Federal agents visit student for requesting library book
- Thread starter jsalcedo
- Start date
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spartacus2002
Member
Colonel said:
Jack-Booted Thug. I think it originated in a full-page NRA ad decrying ATF abuses that ran in USA Today?
Oh, OK.
Actually the term originated with Congressman John Dingell (D-MI), who commented in the early 1980s (while the Firearm Owners Protection Act was taking shape): "If I were to select a jackbooted group of fascists who were perhaps as large a danger to American society as I could pick today, I would pick BATF. They are a shame and a disgrace to our country."
Thanks for the clarification.
Actually the term originated with Congressman John Dingell (D-MI), who commented in the early 1980s (while the Firearm Owners Protection Act was taking shape): "If I were to select a jackbooted group of fascists who were perhaps as large a danger to American society as I could pick today, I would pick BATF. They are a shame and a disgrace to our country."
Thanks for the clarification.
island
Member
Up here in Canada you can have a copy of the little red book for the asking 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Book_(Liberal_Party_of_Canada)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Book_(Liberal_Party_of_Canada)
I can tell you (having used the loan program) that the info collected sounds right. SS# would be collected since that is your student # at virtually all universities.
Probably 95% of the materials requested are historical microfiche (sp?) of newspapers/magazines/gazetteers, geneological and historical registers, original documents and manuscripts, and patent or government papers. Just your basic research materials. A particular edition of any title would fall under this, as even every edition or translation of something like Moby Dick probably isn't in any one University library.
I had no idea .gov was intercepting these, or why they would want to.
How utterly worthless a pursuit, to waste time checking on a few graduate students who are filling out requests for study materials...
It is sad that this is so believable...
Taurus 617 CCW
Member
Wow, I guess I'm on their watch list too. I travelled to Indonesia for a mission's trip to rebuild after the tusnami hit last year. That in combination with my history of working at Nosler and reading The Bias Against Guns makes me a prime suspect.
jefnvk
Member
c_yeager said:
My SSN is my ID. There was a way to opt out, if you so wished, and get a random 9 digit number for your ID.
I call BS on this one. Withholding the name because they could ID you? How many people under those professors have been approached by feds because they checked out that book and had extensive travel?
Coming out would make him a media darling, pretty much guaranteeing anythign that happened to him would immediately be blamed on the feds.
GoRon
Member
Can you imagine the barely contained glee and righteous indignation of the mainstream media if this was true?
Last edited:
rock jock
Member
+100. Read the article, folks. This is all secondhand information.
CAnnoneer
Member
There is an easy way to test the veracity of the article. Just order yourself a few volumes of the "forbidden literature" and see if you have a visit. If you don't do so for fear of the visit, then the damage to you is already done.
jefnvk
Member
CAnnoneer said:
I have no foreign travel experience, though, except for a handful of daytrips to the Soo, Canada.
xd9fan
Member
May fear is that this is only a start of things to come.........but a another note....he had to give out his Social Security number to check out a book?????
Peet
Member
No SSN/UMass system
UMass Amherst (the largest campus) has not used SSN as student ID for a long time. I 'spect UMD (as well as Lowell, Boston, and the other campuses in the system) would have the same policy for the same reasons. My original student number was not my SSN, so they switched to SSN some time after '72.
UM staff IDs started out with non-SSN, switched to SSN (in the late 70s or 80s), then switched away from SSN in the 90s.
Heck, even the registry of motor vehicles abandoned the use of SSN in MA years ago.
I'd guess the use of SSN is for commomality -- any MA resident can sign out books from the UM library. (Unless the policy has changed in the last three years.)
Ptr
UMass Amherst (the largest campus) has not used SSN as student ID for a long time. I 'spect UMD (as well as Lowell, Boston, and the other campuses in the system) would have the same policy for the same reasons. My original student number was not my SSN, so they switched to SSN some time after '72.
UM staff IDs started out with non-SSN, switched to SSN (in the late 70s or 80s), then switched away from SSN in the 90s.
Heck, even the registry of motor vehicles abandoned the use of SSN in MA years ago.
I'd guess the use of SSN is for commomality -- any MA resident can sign out books from the UM library. (Unless the policy has changed in the last three years.)
Ptr
Camp David
member
jsalcedo said:
This seems like manufactured news by the liberal left to protest the Patriot Act; I have trouble believing this story and find it to be fiction in whole.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
xd9fan said:May fear is that this is only a start of things to come.........but a another note....he had to give out his Social Security number to check out a book?????
I doubt this as well. My wife, as well as several of her friends, are college students around the country. Most universities have switched over from using the SSN for a student ID number to generating a random number because of all the identity theft stuff.
I have no doubt a student would have to give his student ID to check a book out of the schools library. What's wrong with that?
If this school happens to still be using the SSN for student ID then shame on them, but a conspiracy that does not make.
Drizzt
Member
Federal agents' visit was a hoax
Federal agents' visit was a hoax
Student admits he lied about Mao book
By AARON NICODEMUS, Standard-Times staff writer
NEW BEDFORD -- The UMass Dartmouth student who claimed to have been visited by Homeland Security agents over his request for "The Little Red Book" by Mao Zedong has admitted to making up the entire story.
The 22-year-old student tearfully admitted he made the story up to his history professor, Dr. Brian Glyn Williams, and his parents, after being confronted with the inconsistencies in his account.
Had the student stuck to his original story, it might never have been proved false.
But on Thursday, when the student told his tale in the office of UMass Dartmouth professor Dr. Robert Pontbriand to Dr. Williams, Dr. Pontbriand, university spokesman John Hoey and The Standard-Times, the student added new details.
The agents had returned, the student said, just last night. The two agents, the student, his parents and the student's uncle all signed confidentiality agreements, he claimed, to put an end to the matter.
But when Dr. Williams went to the student's home yesterday and relayed that part of the story to his parents, it was the first time they had heard it. The story began to unravel, and the student, faced with the truth, broke down and cried.
It was a dramatic turnaround from the day before.
For more than an hour on Thursday, he spoke of two visits from Homeland Security over his inter-library loan request for the 1965, Peking Press version of "Quotations from Chairman Mao Tse-Tung," which is the book's official title.
His basic tale remained the same: The book was on a government watch list, and his loan request had triggered a visit from an agent who was seeking to "tame" reading of particular books. He said he saw a long list of such books.
In the days after its initial reporting on Dec. 17 in The Standard-Times, the story had become an international phenomenon on the Internet. Media outlets from around the world were requesting interviews with the students, and a number of reporters had been asking UMass Dartmouth students and professors for information.
The story's release came at a perfect storm in the news cycle. Only a day before, The New York Times had reported that President Bush had allowed the National Security Agency to conduct wiretaps on international phone calls from the United States without a warrant. The Patriot Act, created in the aftermath of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks to allow the government greater authority to monitor for possible terrorism activities, was up for re-authorization in Congress.
There was an increased sense among some Americans that the U.S. government was overstepping its bounds and trampling on civil liberties in order to thwart future attacks of terrorism. The story of a college student being questioned for requesting a 40-year old book on Communism fed right into that atmosphere.
In Thursday's retelling of the story, the student added several new twists, ones that the professors and journalist had not heard before. The biggest new piece of information was an alleged second visit of Homeland Security agents the previous night, where two agents waited in his living room for two hours with his parents and brother while he drove back from a retreat in western Massachusetts. He said he, the agents, his parents and his uncle all signed confidentiality agreements that the story would never be told.
He revealed the agents' names: one was Nicolai Brushaev or Broshaev, and the other was simply Agent Roberts. He said they were dressed in black suits with thin black ties, "just like the guys in Men in Black."
He had dates and times and places, things he had signed and sent back in order to receive the book. The tale involved his twin brother, who allegedly requested the book for him at UMass Amherst; his uncle, a former FBI attorney who took care of all the paperwork; and his parents, who signed those confidentiality agreements.
But by now, the story had too many holes. Every time there was a fact to be had that would verify the story -- providing a copy of the confidentiality agreements the student and agent signed, for example -- there would be a convenient excuse. The uncle took all the documents home to Puerto Rico, he said.
What was the address of the Homeland Security building in Boston where he and his uncle visited the agency and actually received a copy of the book? It was a brick building, he said, but he couldn't remember where it was, or what was around it.
He said he met a former professor at the mysterious Homeland Security building who had requested a book on bomb-making, along with two Ph.D. students and a one pursuing a master's degree who had also been stopped from accessing books. The student couldn't remember their names, but the former professor had appeared on the Bill O'Reilly show on Fox News recently, he said.
The former professor's appearance on The O'Reilly Factor did not check out.
Other proof was sought.
Were there any copies of the inter-library loan request? No.
Did the agents leave their cards, or any paperwork at your home? No.
His brother, a student at Amherst, told Dr. Williams that he had never made the inter-library loan request on behalf of his brother.
While The Standard-Times had tape recorded the entire tale on Thursday, the reporter could not reach the student for comment after he admitted making up the story. Phone calls and a note on the door were not returned.
At the request of the two professors and the university, The Standard-Times has agreed to withhold his name.
During the whole episode, the professors said that while they wanted to protect the student from the media that were flooding their voice mails and e-mail boxes seeking comment and information, they also wanted to know: Was the story true?
"I grew skeptical of this story, as did Bob, considering the ramifications," Dr. Williams said yesterday. "I spent the last five days avoiding work, and the international media, and rest, trying to get names and dates and facts. My investigation eventually took me to his house, where I began to investigate family matters. I eventually found out the whole thing had been invented, and I'm happy to report that it's safe to borrow books."
Dr. Williams said he does not regret bringing the story to light, but that now the issue can be put to rest.
"I wasn't involved in some partisan struggle to embarrass the Bush administration, I just wanted the truth," he said.
Dr. Pontbriand said the entire episode has been "an incredible experience and exposure for something a student had said." He said all along, his only desire had been to "get to the bottom of it and get the truth of the matter."
"When it blew up into an international story, our only desire was to interview this student and get to the truth. We did not want from the outset to declare the student a liar, but we wanted to check out his story," he said. "It was a disastrous thing for him to do. He needs attention, he needs care. I feel for the kid. We have great concern for this student's health and welfare."
Mr. Hoey, the university spokesman, said the university had been unable to substantiate any of the facts of the story since it first was reported in The Standard-Times on Dec. 17.
As to any possible repercussions against the student, Mr. Hoey said, "We consider this to be an issue to be handled faculty member to student. We wouldn't discuss publicly any other action. Student discipline is a private matter."
Dr. Williams said the whole affair has had one bright point: The question of whether it is safe for students to do research has been answered.
"I can now tell my students that it is safe to do research without being monitored," he said. "With that hanging in the air like before, I couldn't say that to them."
The student's motivation remains a mystery, but in the interview on Thursday, he provided a glimpse.
"When I came back, like wow, there's this circus coming on. I saw my cell phone, and I see like, wow, I have something like 75 messages and like something like 87 missed calls," he said. "Wow, I was popular. I usually get one or probably two a week and that's about it, and I usually pick them up."
http://www.southcoasttoday.com/daily/12-05/12-24-05/a01lo719.htm
Federal agents' visit was a hoax
Student admits he lied about Mao book
By AARON NICODEMUS, Standard-Times staff writer
NEW BEDFORD -- The UMass Dartmouth student who claimed to have been visited by Homeland Security agents over his request for "The Little Red Book" by Mao Zedong has admitted to making up the entire story.
The 22-year-old student tearfully admitted he made the story up to his history professor, Dr. Brian Glyn Williams, and his parents, after being confronted with the inconsistencies in his account.
Had the student stuck to his original story, it might never have been proved false.
But on Thursday, when the student told his tale in the office of UMass Dartmouth professor Dr. Robert Pontbriand to Dr. Williams, Dr. Pontbriand, university spokesman John Hoey and The Standard-Times, the student added new details.
The agents had returned, the student said, just last night. The two agents, the student, his parents and the student's uncle all signed confidentiality agreements, he claimed, to put an end to the matter.
But when Dr. Williams went to the student's home yesterday and relayed that part of the story to his parents, it was the first time they had heard it. The story began to unravel, and the student, faced with the truth, broke down and cried.
It was a dramatic turnaround from the day before.
For more than an hour on Thursday, he spoke of two visits from Homeland Security over his inter-library loan request for the 1965, Peking Press version of "Quotations from Chairman Mao Tse-Tung," which is the book's official title.
His basic tale remained the same: The book was on a government watch list, and his loan request had triggered a visit from an agent who was seeking to "tame" reading of particular books. He said he saw a long list of such books.
In the days after its initial reporting on Dec. 17 in The Standard-Times, the story had become an international phenomenon on the Internet. Media outlets from around the world were requesting interviews with the students, and a number of reporters had been asking UMass Dartmouth students and professors for information.
The story's release came at a perfect storm in the news cycle. Only a day before, The New York Times had reported that President Bush had allowed the National Security Agency to conduct wiretaps on international phone calls from the United States without a warrant. The Patriot Act, created in the aftermath of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks to allow the government greater authority to monitor for possible terrorism activities, was up for re-authorization in Congress.
There was an increased sense among some Americans that the U.S. government was overstepping its bounds and trampling on civil liberties in order to thwart future attacks of terrorism. The story of a college student being questioned for requesting a 40-year old book on Communism fed right into that atmosphere.
In Thursday's retelling of the story, the student added several new twists, ones that the professors and journalist had not heard before. The biggest new piece of information was an alleged second visit of Homeland Security agents the previous night, where two agents waited in his living room for two hours with his parents and brother while he drove back from a retreat in western Massachusetts. He said he, the agents, his parents and his uncle all signed confidentiality agreements that the story would never be told.
He revealed the agents' names: one was Nicolai Brushaev or Broshaev, and the other was simply Agent Roberts. He said they were dressed in black suits with thin black ties, "just like the guys in Men in Black."
He had dates and times and places, things he had signed and sent back in order to receive the book. The tale involved his twin brother, who allegedly requested the book for him at UMass Amherst; his uncle, a former FBI attorney who took care of all the paperwork; and his parents, who signed those confidentiality agreements.
But by now, the story had too many holes. Every time there was a fact to be had that would verify the story -- providing a copy of the confidentiality agreements the student and agent signed, for example -- there would be a convenient excuse. The uncle took all the documents home to Puerto Rico, he said.
What was the address of the Homeland Security building in Boston where he and his uncle visited the agency and actually received a copy of the book? It was a brick building, he said, but he couldn't remember where it was, or what was around it.
He said he met a former professor at the mysterious Homeland Security building who had requested a book on bomb-making, along with two Ph.D. students and a one pursuing a master's degree who had also been stopped from accessing books. The student couldn't remember their names, but the former professor had appeared on the Bill O'Reilly show on Fox News recently, he said.
The former professor's appearance on The O'Reilly Factor did not check out.
Other proof was sought.
Were there any copies of the inter-library loan request? No.
Did the agents leave their cards, or any paperwork at your home? No.
His brother, a student at Amherst, told Dr. Williams that he had never made the inter-library loan request on behalf of his brother.
While The Standard-Times had tape recorded the entire tale on Thursday, the reporter could not reach the student for comment after he admitted making up the story. Phone calls and a note on the door were not returned.
At the request of the two professors and the university, The Standard-Times has agreed to withhold his name.
During the whole episode, the professors said that while they wanted to protect the student from the media that were flooding their voice mails and e-mail boxes seeking comment and information, they also wanted to know: Was the story true?
"I grew skeptical of this story, as did Bob, considering the ramifications," Dr. Williams said yesterday. "I spent the last five days avoiding work, and the international media, and rest, trying to get names and dates and facts. My investigation eventually took me to his house, where I began to investigate family matters. I eventually found out the whole thing had been invented, and I'm happy to report that it's safe to borrow books."
Dr. Williams said he does not regret bringing the story to light, but that now the issue can be put to rest.
"I wasn't involved in some partisan struggle to embarrass the Bush administration, I just wanted the truth," he said.
Dr. Pontbriand said the entire episode has been "an incredible experience and exposure for something a student had said." He said all along, his only desire had been to "get to the bottom of it and get the truth of the matter."
"When it blew up into an international story, our only desire was to interview this student and get to the truth. We did not want from the outset to declare the student a liar, but we wanted to check out his story," he said. "It was a disastrous thing for him to do. He needs attention, he needs care. I feel for the kid. We have great concern for this student's health and welfare."
Mr. Hoey, the university spokesman, said the university had been unable to substantiate any of the facts of the story since it first was reported in The Standard-Times on Dec. 17.
As to any possible repercussions against the student, Mr. Hoey said, "We consider this to be an issue to be handled faculty member to student. We wouldn't discuss publicly any other action. Student discipline is a private matter."
Dr. Williams said the whole affair has had one bright point: The question of whether it is safe for students to do research has been answered.
"I can now tell my students that it is safe to do research without being monitored," he said. "With that hanging in the air like before, I couldn't say that to them."
The student's motivation remains a mystery, but in the interview on Thursday, he provided a glimpse.
"When I came back, like wow, there's this circus coming on. I saw my cell phone, and I see like, wow, I have something like 75 messages and like something like 87 missed calls," he said. "Wow, I was popular. I usually get one or probably two a week and that's about it, and I usually pick them up."
http://www.southcoasttoday.com/daily/12-05/12-24-05/a01lo719.htm
DRZinn
Member
Why doesn't this surprise me?
Phantom Warrior
Member
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2003
- Messages
- 1,073
I guess it's all moot now, but I was going to add that both the University of Minnesota system and the University of North Dakota use their own numbering system for Student ID numbers.
And seriously, Mao's Little Red Book? That was the other thing that sounded fishy to me. Fifty years ago maybe, but today everyone is worried about terrorists.
shermacman
Member
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2002
- Messages
- 1,751
Happy now, Moonbats?
The story was a hoax, a John Fraud Kerry lie, a Ted Kennedy (D-Chivas) deceit, a Howard Dean meltdown. And of course it was trumpeted by the LameStreamMedia as yet another assault on President George W. Bush and the Patriot Act.
You got your chain yanked, again. And you barked like Pavlov's dog.
The story was a hoax, a John Fraud Kerry lie, a Ted Kennedy (D-Chivas) deceit, a Howard Dean meltdown. And of course it was trumpeted by the LameStreamMedia as yet another assault on President George W. Bush and the Patriot Act.
You got your chain yanked, again. And you barked like Pavlov's dog.
JJpdxpinkpistols
Member
shermacman said:
Got a little agression goin there, Shermacman?
Jeez. Kid played a hoax. AP reported it...it showed up on a LOT of sites, not just this one...
I find the accusation that John Kerry, Ted Kennedy and Howard Dean met with the kid to plan this one out a little silly. Almost as much as the original story.
:banghead:
Even if it was a hoax which I'm glad it is ....it's good to take these scenarios
apart and discuss them.
The government has been getting warrants and seizing library records around the country for about 3 years now. Its not too far fetched to be concerned about agents questioning you about a bin laden book or a flight manual for a 747.
apart and discuss them.
The government has been getting warrants and seizing library records around the country for about 3 years now. Its not too far fetched to be concerned about agents questioning you about a bin laden book or a flight manual for a 747.
BuddyOne
Member
Source, Please
The government has been getting warrants and seizing library records around the country for about 3 years now. Its not too far fetched to be concerned about agents questioning you about a bin laden book or a flight manual for a 747.[/QUOTE]
jsalcedo, do you have a non-blog source for this statement?
Thanks,
Buddy
The government has been getting warrants and seizing library records around the country for about 3 years now. Its not too far fetched to be concerned about agents questioning you about a bin laden book or a flight manual for a 747.[/QUOTE]
jsalcedo, do you have a non-blog source for this statement?
Thanks,
Buddy
http://www.ala.org/Template.cfm?Sec...Management/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=21654
Looks like the ACLU was successful in blocking federal agents from combing through library records on fishing expeditions. They must have judicial review now. Of course many judges are more than happy to grant these warrants.
BuddyOne
Member
That's What I Thought...
The ALA site refers to no specific incident nor does it state that examination of library usage began on any particular date. It does refer to its own updating of ethical issues since 9/11 and the passage of the Patriot Act, but it also mentions state and local authorities as well as FBI inquiries. The site also makes it clear that obscenity and child pornography is a component of the authorities' interest.
I don't know that books about OBL or 747's would trigger an official inquiry. I think that the likelihood is far fetched...
Buddy
The ALA site refers to no specific incident nor does it state that examination of library usage began on any particular date. It does refer to its own updating of ethical issues since 9/11 and the passage of the Patriot Act, but it also mentions state and local authorities as well as FBI inquiries. The site also makes it clear that obscenity and child pornography is a component of the authorities' interest.
I don't know that books about OBL or 747's would trigger an official inquiry. I think that the likelihood is far fetched...
Buddy
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