I love Win 231/HP 38 for both. With plated 124gr 9MM and plated 125gr 38spl I can even use the same charge weight.
favorite 9mm&38spl powder?
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ray15
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I also think you need to define how stout a load you are trying to create. In 9mm there are many excellent choices, with bullet weight and desired velocity driving the choice. By way of example you might choose one of these four powders depending on your goals. Obviously any of these can produce good loads outside these velocity ranges, but anecdotal evidence points to them having their comfort zones:
Titegroup - 'target' loads. (~1,000-1,050fps w/124gr.)
WSF - medium power loads (1,050-1,100fps)
CFE Pistol - upper-mid to full power loads (1,100-1,150fps)
BE-86 or Power Pistol - fire-breathing max loads (1,150+fps)
I use Titegroup and CFEP, and they are terrific for light and heavy loads, respectively. Titegroup works well across its (narrow) charge weight range for a given bullet, with CFEP liking to be loaded near max. And although at absolute max Titegroup can get fairly close in velocity in 9mm, CFEP is more accurate in those ranges.
Are they inherently more accurate than HP-38? I couldn't tell you, but have had little trouble developing accurate 9mm loads with Titegroup and CFEP.
Titegroup - 'target' loads. (~1,000-1,050fps w/124gr.)
WSF - medium power loads (1,050-1,100fps)
CFE Pistol - upper-mid to full power loads (1,100-1,150fps)
BE-86 or Power Pistol - fire-breathing max loads (1,150+fps)
I use Titegroup and CFEP, and they are terrific for light and heavy loads, respectively. Titegroup works well across its (narrow) charge weight range for a given bullet, with CFEP liking to be loaded near max. And although at absolute max Titegroup can get fairly close in velocity in 9mm, CFEP is more accurate in those ranges.
Are they inherently more accurate than HP-38? I couldn't tell you, but have had little trouble developing accurate 9mm loads with Titegroup and CFEP.
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LiveLife
Member
What bullets are you using and powder charge? I have found bullets used is a key factor in how accurate a load can be along with powder charge range depending on the burn rate.
As illustrated by target shot groups on post #18 and post #20, accuracy of a load is dependent on bullet, powder charge and OAL/COL consistency.
For maintaining testing consistency, I keep powder charge variance to less than .1 gr (.2 gr for flake powders like Promo, Target), OAL variance to less than .005" (usually less than .002"-.003") and taper crimp to .377" for .355" sized bullets and .378" for .3555"-.356" sized bullets.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
Just a note to add what I already posted. I'm going to be trying W572 in the 9mm soon. I think it will be perfect but only trying will tell.
bullseye308
Member
BE-86 is my new favorite, I have gone through 4 lbs of it this year in 9mm, 38, & 45. I have a load I like for the 38 & bullseye, and one in 357 with .bullseye, but BE-86 works good in those too. In the 9 it's hard to beat.
springer99
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Another powder that may work well for you, especially in 9mm, is HS-6. Burns very clean for me.
Captaingyro
Member
CFE-Pistol for the 9mm. Universal for .38 Special.
After extensive testing for a single all-around pistol powder I gave up, and instead settled on two, one for high pressure semi-auto loads and one for medium pressure. (With some rare exceptions I don't load any handgun rounds to max velocity anymore, going instead for accuracy). My go-to powder for higher pressure semi-auto loads is CFE-Pistol, which won the trifecta: good metering, moderate load volumes, and excellent accuracy, particularly in 9mm and .40 S&W.
Likewise, Universal won the competition for moderate pressure loads. I shoot magnum wheel guns, but usually load on the threshold between +P Special and Magnum velocities. Universal turned out to be the champ. It also does very well in .45 ACP loaded to around 800 fps with 200 grain semi-wadcutters.
After extensive testing for a single all-around pistol powder I gave up, and instead settled on two, one for high pressure semi-auto loads and one for medium pressure. (With some rare exceptions I don't load any handgun rounds to max velocity anymore, going instead for accuracy). My go-to powder for higher pressure semi-auto loads is CFE-Pistol, which won the trifecta: good metering, moderate load volumes, and excellent accuracy, particularly in 9mm and .40 S&W.
Likewise, Universal won the competition for moderate pressure loads. I shoot magnum wheel guns, but usually load on the threshold between +P Special and Magnum velocities. Universal turned out to be the champ. It also does very well in .45 ACP loaded to around 800 fps with 200 grain semi-wadcutters.
LiveLife
Member
How about velocity? Are you pushing W231/HP-38 at max charges or wanting lighter target loads?
If looking for below max target loads, you may obtain more accurate loads with faster burning powders like Titegroup, Bullseye, Target, etc.
If looking for higher velocity full-power loads, you may obtain accurate higher velocity loads with powders like BE-86, WSF, CFE Pistol, HS-6, AutoComp, etc.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
I'm a huge fan of HS-6 and I like it in the 9mm but I have found Longshot to be more accurate. If the excessive report of Longshot is unacceptable to you HS-6 Is a great choice. I can't wait until I have a chance to shoot the W572 loads I made up. It might replace both.
SC_Dave
Member
Win 231 here.
LiveLife
Member
W231 is same exact powder as HP-38 - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-different-labels.797388/page-4#post-10285765
The Bushmaster
Member
Depending on how picky you want to get. But in my [not so]humble opinion W-231 and HP38 are NOT the same. And according to my Lyman #48 they are not the same.
Well, Part of me says i carry 124/147gr +p at work so load something in the normal factory specs. Not necessarily +p but normal factory velocity so if i ever do get a bad situation im not used to light mouse fart loads.
Im loading hp-38 to 4.2-4.3gr now for RMR RN. seems the cycle the gun and accuracy is decent. Hodgdon says i can crank it to 4.8 but 4.4 is the most ive ever went and was always told don't beat the gun up unless its necessary like sending a few duty rounds down range for verification. I guess im more just looking for a more accurate powder. Right now im just shooting some amature idpa matches and sometimes they do courses where accuracy counts.
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Arkansas Paul
Member
HP-38/W231 for me as well.
I also like it for .40 and .45 acp.
It meters well, is versatile and is readily available where I live.
I've always been happy with it.
I also like it for .40 and .45 acp.
It meters well, is versatile and is readily available where I live.
I've always been happy with it.
gonoles_1980
Member
Depends on what kind of bang do you want? I load titegroup for my wife's 9mm, she likes lighter loads. I am currently loading bullseye in my 38spl. I don't like big powerful loads in it, I shoot it one handed. Titegroup seems to be able to handle lighter loads pretty well. Since you shoot a lighter grain bullet out of the 38spl, I'm guessing you like it a little snappy, try Power Pistol.
i like them to push more then flip. I got the light 38 bullets cause they were on sale, my next box will be 158gr.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
Please stop passing on bad and incorrect information. This has been litigated for many years now, they are exactly the same. Now that Hodgdon is distributing Winchester products they have admitted they are the same in writing. St Marks Powders who produce the product have said they come from the same spigot and different labels, again in writing. You should write both and ask them as I and many others have before you make incorrect statements.
As for the data being different, Winchester and Hodgdon did separate testing in different facilities with different methods and different lots of powder. All that explains the different data and while you are pointing to an old manual for evidence look on the Hodgdon Load Data Site and see identical data for the two.
Captaingyro
Member
They're the same. It would be pretty easy for you to just email Hodgdon customer service and ask them, rather than putting bad info out on the forum.
I'm a big fan of Power Pistol, used it in 9mm, .38 Spl and .45 acp with good results. If I couldn't find PP I would try Universal.
Power Pistol is a very clean burning powder. First time I tried it I was amazed at how clean the guns were at the end of a shooting session. I can't complain about accuracy.
Power Pistol is a very clean burning powder. First time I tried it I was amazed at how clean the guns were at the end of a shooting session. I can't complain about accuracy.
Dudedog
Contributing Member
Favorite for 9mm WSF, not as much vel as some in 9mm but works well from 1000fps to max with 124s, works well with 147s also.
For matches I load about 4.4 gr of WSF in 9mm giving about 1025-1035 fps with a 124/125.
To me it feels less snappy than HP38, more of a push, of course feel is subjective.
HP38 for 38/light-med .357
Current Hodgdon HP38/W231 data for a couple sample loads
9mm
115 GR. SPR GDHP Winchester 231 .355" 1.125" 4.7 1075 25,300 CUP 5.1 1167 28,100 CUP
115 GR. SPR GDHP Hodgdon HP-38 .355" 1.125" 4.7 1075 25,300 CUP 5.1 1167 28,100 CUP
.357mag
146 GR. SPR JHP Winchester 231 .357" 1.535" 6 1176 32,100 CUP 7.1 1330 42,200 CUP
146 GR. SPR JHP Hodgdon HP-38 .357" 1.535" 6 1176 32,100 CUP 7.1 1330 42,200 CUP
other listed loads are the same way,
sure seems to be the same stuff.
For matches I load about 4.4 gr of WSF in 9mm giving about 1025-1035 fps with a 124/125.
To me it feels less snappy than HP38, more of a push, of course feel is subjective.
HP38 for 38/light-med .357
Current Hodgdon HP38/W231 data for a couple sample loads
9mm
115 GR. SPR GDHP Winchester 231 .355" 1.125" 4.7 1075 25,300 CUP 5.1 1167 28,100 CUP
115 GR. SPR GDHP Hodgdon HP-38 .355" 1.125" 4.7 1075 25,300 CUP 5.1 1167 28,100 CUP
.357mag
146 GR. SPR JHP Winchester 231 .357" 1.535" 6 1176 32,100 CUP 7.1 1330 42,200 CUP
146 GR. SPR JHP Hodgdon HP-38 .357" 1.535" 6 1176 32,100 CUP 7.1 1330 42,200 CUP
other listed loads are the same way,
sure seems to be the same stuff.
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Toprudder
Member
If you want one powder for both, then BE86 for hot loads, or Titegroup for lighter loads.
I have found that BE86 actually downloads well for lower recoil loads in 9mm. For 38spl (a lower pressure round) it likes being loaded more towards max charge.
I have found that BE86 actually downloads well for lower recoil loads in 9mm. For 38spl (a lower pressure round) it likes being loaded more towards max charge.
vaalpens
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This is a very interesting thread and will definitely be following it. Lately I have found some accurate dependable loads in two other cartridges, but is still looking for a load in 9mm that I can label as my most accurate dependable load.
At this point my most accurate powders for 9mm are the following:
1) BE-86
2) Power Pistol
3) Longshot
4) AutoComp
5) HP-38
At this point my most accurate powders for 9mm are the following:
1) BE-86
2) Power Pistol
3) Longshot
4) AutoComp
5) HP-38
gonoles_1980
Member
I use titegroup in the 9mm for my wife's Ruger 9mm. She prefer's the lighter loads. I actually use titewad in my 9mm derringer. Makes a nice light load, and gives me a chance to use the titewad which I made a mistake buying. For my 38spl I use HP-38 or Bullseye. Right now using Bullseye. If I had my own 9mm pistol, I would try Pistol Powder in it.
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