First Batch of .357: Teething Problems

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Not that anyone asked me, but it seems to me that a someone brand new to reloading would be better off working with old established powders, like Unique or Bullseye, and putting together some relatively light .38 Special loads, just to get the hang of things.
 
Not that anyone asked me, but it seems to me that a someone brand new to reloading would be better off working with old established powders, like Unique or Bullseye, and putting together some relatively light .38 Special loads, just to get the hang of things.

I'm willing to consider this. What's your reasoning behind working with "relatively light" .38 special loads versus light to medium .357 loads?
 
Ruger throats tend to be small. :cuss:

WrongHand... take one of your bullets and try to push it all the way through the cylinder just using a pencil/eraser.
Bet'cha it won't go through.... o_O


.

I just tried this. It went through without too much of a fuss. I order something similar to these bullets but with a .358 diameter. But I'll shoot these up first.
 
357 Magnum data

From IMR 1999 powder manual. IMR4227 158 gr lead -15.8 gr maximum 1205 fps Rem 5 1/2 primer. Rem brass.

From my testing on 4-22-15. Starline brass IMR 4227, WSPM, 163 gr lswc home cast (158 gr mould) Started at 14.5 working up to MAXIMUM of 15.8 slightly harder brass extraction after firing. Best accuracy was at 15.0 grs. Firing in a S&W M28 6" barrel gun.

My cast bullet diameter is .3575" after sizing from a Lyman 358 die. Lube 50/50

My pet load is Alliant 2400-13.0gr -163 gr lswc home cast (158 gr mould) in Rem, Fed or Win brass. Any mag primer available. Fired in many different handguns. I did drop down for 13.5 gr as 1 or 2 guns had sticky ejection.
 
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I'm willing to consider this. What's your reasoning behind working with "relatively light" .38 special loads versus light to medium .357 loads?

When I started reloading, I was worried about blowing my gun and myself up if I made an error. Therefore, my first reloads were designed to make that as near an impossibility as possible. I started out loading "relatively light" .38 Specials using 158 gr lead bullets and Trail Boss for shooting in my .357 Magnum revolver. I chose Trail Boss because it is impossible to double charge a case without it being very obvious, so it was essentially impossible to put an amount of powder in a case that would be dangerous in a .357 Magnum revolver. It is also "fluffy" enough that you can easily see that you have charged the case,so a squib is far less likely as well. That can't be said of any other pistol powder I know of. I loaded a lot of rounds with this combination as I learned the ins-and-outs of working a turret press and getting all the steps down pat. With everything else you are looking at, and questioning yourself about, to know that you cannot have put an unsafe amount of powder (too much or none) in the case when you were distracted by a problem with all the other things that can go wrong, even if not trouble free (high primers, poor crimps, incorrect lengths, etc., etc., etc.), is a great feeling as you are getting started.

It has been a long time since I loaded any Trail Boss, although I have some on the shelf I plan to try in .35 Remington for gallery loads for the same reasons I used it starting out in .38 Special. I now use HP-38 or Universal for .38 Special loads, which I prefer because shooting any significant quantity of .357 Magnum rounds in a 4" barrel L-frame revolver is no longer my idea of fun. It is possible to double charge a case with either powder and it not be obvious, but I now have enough confidence in my reloading methods (I am a turret-press-with-auto-index fan) that I feel comfortable with my results. I do load full house .357 Magnum rounds with H-110 but I load fewer at a sitting and I weight every one until I'm sure everything is running perfectly because H-110 can be touchy..

To each his own, but this is how I got started and built up my confidence.
 
OP, I'll also add IMR4227 burns dirty, even at the higher end. I haven't tried with Mag primers yet, but with standard primers at near max loads for my Desert Eagle it sometimes leaves some flakes behind.
I have to compare 2400 and see how it does. The Desert Eagle needs full strength loads to cycle properly.

As to the thoughts on the beginner stage and maybe working up -- 38 Spcl is a lot more forgiving, particularly in a 357 Mag revolver.

Regardless, I think you're off to a good start. You're learning. You're asking for feedback. You're paying attention.
 
At this point I see no terribly compelling reason to drop down to .38 Special loads. I'm confident in my level of attention to detail that I'm not overly concerned about double charging or over charging a cartridge past the measure I intend to use. I'm certainly aware of the dangers, but I trust the data, the scales, and my own concentration enough to not worry about blowing up my gun or my hands.

It sounds as though the unburned powder is simply how the IMR 4227 works on the lower end. And I've double checked the seating of the primers on my Federal cases, which all appear slightly below flush. Only firing them will tell me anything more about that. I'll likely load them Monday afternoon, and have yet to decide how many grains of this powder to use this time. But certainly not close to maximum.

Thank you all for the feedback. I'll let you know how it goes.
 
Starting load is typically 90% of maximum.
My neighbor the gunsmith had very poor results underloading 4227 in .357 Mag.
A local dealer had poor results underloading 2400 in 44 Mag.
 
If the gun muzzle is not pointed up when the shells are ejected, dirt will get behind the star ejector and make the cylinder hard to rotate.

Some powder that do it. 2400, 4227 and HS-6. Using a mag primer. I am sure there are others.
 
I'm willing to consider this. What's your reasoning behind working with "relatively light" .38 special loads versus light to medium .357 loads?

Simply that some of the possible mistakes could be less likely to result in a dangerous situation. (And there are any number of possible mistakes... and you don't have to be a rookie to make one... but it helps.)
 
Mistakes handloading .38 Spl can result in a blown up gun just the same as other calibers. Mind you, it does operate at lower pressures, and for those reasons .38 pl and .45 ACP, which also operates at low pressure, are two that are often recommended to start with when taking up reloading, when folks ask about htis vs that. 9MM vs .45 ACP, or .38 pl vs .357.

That said, WrongHanded shows a keen interest and seems to be focused on what he is doing, so there should be no issue starting with .357 Mag. IMHO of course.
 
Not that anyone asked me, but it seems to me that a someone brand new to reloading would be better off working with old established powders, like Unique or Bullseye, and putting together some relatively light .38 Special loads, just to get the hang of things.

My thinking is along those lines also.


Unable to locate the Alliant 2400 powder I wanted to use, I settled for......

You are new to handloading and fixated on one particular powder. Why? Is there any reason you couldn't get the powder you already have to perform in your application? In general, how critical is the powder (assuming that it can produce the required pressure) to the success of our handloads?
 
You are new to handloading and fixated on one particular powder. Why? Is there any reason you couldn't get the powder you already have to perform in your application? In general, how critical is the powder (assuming that it can produce the required pressure) to the success of our handloads?

In the Lyman manual there are around 7-10 different powders for most of the calibers and bullet grain weights I'm interested in reloading. Not all of these recipes have every powder in common. I'm sure any powder used for a say 125gr .357 Mag could be used for a 255gr .44 Mag, but that doesn't mean that particular powder is listed for both loads in this manual.

So there were a handful of powders that were listed for the various loads I was interested in. H110 and 296 seem to be top end powders that require magnum primers. I decided they were more than I needed to start with. 2400 was an option across the board, and after reading about it in both the Lyman manual and The ABC's of Reloading, I decided it sounded like a good starting point for my purposes, and likely a powder I could continue to use once I'd worked up loads I was happy with. And I did ask on another thread if there were any reasons not to begin with 2400. None were presented.

Why? How would you select a first powder with all the various options out there?
 
So there were a handful of powders that were listed for the various loads I was interested in. H110 and 296 seem to be top end powders that require magnum primers. I decided they were more than I needed to start with. 2400 was an option across the board, and after reading about it in both the Lyman manual and The ABC's of Reloading, I decided it sounded like a good starting point for my purposes, and likely a powder I could continue to use once I'd worked up loads I was happy with. And I did ask on another thread if there were any reasons not to begin with 2400. None were presented.

Why? How would you select a first powder with all the various options out there?

I personally would never argue with the over priced, overrated and outdated ABC book so you give a good answer there. But to your question on selecting powders considering that since there are probably 50 or so shotgun and/or pistol powders that you can use and if you look hard enough will find published data on probably all of them. There are also more than that many, probably 100s of bullets to select. So lacking your instincts I would first evaluate just exactly what my goals and plans for said ammo. For example, hunting round, target load, personal defense, big loud bang with flames. I would select a powder and bullet based on the intended task. It's just me but I would use magnum primers for anything approaching magnum loads because deep down in my spleen I have the crazy notion that magnum primers are a bit tougher than standard primers. Opinions differ on that one though.

Your statement about Alliant 2400 gives the impression, right or wrong, that it is one awesome smokeless pistol powder and I was just curious as to how you came to know this information. Not saying it isn't awesome just want to know how you found out about it's abilities.

Happy handloading!
 
I personally would never argue with the over priced, overrated and outdated ABC book so you give a good answer there.

It was suggested by more than one person as being a good introduction. I'm pretty sure it is also one suggested in one of the sticky threads.

But to your question on selecting powders considering that since there are probably 50 or so shotgun and/or pistol powders that you can use and if you look hard enough will find published data on probably all of them. There are also more than that many, probably 100s of bullets to select.

Yes, many powders, many bullets. So I suppose I could ask exactly what to start with on this forum, and possibly get as many different answers as I got replies. Which would only confuse me more. Then availability of a specific powder and specific bullet could complicate things even further. The advice of one trusted individual can be priceless; but the conflicting advice of a dozen unknown individuals can be just the opposite. Not because the advice of any of those people is incorrect, just because it is too much information to process. So whilst I truly DO appreciate all the advice and the answers I have been offered, in the end it's up to me to decide what to do with that advice.

So lacking your instincts I would first evaluate just exactly what my goals and plans for said ammo. For example, hunting round, target load, personal defense, big loud bang with flames. I would select a powder and bullet based on the intended task. It's just me but I would use magnum primers for anything approaching magnum loads because deep down in my spleen I have the crazy notion that magnum primers are a bit tougher than standard primers. Opinions differ on that one though.

My goals are two fold. Firstly, to create powerful and accurate self defense rounds for woods carry (hiking, camping, backpacking). This would include both 2 and 4 legged threats, but without the concern of over-penetration that is typically of concern in urban areas. Secondly, to create target loads that come close to mimicking the recoil and POI of the defense loads, so that I can practice with something approximating what I carry in the wild. The target loads would also grant me the ability to practice on a far more regular basis than I have previously been able to afford.

A third possible application would be to create lower powered .44 Magnum loads with relatively light HP bullets, for urban self defense carry. Something equal to, or slightly exceeding the velocities of the "boutique" .44 Special self defense loads offered by the likes of Double Tap (my current choice) and Buffalo Bore. But in a .44 Magnum case. This is not in the forefront of my mind at present, due to my inexperienced and the potential legal implications should I ever need to use such ammunition in a self defense situation. And so will require some serious thought down the road.


Your statement about Alliant 2400 gives the impression, right or wrong, that it is one awesome smokeless pistol powder and I was just curious as to how you came to know this information. Not saying it isn't awesome just want to know how you found out about it's abilities.

I would not say I believe it to be an "awesome" powder. I am fully aware that I don't know enough to make such an assessment. But this is what I did:

I cross referenced the powders in the recipes for the loads I had interest in, and found 2400 to be common in all of them. There were of course others that were common across the board. I knew that I was ultimately after some high end loads, and so the maximum velocities did factor in to this search. But after looking through the powder information in both books, I determined some were higher end powders than I should begin with; namely H110 and 296. Of the others 2400 was mentioned as being popular with .357 Magnum and .44 Magnum. It also seemed to frequently give the best accuracy in the testing that went into the Lyman manual. I did a small amount of searching online and confirmed its popularity despite its age, and found that it was once considered by some to be the best magnum pistol cartridge powder. So decided that was as good a place to start as any.


Happy handloading!

Thank you!
 
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Magnum's are magnum's. Load them to at least mid level magnum powder charges and use magnum primers. Don't try to make mild 38 specials with magnum components. You are asking for problems.
 
Regarding magnum primers: I already have standard primers in large and small pistol. 1,000 count in large, and now 900 in small. The manual did not specify they were necessary, so I did not buy them. But considering the price difference, and the number of people suggesting them, I will buy magnums once I have used these. Perhaps sooner if I continue to have issues. I can always save the standard primers for .45acp and .40sw if I ever get around to reloading those.
 
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