74 Year Old Man Nabs Thief Now Faces Charges

[ArchAngelCD]

I'm a little surprised some of the posts are saying he shouldn't protect his property and that of his neighbor. Leave it to the Police? I have heard too many times on this forum that we can't rely on the Police to protect us and they don't even have a duty to protect us.

I think he should be allowed to pull a gun on the BG while on his property but chasing him is a different story. Once the BG ran the danger was over so deadly force was no longer justified. Relaying the license plate number to the Police was all he should have done after the BG was no longer a threat.

 

[Autolite]

I think we're all missing the lesson here. In today's society, if your in need of some gasoline and you'd rather not have to pay for it just be sure to bring a three year old along with you ...

 

[Lucky]

In Canada common law recognizes 'hot pursuit' of crime which a citizen may arrest for. Where I am you can only arrest for minor offences (summary) like stealing gas if it is in regards to your property, or that of a person whom you are an agent for. So if his neighbour asked him to look after his farm, the farmer would be justified to arrest. Otherwise if you don't know your neighbour and you see punks graffiti his house, you should leave it be.

If you witness and indictable offence (serious) then you can arrest, anytime, of course. Peace officers have slightly more powers, they can arrest on reasonable suspicion (they see a man in a red shirt near where a store was robbed by a man in a red shirt), and they can arrest for any offence they witness.

And like I said, in Canada our law recognizes hot pursuit, so as long as you don't lose contact with the suspect you can chase him. If he ducks into a crown and then you see him a minute later you cannot arrest. Chasing in cars you'd be best to catch up and read the plate, then let it go.

If the suspect is injured by resisting arrest it is his fault.

 

[tanksoldier]

As much as I hate to do it, I have to agree with the sheriff on this one.

Take a shotgun while you check out somebody sneaking around your car? Yes.

Chase him down in your car when he runs? No.

 

[Zen21Tao]

I have to agree with the general consesus that this old timer over reacted quite a bit. I know that where my Father is from such an action 30-40 years ago would have gotten the thief a rump full of rock salt and no charges filed on either side. However, in todays society this has become excessive and unjustifiable (unless it happened deep in the country/hills where it is still 30 years ago).

Today even pointing a gun is considered deadly force and such force in only permisabble (under FL law atleast) in order to defend life and/or pervent a forcible felony. This was neither. I do think that it is worth understanding that this old timer may come from a different time and place where this may have been allowed. However, this doesn't excuse his actions.

 

[thales]

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OK, it was only five bucks worth of gas, and the thief had a three year old in the car, and the cops are usually more than fifteen minutes away, and even common thieves should not have shotguns pointed at them, and geezers should not drive at all, let alone chase thieves at 70 mph. Therefore, Mr. Englund should have just let the thief get clean away. Since he did not, they should toss him in the slammer and forget where the key is for endangering thieves and other innocent people.

Huh? Seriously people, there is a major crime problem in this country. One of the main causes of that crime problem is that people are allowed to get away with minor crimes. Then they get the idea that they can get away with anything so they commit major crimes. The underfunded and undermanned police are busy enough pursuing major criminals that they don't have time for the small fish. Does anyone seriously believe that the police would have diligently pursued an expensive, time-consuming investigation in this case for five bucks worth of gas?

The devout anti-gun types want you to to leave the defense of your life and property to the police. They want the police to be better armed than the people. They want the police to be slow in responding to crime so that there will be a perpetual need for more police funding. They want there to be a continual crime problem so that the people will tolerate ever more intrusion into their liberty. They want to see people like Mr. Englund portrayed as dangerous, lunatic, vigilante criminals in order to promote their gun contol, anti-liberty, statist agenda.

It appears that some of the police are quite willing to prosecute citizens for "taking the law into their own hands" or forcibly and unlawfully disarm them (remember New Orleans?) when the the citizens are sorely frustrated by the inability or unwillingness of the police to effectively control crime. Just remember that the power of the law and the government ultimately rests in the hands of the people. Forget that at your peril.


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[pacodelahoya]

Thanks Thales, I was feeling a little lonely.

 

[hrgrisso]

JUST FYI

"The local PD is (I am assuming) trained in pursuit tactics and high-speed driving and the like,"

Tactical, just FYI most police departments and academies have just enough money to spend on Firearms training, let alone "TACTICAL DRIVING" for cops. Even our federal government skimps when it comes to that. Many cops here in Arizona are springing out of their own pocket for high speed driving training, firearms training etc. Not to say they may be driving a vehicle made in this decade (which helps at high speeds) the cops are not necessarily more prepared to drive "fast."

Another thought, when did doing 70 become driving fast? I must be spending too much time on the freeway here... I usually have to do 85 just to keep from getting run over. So 70 seems a tad unexciting...

 

[Gun Geezer]

A thief is a thief

Not sure about his state laws, but here I believe the old guy should have just shot the theif dead. Stealing $5 is a good enough reason for me. That is why I really LIKE being on juries. I get to help out folks on the right side of the law.

 

[Geronimo45]

Did the guy know that there was a woman, 3-year-old in the car? Did he have Superman's x-ray vision to calculate how much gas was stolen?

Some calm thought could've saved the guy's bacon - but people who think they're in the right don't always spend time on calm thought.

 

[gunsmith]

dupe thread!

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=252149

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Two words:

"J-U-R-Y N-U-L-L-I-F-I-C-A-T-I-O-N"

 

[thexrayboy]

Most 74 year olds I've met shouldn't be driving period, they REALLY shouldn't be chasing people at 70mph while trying to shoot/talk on a cell phone

Perhaps, or perhaps not. Age is not always an impediment. Don't assume incompetence, senility or disability based soley on age. My dad is 72. He still runs marathons. I know a gentleman in his late 80's, he piloted a Mitchel bomber in WWII and still works 10 hour days as a volunteer in a local hospital. 50 years ago when this guy wasin his prime what he did was considered being a good citizen. Now days he's a pariah. Times have changed and definitely for the worse.

 

[CapnBald]

I'm getting close to 73 and until 2 years ago I raced outboard hydroplanes that ran very close to 70 MPH. At that time I gave it up, not because of my physical condition, but because of the financial side of it. Believe me, next to that, running 70 MPH in a car is a walk in the park. Years on many people don't make them doddering fools or weak in the body. I won't say that the man did the right thing or not, but punishing him will send the wrong message to lots of folks.

 

[Justin]

Closed as duplicate.