308win
Member
A recall petition is in order to remove this sheriff from office. If one can't protect one's property then where the hell was the law? Oh yes, I forgot, the law isn't responsible for protecting the individual (or his property).
Farmer chases a thief, catches a felony charge
- Thread starter repsychler
- Start date
- Status
Nortonics
Member
Read the story and heard the 911 call in the news this morning. Kudos to the city attorney - make an example out of the imbusil.
ArfinGreebly
Moderator Emeritus
horge, Deavis
Chuckle.
Robert is a man after my own heart.
Absurdity Amplification. It's kinda fun, once you get into it.
Sometimes you just gotta take it way out over the logic cliff.
Once the mind finds itself suspended over Wile E. Coyote Canyon, it will either make the adjustment or make a large impression when it hits bottom.
Thanx, Hairless, y'all do lighten a man's day.
Chuckle.
Robert is a man after my own heart.
Absurdity Amplification. It's kinda fun, once you get into it.
Sometimes you just gotta take it way out over the logic cliff.
Once the mind finds itself suspended over Wile E. Coyote Canyon, it will either make the adjustment or make a large impression when it hits bottom.
Thanx, Hairless, y'all do lighten a man's day.
Cosmoline
Member
Why was the shotgun unloaded?
Robert Hairless
Member
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2003
- Messages
- 3,983
horge:
I don't often say so but it hurts me very much to be accused of sarcasm when I express my beliefs. I always believe what I say when I say it. Try to be more trusting of other people. You will be a happier person.
ArfinGreebly:
You are a good person.
I don't often say so but it hurts me very much to be accused of sarcasm when I express my beliefs. I always believe what I say when I say it. Try to be more trusting of other people. You will be a happier person.
ArfinGreebly:
You are a good person.
Last edited:
Hammerxc
Member
I'm a little confused here. From what I read, the farmer wasn't on his own property, he walked over to his neighbors?
Liberal Gun Nut
Member
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2006
- Messages
- 388
When the threat is gone, the justification for use of force is gone. Chasing after someone who is not a threat in a wild car chase is crazy. I know it may upset locals there that a "criminal" is getting a misdemeanor and a "law-abiding citizen" is getting a felony, but this farmer is the criminal here. Those categories of "criminal" vs "law abiding" are changable in a decision in an instant.
larry_minn
Member
Ok there is more to story here then local news had (or web sites I found) I tried to wait for more info before slamming Sheriff/DA. I still feel they should have handled it at a much lower level then they did.
gunsmith
member
Nortronics
Umm, sure. Yup. Yeah.
You know, if you choose to call some one that....you could take a little time to look up the spelling.
Umm, sure. Yup. Yeah.
You know, if you choose to call some one that....you could take a little time to look up the spelling.
Last edited:
I know the types on this site love the old, rural, conservative white farmer types. And are heavily biased towards them. The facts be damned. But objectively, anyone who looks at this with a rational eye can see, the guy was in the wrong. It wasn't his property. He didn't even see the theft being committed.
All he saw was that a car which was in the neighborhood yesterday when a radiator went missing from a truck, was there again. He never even saw them commit any crime. So he decided to chase the car down, pulled them over, then threatened to "blow them away". The charge fits the facts.
Of course, the wise people here can flame away now. I reccomend the popular strategy of demonizing or dehumanizing the victims, to make the violation of their rights acceptable. I already heard someone suggest that they might be meth addicts too. Maybe keep going along those lines. Possibly start hinting it was crack baby? Who knows, anything is possible. Or that the $5 of gas might've been part of a plan to burn an orphanage, or a church, or something. Up to no good anyway, might as well take a pre-emptive strike before they start commiting real crimes. A good secondary strategy, almost as popular here, would be to skip reading the article, and just make things up to suit whatever you want to believe. A popular misinterpretation that's already started up a bit is that the farmer was just protecting his own property and trying to stop a crime in progress. Good ol' boy. Someone should probably go into a tirade about property rights and standing up to crime too.
Probably done with this thread, if all the responses are along those lines. Might participate if there's intelligent discussion.
All he saw was that a car which was in the neighborhood yesterday when a radiator went missing from a truck, was there again. He never even saw them commit any crime. So he decided to chase the car down, pulled them over, then threatened to "blow them away". The charge fits the facts.
Of course, the wise people here can flame away now. I reccomend the popular strategy of demonizing or dehumanizing the victims, to make the violation of their rights acceptable. I already heard someone suggest that they might be meth addicts too. Maybe keep going along those lines. Possibly start hinting it was crack baby? Who knows, anything is possible. Or that the $5 of gas might've been part of a plan to burn an orphanage, or a church, or something. Up to no good anyway, might as well take a pre-emptive strike before they start commiting real crimes. A good secondary strategy, almost as popular here, would be to skip reading the article, and just make things up to suit whatever you want to believe. A popular misinterpretation that's already started up a bit is that the farmer was just protecting his own property and trying to stop a crime in progress. Good ol' boy. Someone should probably go into a tirade about property rights and standing up to crime too.
Probably done with this thread, if all the responses are along those lines. Might participate if there's intelligent discussion.
horge
Member
Arfin,
I was hoping Deavis would see my post.
Robert,
A happier person?
Happiness is most richly obtained in providing it for others.
Providing happiness for others often entails enduring things that cause unhappiness.
Forgetfulness sometimes helps, I hear.
Now, where'd I set down that cold San Miguel?
{{insert appropriate smileys/emoticons liberally}}
I was hoping Deavis would see my post.
Robert,
A happier person?
Happiness is most richly obtained in providing it for others.
Providing happiness for others often entails enduring things that cause unhappiness.
Forgetfulness sometimes helps, I hear.
Now, where'd I set down that cold San Miguel?
{{insert appropriate smileys/emoticons liberally}}
Article from the local paper and letters to the editor.
http://www.northstarmedia.net/star/STARHome/3EE03415-964F-432F-B19D-776ABA5D6B3A.html
http://www.northstarmedia.net/star/STARHome/CEA2D50E-CBB8-47F0-A545-47BB08E81D73.html
http://www.northstarmedia.net/star/STARHome/3EE03415-964F-432F-B19D-776ABA5D6B3A.html
http://www.northstarmedia.net/star/STARHome/CEA2D50E-CBB8-47F0-A545-47BB08E81D73.html
agricola
Member
Sadly, it appears sane thought is in the minority:
i) it wasnt his property, he had not seen a crime being committed and he appears to have taken off on a mere coincidence. Where was the risk to himself?;
ii) in any case, he was involved in a seventy mile an hour car chase, which even with trained personnel doing the chasing, are inherently dangerous things, and thats without dialling and speaking to the Police on a cell phone during the chase:
He is lucky he didnt wipe himself, the suspects, or (worse) a random motorist out during his chase.
iii) the suspects are under no obligation to stop a vehicle for a private citizen (certainly thats the case in the UK, and I assume in that state as well because there is no mention of evasion / failing to stop / reckless endangerment type charges);
iv) He was stupid enough to say to Police whether he should blow the thieves away. You can think it, saying it on what is almost certainly a taped line will do you no favours.
I am sure that he thought he was doing the right thing, and maybe if the suspects had just murdered / raped / robbed someone he might have more justication, but this just seems like a complete snafu on his behalf.
i) it wasnt his property, he had not seen a crime being committed and he appears to have taken off on a mere coincidence. Where was the risk to himself?;
ii) in any case, he was involved in a seventy mile an hour car chase, which even with trained personnel doing the chasing, are inherently dangerous things, and thats without dialling and speaking to the Police on a cell phone during the chase:
He is lucky he didnt wipe himself, the suspects, or (worse) a random motorist out during his chase.
iii) the suspects are under no obligation to stop a vehicle for a private citizen (certainly thats the case in the UK, and I assume in that state as well because there is no mention of evasion / failing to stop / reckless endangerment type charges);
iv) He was stupid enough to say to Police whether he should blow the thieves away. You can think it, saying it on what is almost certainly a taped line will do you no favours.
I am sure that he thought he was doing the right thing, and maybe if the suspects had just murdered / raped / robbed someone he might have more justication, but this just seems like a complete snafu on his behalf.
308win
Member
I suppose if you are resigned to life as an entree.
This story comes down to how you paint the picture - and the farmer painted it wrong.
Instead of chasing down the criminals, he should have said that he was following the suspects so the police would know where they were. Sounds much better for the media and the local prosecutor.
The "should I blow them away" comment was just stupid, and should not have been made. A comment like that is way too inflammatory. As other posters have pointed out, there are better ways to ask about using deadly force.
As for citizens having power to enforce the law, I do not think it applies in this case. AFAIK, most states limit "citizen's arrest" to possible felonies, not misdemeanors. Hence the farmer was not within his "citizen's arrest" rights to stop someone for a misdemeanor.
I have no problem with citizen's arrest for felonies, but I do not think citizen's arrest should apply anytime the law is broken. Do we really want our fellow citizens trying to stop each other for jaywalking?
I think the farmer could have avoided all of this if he would have painted the picture differently. I think most of those arguing for the farmer are trying to see what was in his heart, not what came out of his mouth. I'll pass judging this guy - that is for a jury.
Instead of chasing down the criminals, he should have said that he was following the suspects so the police would know where they were. Sounds much better for the media and the local prosecutor.
The "should I blow them away" comment was just stupid, and should not have been made. A comment like that is way too inflammatory. As other posters have pointed out, there are better ways to ask about using deadly force.
As for citizens having power to enforce the law, I do not think it applies in this case. AFAIK, most states limit "citizen's arrest" to possible felonies, not misdemeanors. Hence the farmer was not within his "citizen's arrest" rights to stop someone for a misdemeanor.
I have no problem with citizen's arrest for felonies, but I do not think citizen's arrest should apply anytime the law is broken. Do we really want our fellow citizens trying to stop each other for jaywalking?
I think the farmer could have avoided all of this if he would have painted the picture differently. I think most of those arguing for the farmer are trying to see what was in his heart, not what came out of his mouth. I'll pass judging this guy - that is for a jury.
Here's the citizen arrest statute for MN:
http://ros.leg.mn/bin/getpub.php?pubtype=STAT_CHAP_SEC&year=current§ion=629.37
http://ros.leg.mn/bin/getpub.php?pubtype=STAT_CHAP_SEC&year=current§ion=629.37
Last edited:
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
razorburn, it's got nothing to do with "old, rural, conservative white farmer types".
Where old and rural comes in is my own perception of over-reaction by all concerned.
So a guy steals five bucks worth of gas. The farmer takes off to play Paladin. Whoopee. He runs his mouth. Whoopee. They wind up in a big mouth-music brannigan, but nobody's hurt. For all the babbble of "Woulda/coulda/shoulda" nobody got hurt.
IMO, the sheriff should have deliberately and on purpose thrown a screaming, foaming fit of butt-chewing of all concerned, scaring the bejeezus out of them. Along the lines of, "If you ever pull this dumb a stunt again, I'll BURY you under the jail!" And that's just for openers. Take the shotgun, "You can have it back when I think you've learned to behave!"
And then gone back to his office. As much justice would have been done as needed to be done.
Today's world, folks get too danged excited over very little.
Art
Where old and rural comes in is my own perception of over-reaction by all concerned.
So a guy steals five bucks worth of gas. The farmer takes off to play Paladin. Whoopee. He runs his mouth. Whoopee. They wind up in a big mouth-music brannigan, but nobody's hurt. For all the babbble of "Woulda/coulda/shoulda" nobody got hurt.
IMO, the sheriff should have deliberately and on purpose thrown a screaming, foaming fit of butt-chewing of all concerned, scaring the bejeezus out of them. Along the lines of, "If you ever pull this dumb a stunt again, I'll BURY you under the jail!" And that's just for openers. Take the shotgun, "You can have it back when I think you've learned to behave!"
And then gone back to his office. As much justice would have been done as needed to be done.
Today's world, folks get too danged excited over very little.
Art
agricola said:
Uhh, I do not know what the speed limit in your state is, but in my state it is 70. So let's not kid ourselves... he wasn't breaking any landspeed records. He was most likely following them and cornered them when they (perps) pulled over.
Also, I am tired of living in crime riden filth. No, I think we should pass a law....
passing laws... We need to repeal laws. I am beginning to agree more and more with Lazerous Long... The man was 76... Fine him, wag your finger at him, let him go home. No one was hurt. Everyone that is implying that he should go to jail is nutty.
EDIT - I had to check, but I figured that this was in Yankee land... In the south, we expect old people to be crazy... That is why you respect them and don't piss them off.
I designing women it was said once; "In the South, we do not hide our crazy people in closets. We are proud of them." I am happy to say, it is true.
gunsmith
member
Razorburn
I don't see it that way. I think most thr members are kind of urban.
I think the guy deserved a lecture by the local LE, nothing more.
For all the hype, no one is hurt & a skell got caught.
I don't see it that way. I think most thr members are kind of urban.
I think the guy deserved a lecture by the local LE, nothing more.
For all the hype, no one is hurt & a skell got caught.
SniperStraz
Member
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2006
- Messages
- 871
If he was in my yard stealing my gas I might have shot him simply because I don't know if he has a weapon and what else he has done that he doesn't want to get caught for. But if hes in my neighbor's yard I certainly would not confront him. I would simply call the police and maybe follow him in my car for as far as I could without reaching dangerous speeds. Not worth it for me to die. Even if had stolen from me. I'm not about to take a 1 ton hunk of metal out at 70mph in a residential (sp) area to get my $5 back. No sir.
There is absolutely no moral ground in shooting someone for stealing. Not in the law, not in the Bible.SniperStraz said:
Now, before I get flamed
If someone is stealing from you and in the process of apprehending/detaining them, they pull a gun (or otherwise threaten you), then shooting is justified.Robert Hairless
Member
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2003
- Messages
- 3,983
horge:
I'm glad that you see my point. Although I'm not sure that "happiness is most richly obtained in providing it to others" (which might be a reason why prostitution is illegal in most places in the United States) it sounds good and the sound might help you along in that direction. Happy people tend not to make ad hominem attacks--nor do they jump into threads for the sole purpose of making such attacks--because they recognize that it is not a way of providing happiness to others. Happy people also perceive the difference between sarcasm and irony. ArfinGreebly seems to be a happy person. I respect your devotion to San Miguel because he offers your road to happiness. Vaya con San Miguel. I accept your apology and wish you all the blessings that San Miguel can bestow upon you.
Perhaps, now that we are friends, you might want to turn your focus from me to the subject of this thread. I'm sure that you must have worthwhile thoughts to contribute about it.
I'm glad that you see my point. Although I'm not sure that "happiness is most richly obtained in providing it to others" (which might be a reason why prostitution is illegal in most places in the United States) it sounds good and the sound might help you along in that direction. Happy people tend not to make ad hominem attacks--nor do they jump into threads for the sole purpose of making such attacks--because they recognize that it is not a way of providing happiness to others. Happy people also perceive the difference between sarcasm and irony. ArfinGreebly seems to be a happy person. I respect your devotion to San Miguel because he offers your road to happiness. Vaya con San Miguel. I accept your apology and wish you all the blessings that San Miguel can bestow upon you.
Perhaps, now that we are friends, you might want to turn your focus from me to the subject of this thread. I'm sure that you must have worthwhile thoughts to contribute about it.
http://www.northstarmedia.net/star/STARHome/3EE03415-964F-432F-B19D-776ABA5D6B3A.html
Just to alleviate any doubt on who the real criminal is in this story...
Just to alleviate any doubt on who the real criminal is in this story...
Robert Hairless
Member
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2003
- Messages
- 3,983
Art Eatman:
Sane, sensible, and appropriate. Is the difference in approaches to this situation rooted in basic attitudes towards the role of law enforcement? When I was a lad (I've always wanted to be old enough to say that, and now I am) the cops I knew seemed to consider themselves part of the community and seemed to have a better sense of proportion. One of my friends, who is a cop in a tiny town, once remarked "I know most of the people here and I live with them."
Sane, sensible, and appropriate. Is the difference in approaches to this situation rooted in basic attitudes towards the role of law enforcement? When I was a lad (I've always wanted to be old enough to say that, and now I am) the cops I knew seemed to consider themselves part of the community and seemed to have a better sense of proportion. One of my friends, who is a cop in a tiny town, once remarked "I know most of the people here and I live with them."
- Status
