Feds (FBI & ATF) tracking gun purchases?!?!?!

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wacki

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Summary:

It looks to me as if the Feds are tracking gun ownership en mass. It may not be everyone, but it's clearly in the millions.


Full details:

I came across this wired article that discusses what guns the fed's do and don't track. Here's the good news:

The Firearms Owners Protection Act of 1986 prohibits the feds from maintaining one. But there are a few exceptions that give law enforcement and intelligence and counterterrorism agents some visibility into private small-arms stockpiles.
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Here's David Hardy's writeup on the Firearm Owners Protection Act.

Bad news #1: The Terrorist Laws

First, when someone seeks to buy a gun or rifle from a licensed gun dealer, federally mandated background checks will pick up if the suspected purchaser is on a terrorism watchlist. If so, his or her name will get sent to the FBI’s Terrorist Screening Center. ..... the purchaser won’t know that his name resides in the data banks at the Terrorist Screening Center. However, people on terror watchlists can buy guns.
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In 2009 there were a million names on the terrorist watch list. I have no clue how many people are on it now. At last check it was growing by 20,000 people a month.

Source:
ACLU
USA Today

Bad news #2: The "Border" Laws - Tracking People that buy 2+ guns in 5 days

Someone seeking to buy two or more of certain kinds of rifles — semi-automatics; calibers higher than .22; detachable magazines — will attract the attention of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) along four southwest states bordering Mexico. So will someone who tries to buy two or more handguns within five days, wherever the sale occurs. The ATF can retain information on those individuals for up to two years, if there’s no active investigation resulting from it.
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The National Association for Gun rights says:

Although the BATFE claims that this requirement only applies to states along the southern border, the actual published rule has no geographic limitation. ... That means they’re tracking the sale of shotguns and rifles across the country.
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The house passed a bill to block ATF using this power outside of those four states (see NRA-ILA) but I don't know what happened with it in the Senate or if Obama signed it.


What I do know is this one died:
On march Mar 14, 2011
S. 570 (112th): A bill to prohibit the Department of Justice from tracking and cataloguing the purchases of multiple rifles ...
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Anyone got a good grasp of what is going on? How many people they are tracking?
 
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HOW MANY people are on the "terrorism watch list"???????!!!!! Holy crap. That's scary police state numbers......
 
20,000 added each month? That's 240,000 per year for the last 3 years or 720,000. One has to wonder where those names are coming from.
 
MicroTecniqs said:
20,000 added each month? That's 240,000 per year for the last 3 years or 720,000. One has to wonder where those names are coming from.
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Your favorite LGSs! They routinely have ATF agents come-in and photocopy their books. It's just what they do! My brother works at WM in sporting goods, and they come-in all the time to copy records!

How does it feel to be treated like a criminal, instead of the criminal feeling empowered to jump into action soon, if bans come to pass?

I think if you own an evil black rifle, you are on the list, if there is a paper trail.
 
Your favorite LGSs! They routinely have ATF agents come-in and photocopy their books. It's just what they do! My brother works at WM in sporting goods, and they come-in all the time to copy records!

How does it feel to be treated like a criminal, instead of the criminal feeling empowered to jump into action soon, if bans come to pass?

I think if you own an evil black rifle, you are on the list, if there is a paper trail.
Click to expand...
ATF agents are not routinely making copies of my books. As an FFL I've had 3 compliance inspections so far. The only photocopies of any of my paperwork that anyone from ATF has ever taken were of F2's and F3's where the data on them didn't match what the inspector had on her report of what was in the NFRTR. In each case my documents were correct, the ATF's were not.

Otherwise we have had one subpoena, properly signed by a judge, for the 4473's of one specific person. The FBI agent used a portable scanner that he brought with him to get copies of the appropriate documents.
 
We need to encourage them to add as many names as possible - it will crater under it's own weight.

They can't effectively track 100,000, so give them five or ten million!
 
Do remember that the watchlist is global, not just U.S.

Still, that's something like 0.029% of the world's population on "the list".
 
Trying to keep all of this stuff in one place.

A federal appeals court panel Friday unanimously upheld an Obama administration requirement that dealers in southwestern border states report when customers buy multiple high-powered rifles.

....

The ATF says the requirement is needed to help stop the flow of guns to Mexican drug cartels.

Judge Karen LeCraft Henderson, writing for the three-judge appeals panel, said the agency was within its legal authority when it issued the demand letter. She said that that the Gun Control Act of 1968 "unambiguously authorizes the demand letter." Henderson, who was appointed by Republican President George H.W. Bush, was joined by Judges Judith W. Rogers, an appointee of Democratic President Bill Clinton, and Harry T. Edwards, an appointee of Democratic President Jimmy Carter.
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Read more: http://www.myfoxny.com/story/22469110/court-upholds-rifle-sales-reporting-requirement#ixzz2UzF13OUx


If you want to comment on this specific post please go here:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=718135

If you want to comment on the general trend ... that's what this thread is for.
 
Teachu2 says the system will crater under its own weight. No, the result will be delays for every purchase. Wonder if Congress, in its infinite wisdom, will change the law to prohibit transfers UNTIL an approval is sent to the seller? :cuss:
 
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