Exceeding The Max

[pike hunter]

Ben it does make sence to me.
so give me and example of why with the powder increase not fps increase?

Just to make it clear Im not about pushing the max.

but i do have a load that is over not by much that shoot very well.

 

[Ben Shepherd]

A few reasons:

1. Barrel length. Could be you're just burning powder out past the muzzle.

2. The more common(and much more dangerous) reason?

You're powder's pissed. you've pushed your powder into pressure ranges it WASN'T designed for. You are getting to the area called "thin ice"

3. If your velocity comes in lower with a higher powder charge?

You are practically BEGGING for a disaster to happen.


The above results assume a long list of things:

Proper case prep.
Trimmed right?
Uniform crimp?
Primers seated properly?
Are cases from the same lot? Do they have the same internal volume?

Powder charge correct? Sure? Check it again anyway.

Chrono reading correctly?
Are you testing at the altitude, and with the weather conditions and temperatures in which you intend to use that particular load in?


I don't ask these questions to scare you out of testing the limits a bit. Just to make you very, very cautious.

I've been chrono mapping for years. But I'll share a little story that happened a couple years back:

Gun-
9.5" super redhawk in 44 mag

Brass-
Winchester

Powder-
Blue dot

Slug-
300 grain hard cast lead.

I wasn't happy with the speeds I was getting with 2400, AA9, VitN110, or 296. I ran out of case room before pressure signs showed or hitting the velocity I wanted. So I switched to a faster powder, blue dot.

All was going well in steps of .2 grain increases. Velocity and powder charge were going up even, no pressure signs. This went on .2 grains at a time for a full 2 grains.

The next .2 grain increase? Velocity dropped about 30 fps. And I had to tap the ejector rod with a small hammer to get the brass out. That powder(which is known for being tempermental) went from safe to redline in 1/5 of a grain increase!!

How accurate is your powder measure? Or do you hand weigh each charge?

Point being:

IF you push it-
Go slow, go careful, and don't ever do it without proper equipment or when you are destracted. Then make sure the loads you work up are used ONLY in the gun the load was developed in.

 

[pike hunter]

Thanks Ben

Thanks you have been very great to me.
And i have found what you have told me to be very interesting.
I have learnd alot.

So you would subjest with any load to work up to the max load and above with a chrono looking for any sighs of pressure or no increase of fps with powder increase(if happens back off charge)????

I load for accurracy not speed thats my goal.

 

[Ben Shepherd]

Exactly. When velocity gains stop, you stop. If you're right at or over the listed max when this happens, it's a good idea to back off one step and call it good.

Never sacrifice speed for accuracy though. If you find your best accuracy at the light side of the powder charge, then stay with it. If you want more speed with that given slug, then you'll have to switch powders.

All my bolt action rifles will shoot the loads I've worked up for them into an inch @ 100 yards on a good day, and if I can't keep a given load under 2" @ 100, it gets thrown out.

 

[kelbro]

The problem with actual 'over max' loads is that once you're there, it's too late. Damage has been done. Once may not hurt the firearm. Twenty times might not. Occasionally though, once is all that it takes. Finding the actual 'max load' for a firearm is difficult without expensive pressure equipment. I shoot for accuracy. Max loads are seldom the most accurate.

I like my rifles, my face, my hands, and I feel that it is my responsibility as a handloader to not put those folks around me in danger either.

 

[cpttango30]

Of my 5 reloading manuals ( I know I need a few more) I will look threw and find the lowest low and the highest high and load half way in between them. and work up in .5gr increments.

 

[moooose102]

when you enter into overloading, it is like walking on glass. there is a good chance you will get hurt, but not always. IF you ever truly experience a round that is to hot, you will not want to go back there. it just isnt worth it. if you were going after dangerous game, and needed one hot load, that might be worth it, but for practice, it just (sorry) insane. you might be lucky, and have a loose chamber, barrel etc. , but sooner rather than later your brass will premaurely fatigue, rendering them useless. the choices are yours, but for me, hot loads are not going to happen on purpose. i will load twoards the max for hunting, but not just practice. you should read the book "metalic cartridge reloading" by M.L. McPherson. it discusses overstressing various metals, and how fast they degrade after they have been overstressed. including all of your rifle (or hanguns) various components INCLUDING the barrel and action of your gun. it make perfect sense once you read it. the engineeers know how much of a safety factor to build into our guns, and once that has been surpassed, the gun is doomed to failure. not immediatly, but after a series of events. he explains in laymens terms how this actually happens. after you read this, it should give you a new outlook on overloading your cartridges. i USED to think more is better, but not in all cases! the people who write these books are experts! this is how they make their living. i am certain they often overload various cartridges to see how far they can go. but they have the benifit of special test equipment, and their face isnt 2 " from the bolt that shears off and takes off 1/2 of their head. if you had a Ferrari, and the engine designer told you the engine could take 9,000 rpm for 30 seconds before blowing up, how long would you hold it @ 9,000 rpm? if you answered 31 seconds, there is no hope for you. just buy a big life insurance policy so your wife and kids have something to live on!

 

[gru556]

The only thing I have noticed if you do a lot of research on a load it is confuseing as all get out Make up your own mind Remeber you only have 10 fingers

 

[Shoney]

there is no hope for you. just buy a big life insurance policy so your wife and kids have something to live on!

To h*ll with the insurance, the wife and kids can fend for themselves in your afterlife, and screw the dog as well. Take that money and buy more primers, powder and bullets. Push those loads, I think "He alway pushed things to the max!" would look good on your tombstone.

For those of you who just experience angina. or blood pressure rise of 10 pts, or this solved you constipation, or you grabbed for the mouse to write a poisonour response. SORRY. I was joking.

Have a wonderful fourth.

 

[USSR]

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=375160

Don