First 38 spl/357 reloads - a couple of questions

[bison]

Hi -

I just got back from the range after shooting my first 38 spl and 357 mag loads - still have all my fingers and had a lot of fun! While I plan on getting some Unique and 2400 later this week, I loaded with some Clays I had sitting around (2.8 and 3.0 gns for 38 spl, 3.2, 3.5, and 4.0 for 357 - all well below max). Bullets are MO 158gn LWSC's, (both the 38 and 357 types with different hardness). Gun is Ruger GP100 6".

A couple of questions:

- How much of a crimp should I use? The Lee instructions said to turn the know anywhere from 1/2 to 1 full turn after it touched the shell. I used 3/4 for no particular reason and they looked fine.

- I noticed that all the 38 loads shot nicely and felt about like some factory UMC that I had as well. However, the 357 loads were far gentler and quieter than factory 357, I'm wondering why? Not that I particularly care about big bangs, more curious than anything.

- Is leading easy to spot? I noticed a bunch of junk in the cylinder from the shorter rounds but nothing visible in the barrel.

My plan is to try the Unique for 38 spl and 2400 for 357.

Thanks!

 

[Walkalong]

With lead, crimp to fill the crimp groove. For those light loads with a fast powder a heavy crimp is not needed. Just a nice moderate crimp to fit in the crimp groove. I like Clays for light loads in .38 & .357 cases. I load a little hotter than those loads, but still light.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=5871460&postcount=30

 

[Nomad]

As far as crimp goes, I'd take a caliper with me the next time I shoot. Load six but measure the oal of the last round your going to shoot. Shoot 5 rounds and see if the sixth one (the one you measured before loading) is the same as it was. If the bullet moved out from recoil you need more crimp. The 38 spl really needs very little crimp.
You'll notice more blast from 2400 then Clays.
I can spot leading but I'm not sure how to tell you to spot it. You wont get leading in the cylinder you'll find it in the bore. Maybe someone else can articulate better than me.

 

[Hondo 60]

Sounds like your crimp is OK. For revolvers you want a roll crimp like your doing.
(semi autos use a very mild taper crimp)

 

[billybob44]

.38/.357 loads..

Bison you're on the right track. I have not used Clays. I use Bullseye, HP-38/WW-231, AA #2, and Unique on .38 rounds. I like Unique, 2400, and H-110 on the .357Mag. loads.
As stated before a light/med. crimp is all that is needed on the .38Spl. loads. A firm roll crimp is best on the higher pressure .357 loads. This is especially true on the H-110/WW-296 loads in the .357.
Leading on my guns kind of looks like streaks down the bore after a patch with solvent has been used.
Your bullet hardness and diameter will tell you what kind of speed you can load your lead bullets at to be lead free.

 

[Waywatcher]

Don't try Unique!

It'll be a leading disaster. I have almost the exact same set-up as you; a GP100, MO bullets, and got terrible leading with Unique.

2400 works great though!

For .38s I have been using Trail Boss and loving it.

Both Trail Boss and 2400 fill the case nicely; it's not possible to double charge.

How'd the Clays work for you?

Whatever you do, don't get Unique!

 

[Ol` Joe]

Is leading easy to spot? I noticed a bunch of junk in the cylinder from the shorter rounds but nothing visible in the barrel.

Be aware firing 38 spcl in a 357 chamber can cause some leading build up at the very end of the chamber between the shorter 38 case and the "lip at the end of the chamber. This can cause a 357 rd to be a jam fit at the crimp if it isn`t cleaned out. This can cause pressure to rise if the case can`t release the bullet normally. A wire brush with a touch of copper "chore girl" wrapped on it, and rotated in the chamber is sufficient.
I`d shoot the mag rds 1st if you take both out at the same time and follow up with the shorter 38s...JMO

 

[Walkalong]

Don't try Unique!

It'll be a leading disaster.

Unique was not the problem when you got leading. Guaranteed.

Millions of rounds with lead and Unique have been shot over the years with little to no leading.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

If you're happy with the .38 Special ammo you made with Clays stick with it. Clays is way too fast a powder for making .357 Magnum ammo. To get anywhere near the velocities associated with a .357 Magnum you will have to exceed the SAAMI pressure limits by a great deal using Clays. You will need to load a much slower powder like 2400 to make .357 Magnum ammo anywhere near the factory ammo you are used to shooting. Also, you noticed much less flash and noise because the loads made with Clays are very light loads compared to factory ammo because it's such a fast powder.

 

[Waywatcher]

Unique was not the problem when you got leading. Guaranteed.

Millions of rounds with lead and Unique have been shot over the years with little to no leading.

It was the only variable I changed, and the leading went away. Same gun, same primer, same bullet.

Also, I ran tests to see if I could get Unique to work:

I tried different bullets; swaged, BHN 12, and BHN 18. All three leaded.
I tired different bullet sizes; both .357 and .358. Both Leaded.
I tried different powder charges within Unique; 4.5, 4.7, 5.0, 5.2. All leaded.
I tired different amount of crimps; light, medium and heavy roll crimps. All leaded.

Nothing I did would prevent the ferocious leading I got with Unique, except changing powder. Trail Boss and 2400 have not given me any considerable amount of leading. I'm still new at this reloading thing, but I gave Unique what I think is a fair shake, and I couldn't get it to work. I get more leading in 6 shots of Unique than I do from 100 shots with Trail Boss.

Did I get a bad lot of Unique?

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I'm not the one to comment on Unique, I don't like it either. I would much rather use Universal in place of Unique. Universal is a ballistic twin to Unique without all the dirt and it meters well.

 

[Glock20]

If you get a chance, give Win 231 -- HP-38 a try for 38 Special. I've used 158gr lswc
with 3.7gr and a 1.475 OAL and they were very accurate out of a 4" GP-100. I think this is going to be my go to powder for 38 Special lead loads.

As Archangel said, Universal is another good choice.

Alliant 2400 is good for 357 magnum loaded a bit on the hot side. You will get some flash, but with 158gr XTP's it is accurate.

With 38 Special & 357 mag, there are so many bullet / powder combinations it would keep a guy loading for a long time before he ran out of options.

 

[Fishslayer]

I would suggest using the 2400 with a 158gr bullet. That's what it's for. Run with the Big Dogs! You'll love the fireball.

For 125gr boolits I use Bullseye. There's enough anecdotal evidence linking slow powder + light bullets to forcing cone & flame cutting issues that I don't want to take any chances...

.38 & .38+P don't really need any crimp. I use a half turn on the LFCD (taper crimp die) and call it good.

Do some reading on the roll crimp. 2400 requires a good crimp for best combustion, and at Magnum levels it's necessary to keep the bullets from moving in the cases. Look at pictures. Overcrimp is pretty obvious. I had an experienced handloader eyeball some of my first finished rounds. Once you know what to look for, it's not hard.