer book max is the lowest max out of 5 bullet makers with the same powder for a differents up to 2.5 grains.No pressure signs have been seen on all cases that have been fired.This load being tied in second last place for powder for this type of bullet I dont believe barrel pressure should be a concern.With all things being safe I im happy with the sub .1/2inch groups at 100yrds.

thanks everyone for your concerns and thoughts on this subject.
and other while I enjoy the reloading learning curve fun that we all have taken in.
 
pike hunter,

Look again at all the reloading manuals for the weight of bullet you will be using. I believe you will notice that they are using different brass. Their can be a big difference in the case capacity of the various makes of brass, hence higher or lower pressure. Although you see it here all the time, you should NEVER give out a load without specifying what brass was used.

Don
 
If you aren't a very experienced and accomplished handloader, you should never exceed the max. If you know your gun and are well versed in reading pressure signs, there are times when going over maximum published loads is safe and will get you much better accuracy.
Click to expand...


Good post.

Some of my .30-06 loads are well into .300 Mag. territory. They are very safe in my Remington 700. The boxes have red labels not to shoot those reloads in any of my other guns.
 
I believe you will notice that they are using different brass
Click to expand...

Good point, but in this case Speer, Hornady, Sierra and Swift are all using Win brass. Hodgdon's on line data does not list primer or case.
 
It is only when you select "Print" that the case and primer make are displayed.
Click to expand...

I didn't realize that, thanks for the tip. Then that makes it unanimous, all load data I have listed is with Win brass.
 
As stated previously in this thread, not all rifles are equal in what is actually maximum. Not all manuals are equal is just as important. Often their max loads will vary greatly from one to the other. The manuals are guides only, based on data gleaned at the time of testing. I have several different manuals that are used for reference in working up loads. There is a ton of load data available online as well as most of you know. When you use any data, make comparisons and choose wisely.
 
chrono

If you are going to push like this a decent chrono for $150 is a very wise investment.
Click to expand...

Yes i would like to get a chrono.

I know it tells you FPS from which you can tell trajectory what else can I learn from one?
 
You use it to map a load. Powder charge and velocity should rise parallel and linear. For instance:

If going from 55.0 to 55.5 grains of powder X takes me from 3200fps to 3250fps, then increasing the charge from 55.5 to 56.0 SHOULD put my velocity very near 3300. If it doesn't, you better figue out WHY. BEFORE going any higher.

Make sense? The above is a simplified example, but I hope you get the general idea.

Do a search on the term chrono mapping. There should be a lot of info buried on it here on THR.
 
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