Fluted heavy barrel- question
- Thread starter igotta40
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1911 guy
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Increased surface are for cooling, weight reduction and also stiffening.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Those are secondary benefits.
The primary benefit is they are cooler looking and cost more then non-fluted barrels!!
Rc
The primary benefit is they are cooler looking and cost more then non-fluted barrels!!
Rc
farmerboy78
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+1 along with 1911 guy
I had my
.416 Remington fluted and two inches taken off the nose mainly to bring down the forward weight. Since most hunting rifles aren't shot more than a couple times in succession and the first shot is from a cold barrel I doubt that heat dissipation enters the picture.
.416 Remington fluted and two inches taken off the nose mainly to bring down the forward weight. Since most hunting rifles aren't shot more than a couple times in succession and the first shot is from a cold barrel I doubt that heat dissipation enters the picture.
Weight reduction is the most important part with faster cooling secondary. Stiffer is relative.
If you start with a given barrel diameter then flute the barrel you do not make it stiffer than it was originally. You will make it lighter without giving up any accuracy.
If you start with 2 barrels, (one fluted, one un-fluted) that weigh exactly the same, the un-fluted barrel will have to be smaller in diameter. The fluted barrel will be stiffer and if everything else is equal should be more accurate.
For a hunter it allows you to have the accuracy of a sporter weight barrel on a rifle with weight reduction closer to a thinner mountain type or featherweight rifle .
In competitions where the overall weight of the rifle has limitations if could allow a longer stiffer barrel while still being within weight limits. Where lots of shots are fired it could also help with cooling.
Deus Machina
Member
Not many will see the cooling effects, but it's a secondary benefit.
For the civilian market, I'm betting it's just mostly a selling point more than the actual benefits. But it does make it lighter for the same accuracy benefits.
To dumb it down, fluting makes a barrel stiffer relative to weight, not diameter. A solid .875" barrel will probably be more accurate than a fluted one (flukes and odd harmonic fluctuations aside), but an accurately fluted one isn't going to harm accuracy but will cut down on weight.
For the civilian market, I'm betting it's just mostly a selling point more than the actual benefits. But it does make it lighter for the same accuracy benefits.
To dumb it down, fluting makes a barrel stiffer relative to weight, not diameter. A solid .875" barrel will probably be more accurate than a fluted one (flukes and odd harmonic fluctuations aside), but an accurately fluted one isn't going to harm accuracy but will cut down on weight.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Compared to a round barrel, the fluted barrel is stiffer for a given weight; lighter for a given nominal diameter. Relative rate of cooling is probably trivial.
So far, no really definitive results for comparative accuracy. By and large, six of one, half-dozen of the other.
So far, no really definitive results for comparative accuracy. By and large, six of one, half-dozen of the other.
fotheringill
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Weight reduction and cooling (a little) and as stated above, it looks cool.
Is there a lot of weight reduction? No, but it might be enough to make a weight limit.
I have a Savage 12 in 223 with a precision action and a 30" bull barrel. I the first time I picked it up, I got an inguinal hernia.
Is there a lot of weight reduction? No, but it might be enough to make a weight limit.
I have a Savage 12 in 223 with a precision action and a 30" bull barrel. I the first time I picked it up, I got an inguinal hernia.
Fluting a revolver cylinder to reduce weight and change balance has been a standard practice for 150 years. If fluting a 2" cylinder on a revolver can effect weight enough to be standard practice then fluting a 16-30" rifle barrel can change the weight enough to make a difference.
While some think it looks cool, I actually like the benefits I see. I've always preferred rifles on the lighter side because of the terrain where I hunt. I've always been drawn toward rifles such as the Remington 7's, 700 Mt rifles, and the Winchester Featherweight. I've been using a Winchester 70 EW with fluted barrel the last few years. It has the same overall weight as the Featherweight, but with the barrel thickness of the sporter. Accuracy is much better than the thinner tubed guns, but I'm not adding excessive weight either. For me it is a win/win situation.
While some think it looks cool, I actually like the benefits I see. I've always preferred rifles on the lighter side because of the terrain where I hunt. I've always been drawn toward rifles such as the Remington 7's, 700 Mt rifles, and the Winchester Featherweight. I've been using a Winchester 70 EW with fluted barrel the last few years. It has the same overall weight as the Featherweight, but with the barrel thickness of the sporter. Accuracy is much better than the thinner tubed guns, but I'm not adding excessive weight either. For me it is a win/win situation.
Fluting does not significantly increase surface area to the point where it will provide any significant cooling benefit.
they are done solely to reduce weight and because it look cool.....the fluting on its own does nothing to increase accuracy.
they are done solely to reduce weight and because it look cool.....the fluting on its own does nothing to increase accuracy.
Also fluting will not add to accuracy, however if done incorrect, or just bad luck it can decrease accuracy. Google is your friend, lots of in depth, theoretical stuff that's way overmy pea brain,
My main point is it looks cool, and people like looks !! I'm not immune myself.. If I were purchasing a $500 match barrel blank I can't see having it fluted at my current state of money, but if I were putting a used match barrel on a hunting rifle I bought the barrel for $100 I may have it fluted to look really cool, and tell myself it decreased the weight just so it would look cool and reduce weight.. Some manufactures will void warranty on barrel if fluted, Lilja is a good example, and Lilja is the most accurate barrel I have ever owned...
My main point is it looks cool, and people like looks !! I'm not immune myself.. If I were purchasing a $500 match barrel blank I can't see having it fluted at my current state of money, but if I were putting a used match barrel on a hunting rifle I bought the barrel for $100 I may have it fluted to look really cool, and tell myself it decreased the weight just so it would look cool and reduce weight.. Some manufactures will void warranty on barrel if fluted, Lilja is a good example, and Lilja is the most accurate barrel I have ever owned...
farmerboy78
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It all depends on the fluting itself, some of it is definitely for looks mostly....but some rifles such as the ga precision rifles that use very heavy barrels to begin with, and then deep flute the rifles....these will cool better, lighter, stiffer, and more accurate.... think of the stiffness part like this, flat steel can easily be bent and is very flexible. But you take an I beam, the design makes it stronger and stiffer that doesn't flex as easy....done correctly it will change barrel harmonics and help reduce muzzle whip.... and bartlein is the most accurate barrel I've owned.... used by accuracy international usa and ga precision almost exclusively.
rcmodel said:
Accuracy International is in the business of making serious rifles for serious use and have been for quite a few years. I have to wonder if they gave a second thought to looks when they came out with the AWM rifles in .300 Win Mag and .338 Lapua Mag, both of which have fluted barrels. I have quite a few rifles with fluted barrels including two AIs and three ARs ... all shoot really, really well. It would be interesting to see how many benchrest barrels are fluted since those guys are the pinnacle of precision (if not accuracy) and heat is always a concern.
I will agree with Clint M that fluting has to be done well or it can hurt accuracy.
M-Cameron said:
That's a very general statement for a complex issue. The first part will depend on the geometry of the flutes. The second part will depend on the primary mode of heat transfer be it convection, conduction or radiation. Cooling via convection and radiation can be affected by the surface geometry.
scythefwd
Member
Just a note.. they are stiffer than a barrel that is thinner and weighs the same, they are less stiff than a barrel of the dame diameter but heavier...
primalmu
Member
There is some thought that fluting may alter the internal stresses in the metal and potentially negatively impact barrel accuracy. Case in point, fluting a Shilen barrel will void its warranty. Here is what they have to say on their website:
That being said, I don't know how much of an effect it will have. When I bought my 18" fluted Wilson barrel for my AR project (nearing completion), there was no difference in price between the non-fluted and fluted barrel. I chose the fluted barrel solely for the weight savings.
That being said, I don't know how much of an effect it will have. When I bought my 18" fluted Wilson barrel for my AR project (nearing completion), there was no difference in price between the non-fluted and fluted barrel. I chose the fluted barrel solely for the weight savings.
USSR
Member
I wonder out of all the guys who have attempted to answer your question, how many actually have rifles with fluted barrels? I had 2 match rifles built using fluted barrels; a Krieger and an Obermeyer. There have been hints about how it can be done wrong. To elaborate on that: ONLY have it done on a cut rifled barrel. If your barrel is rifled by either the hammer forging or button rifling method, FORGET ABOUT IT! Now, as to the quicker cooling, I have found it to be so miniscule as to not really be a factor. This was ascertained thru 6 years of 1,000 yard F Class competition, in which about 30 rounds are fired within 30 minutes. Looking cool? I guess "cool" is in the eye of the beholder. Personally, I didn't have it done for "coolness". So why did I have it done? Two reasons: First, to have the greatest amount of stiffness for a particular weight barrel; and second, to remove some weight exactly where it is needed to better balance my long barreled rifles. Hope that helps.
Don
Don
Vern Humphrey
Member
Amen!
To the best of my knowledge, no one has ever proved there is a significant cooling effect of fluted barrels, and the weight savings are miniscule.
Jim Watson
Member
I saw one fluting job that cut 14 ounces. Hardly minuscule
But you really have to let the milling machine loose.
But you really have to let the milling machine loose.
I guess if it's a bolt action rifle then fluting could add to the coolness factor, but if on an AR then the fluting is largely or entirely under the hand guards so the fluting can't even be seen.
I know the White Oak barrel I use is described as "Nearly a full pound of weight is removed from the barrel and the surface area in the first 12" of barrel length, where the majority of heat is generated, is increased a whopping 81%."
I can't express any expertise but my 20" WOA upper shoots a lot better, runs cooler and doesn't weigh hugely more than my M4 format upper with a DD cold hammer forged 16" barrel.
I know the White Oak barrel I use is described as "Nearly a full pound of weight is removed from the barrel and the surface area in the first 12" of barrel length, where the majority of heat is generated, is increased a whopping 81%."
I can't express any expertise but my 20" WOA upper shoots a lot better, runs cooler and doesn't weigh hugely more than my M4 format upper with a DD cold hammer forged 16" barrel.
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