Leary of 38 SPL in 357 mag. help

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BillCh

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Greetings all,

I am the proud new owner of a nice looking, apparently lightly used, Colt revolver in .357 Mag. I appears to be in fine shape both cosmetically and mechanically. Its a Python with a 4" barrel.

I'm really jones'n to get to the range and give it a go. I want to start out with a light-ish load of some sort. I've got some 110, 125, and 158 gr. jacketed bullets that seem suitable according to my books. For powder, I have Bullseye, 231, 2400, and I picked up a pound of Unique this afternoon. These powders are all listed too. I've got a brand new bag of Win. 38 SPL and a bag of new 357 mag. brass. The Bullseye and 231 loads just don't sound right. The 2400 apparently doesn't do well in light charges.

I've loaded thousands of 45 ACP's and quite a few 40 S&W's. Over the last several years I've gotten into loading for precision rifles. I have done thousands of those. But I've only loaded up about a hundred for the 357 Mag. and those were for a friend who likes 'em full nuclear.

I've got everything I need to load up some power-puff ammo for my new-to-me Colt, except for confidence.

What is the best way to work up to a full power load with the components I've got? What is a good load to use in the 38 SPL cases? Is there such a thing as a 'moderate full', 357 magnum load? I know this question may sound funny but are the 38 SPL and 38 SPL +P loads in my manuals really OK in this revolver?

I don't want to bust up my new rig, or me.

Thanks
 
Any load for .38 Special, and .38 Special +P will work just fine in your Python. They're strong handguns and will digest any of those loads that are listed in your manuals.

Hope this helps.

Fred
 
I shoot a lot of 158gr lead SWC with 4.5gr Unique or 6.5 BlueDot in 38 cases. I'd drop down at least 1/2 a grain to start but they are powder puff as I want.
The 38 spcl. loads should all shoot fine in your 357.
 
231 is a standard for special loads. And 2400 does a lot better loaded down compared to H110. I haven't had a chance to load up any 2400 as I just bought some. I wanted to see if it's a little more versatile then H110. All the powders you have will work just fine. Load them up and shoot them.


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I've loaded 2400 for many years in my .357mags. I've never seen any problem with loading it around the minimum load data that's advertised.
The only thing you need to do with 2400 is have a lot of neck tension and a good crimp.
It needs to build a lot of pressure to burn right but it is really good powder in .357 magnums, and will work at minimum load data very well.

I've also used with 158gr hard cast
6.5gr of unique-
12 gr of 2400- use really good crimp
16gr of 2400- use really good crimp
13 gr of H110- use really good crimp
4.7 gr of titegroup- a little to light for me
8.3 gr of power pistol- very accurate-my favorite load right now.

I won't shoot 125 gr. bullets in my .357mags (S&W) so I have no loads for them.
 
38 spec mid-range loads, use bullseye or 231, Unique. For the 357 at full power, use 2400. No need to load the 38's near maximum when the handgun chambers/fires the 357 mag.
 
Any .38 SPL load within the powder-manufacturer's specs will be fine in your .357.

Here is the only rub with shooting .38 SPL in .357 Mag.:
You will want to anticipate that the shorter .38 SPL case will leave a ring of fouling in the cylinders. This ring may cause .357 cases to suffer difficult extraction. Plan on extra cleaning effort on the cylinders if you shoot .38 SPL in your .357.

.357 brass is abundant, and I handload.
If I need a hot load, I use .357 cases.
If I need a light load, I STILL use .357 cases.
I see no reason to make extra aggravation and extra work.
 
W.E.G. said:
Here is the only rub with shooting .38 SPL in .357 Mag.:
You will want to anticipate that the shorter .38 SPL case will leave a ring of fouling in the cylinders. This ring may cause .357 cases to suffer difficult extraction. Plan on extra cleaning effort on the cylinders if you shoot .38 SPL in your .357.
Click to expand...
Not only will it leave a carbon ring, but it can scar the cylinder permanently.

Any .38SPL load is perfectly safe since the .357 is rated for nearly 2x the pressure. Load them in .357 cases for the sake of simplicity, as mentioned. Some people get all wrapped up in the "greater case capacity will lower the pressure and you'll get a bullet stuck in the bore!" but even starting loads for .38 are well above the range where you risk sticking a bullet and running the numbers in Quickload shows a drop in pressure of 100-ish psi and a drop in velocity of 10-ish fps between .357 and .38 cases using starting .38SPL loads. It simply isn't even worth worrying about.

16gn of 2400 with a 158gn lead bullet?!? That's more than 1gn over max for a jacketed bullet! Alliant doesn't even bother listing 2400 for lead loads since it isn't the right powder for the job.
 
"Not only will it leave a carbon ring, but it can scar the cylinder permanently."

The two Ruger Blackhawks that I use for SASS matches have many thousands of rounds of .38's fired through them and there is NO scaring of the cylinders. There would be no more chance of scaring a cylinder by using .38's than there would of using .357 Magnum brass, since the case mouth is the case mouth, no matter where it lands in the chamber of a revolver. If that were the case, the cylinders would be "scarred" where the Magnum case mouths are. My wife's Colt clones also have many thousands of rounds of .38 Special fired through the .357 Magnum cylinders, and no scarring. Between my wife and I we own about a dozen and a half .357 Magnum revolvers of different manufactures that digest mostly .38 Special loads, and none of them have suffered any damage whatsoever in the chambers.

Cleaning the carbon ring from a .357 Magnum cylinder that has had a lot of .38's fired through it is rather simple. You can either use a Lewis Lead Remover, or a bronze brush with a few strands of stainless steel wool wrapped around it, and chucked into a cordless drill.

I can clean carbon rings from the four cylinders of my wife's and my revolvers in about 5 minutes with the latter method.

What I wouldn't do is shoot a steady diet of 110 gr. .357 Magnum loads through any of my .357 revolvers, due to flame cutting of the top strap from the powder charge. I've seen some that were flame cut pretty badly from this practice in the past.

Hope this helps.

Fred
 
Hey, were you the guy who bought that Python before I could get it? :)

Been looking and saw a nice 4" about a 61 model and someone beat me to it with the cash. Oh well, I was actually looking for a 6" but the 4" I saw was absolutely beautiful.

If you like to plink years ago I had a S&W Model 27 and loved shooting 148 grain wad cutters in it.

Ron
 
Not only will it leave a carbon ring, but it can scar the cylinder permanently.
Click to expand...
No, it won't!!

Alliant doesn't even bother listing 2400 for lead loads since it isn't the right powder for the job.
Click to expand...
Yes they do.
Just not with Speer soft swaged lead bullets they are in cahoots with now.

2400 was The factory load powder with lead bullets for about the first 50 years of the .357 Magnum.
Back then, lead bullets was all there was.

rc
 
rcmodel said:
Yes they do.
Just not with Speer soft swaged lead bullets they are in cahoots with now.

2400 was The factory load powder with lead bullets for about the first 50 years of the .357 Magnum.
Back then, lead bullets was all there was.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. Fact still remains that the load listed is well beyond current published load data for jacketed bullets.
 
Yes! I completely agree 16.0 of 2400 with a 158gn lead bullet is an over-pressure combination, and always has been.

Even Elmer Keith wouldn't shoot that one!!

rc
 
Thanks for the reassurance. The last time I loaded any ammo for 357 mag. in my Dillon, it turned out great. We were using 13.9 gr. of 2400 with 158 gr. JHP's. My buddy was very pleased with how they shot out of his Trooper.
Again, my problem is all in my head. I'm so used to loading a specific cartridge for a specific firearm, that putting a cartridge marked one thing, 38 SPL, into a firearm designated as another thing, 357 mag., is freaking me out just a little.:eek:
Its a mental thing. To me, Bullseye and 231 mean 45 ACP. I've use so much of those two powders, and love the stuff for my 45's. Maybe I'll start loving it more as a reduced load in 38 SPL/357 Mag.
 
Bullseye is a 'classic' powder for lead in .38 spl. I love about 3.2gr of BE with 158gr LSWC, but it's coming out of a J-frame, not a 357mag wheel gun.
 
My wife and my 80yr old mother shoot 3.2 gr BE under a 158 cast swc or plated, out of a 686. Definitely cream puff.

Earlier this year I gave my mom a 357 round with 12.6gr of 2400 under a gc'd swc. After firing, she just looked at me and shrugged. Apparently she's recoil insensitive. I'm glad we're on the same side. :)
 
2400 is a great powder to work up moderate to near full house .357 magnum loads with. Start at the minimum published data and work up until your were it sounds, feels, and chronographs to your liking. Don't be affraid of it. 2400 is a very easy to work with powder and will treat you right so long as you don't attempt to down load it to below published data. I mean if you wanted to start at 8% below published you would very likely be OK with that powder, but there is really no reason to drop that light of a powder charge with 2400, in my opinion. Just don't try doing that with anything slower burning than 2400, such as H110 / 296 or things can get hinky, and even dangerous if you stick a bullet and don't realize you did, KB comes to mind.

When loading jacketed bullets, it is advisable to make sure you are loading stout enough to ensure that every bullet is clearing the barrel, without question! In other words, follow the published data if in doubt. And be sure to use a good roll crimp to prevent bullet jump also.

GS
 
My wife and my 80yr old mother shoot 3.2 gr BE under a 158 cast swc or plated, out of a 686. Definitely cream puff.

Earlier this year I gave my mom a 357 round with 12.6gr of 2400 under a gc'd swc. After firing, she just looked at me and shrugged. Apparently she's recoil insensitive. I'm glad we're on the same side.
Click to expand...

I started my wife off with 38 wadcutters when she first started shooting handguns. The second time we were shooting my brother handed her his stainless K-frame with some full house 357s in it. She shot a better group with those loads than he did, with his own gun. For valentines day a few months later I bought her a sweet 686-3 with one superb trigger ( bought it from my uncle who had a trigger job done on it when he bought it).
 
I have run both 231 and beye in 38 spl. I prefer 231 for most of my pistol rounds-38 spl, 44 spl, 44 mag, 45lc, 9mm, 40, 45 acp. I use Trail boss in my 460 for light loads. I also shoot 45lc in the 460 revolver and it will also fire 454. It is the same with 38spl/357 and 44spl/44mag.

With 231 and beye, be careful that you don't double charge. If you want to load some very soft loads without danger of over charging, get some Trail Boss. You can fill the case up and still be ok with it, as long as you don't compress the load. I have used Trail Boss in 45lc with good results and I also tried it out in my 30-06 bolt gun last weekend. A 150 grain jacketed bullet at 1200 fps from a 1926 30-06 is quite soft. For pistols, I stick to light loads in the shorter cases and use the magnum brass for the hot loads.
 
Range report

All went well.

I went to the range yesterday with two objectives in mind. One was to break in the new barrel on my .308, F/TR rifle. The other was to try out my Python.
Mission accomplished.

I used My Speer #13 manual for the .357 mag. load data because they specifically do not use magnum primers for their 2400 loads. I didn't have any mag. primers on hand. I used a 158 gr. Speer JHP with 13.8 gr. of 2400 with what looks like a pretty heavy crimp. Keep in mind I don't usually load for anything that requires a roll crimp much. My light load was a Berry's plated 158 gr. FP and 5.3 gr. of 231 in full sized .357 mag case. I didn't use any 38 SPL cases this time out, not sure if I ever will now.

Both loads did fine. Although the standard primer worked out fine with that particular 2400 charge, I may see if I can't get my hands on a box or two of mag. primers and reduce the 2400 charge weight. The 231 loads worked well too. I can see loading up more of those. Is there any reason not to use the Berry's bullets for the light, 231 loads?

I've still got that pound of Unique. I'll probably use that up on some reduced loads for next time and then just stick with 231.

Thanks for the help everybody.

B
 
The hazard of the fouling ring from .38's in a .357 is that MANY PEOPLE will not bother to do the job of cleaning the carbon ring properly. The methods mentioned above will do the job nicely. Other methods do the job poorly - and you end up with sticky extraction - which could be a major problem if a your life depends on a speedy reload.
 
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