Followed by a tailgater!

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I can't help but think that at some point since then, or perhaps some point yet to come, that guy either has killed somebody with his insane recklessness, or he will kill somebody
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interesting, in an ironic kind of way
 
EOTech,

First this nonsense...
My dad and I have a technique for dealing with people who tailgate us and then follow us for miles with fingers and flashing lights and such (we've had it happen a few times)...

The most common thing I do (or he does, it is originally his move) is to decide to move his gun from his holster to the glovebox, and accidentally yawn in the process, stretching his right hand (the hand with the gun) up towards the roof of the car, about a hand's distance away from the rear view mirror.

That almost never fails to get a maniac off our tail.
...
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Then this...
The only time I have ever come close to shooting somebody on the road would be back when I was about 14 years old....

... I then asked my mom if she wanted me to reach in the back seat and bring up my rifle, slap a 30 rounder into it, and start shooting before the guy tried some other insane assault with his vehicle. ...
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Do you really think that these juvenile flights of fancy help the image of gun owners in any way, shape, or form when posted on an open forum?
 
Brandishing? Not at all, in the process of putting away a firearm, involuntary yawning occurs...
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Colorado would call that brandishing no questions asked, you'd lose your R2KBA ( I'm trying to convince myself that would be bad)

It ends escalation
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Or he's also armed & you just started a gun fight

Everybody wins because the idiot doesn't feel so powerful and big that he tries to do something that would end with his being shot.
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And once again irony rears its ugly head
 
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I would have felt very threatened and defended myself accordingly. One swing of that bat would have been the start of it and one BANG would have ended it.
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Exactly how I feel. I'm not positive about WA law, but anyone with a bat swinging it above their head, coming towards me and family would be more then enough to let er' rip. Don't be afraid to defend your self if need be.
 
I'm in OK, so i'm not sure about your local law, but for me, he gets a verbal challenge as soon as he makes himself known, a challenge of arms when he expresses intent, and a display of force when he crosses the 21-foot boundry.

if he didn't want to get shot, he wouldn't have threatened my life inside my bubble.
 
If I were on the jury, it would not look good. It seems to me you may have gone into your house, got your gun, went back out with your kids, got in the car and confronted the 'Tail gater'.

I would go along with this theory simply because of no explaination as to why you did not go to a neutral, yet busy, place if you thought you were being followed; you failed, for unkown reasons, to stay home when the 'Tail gater' parked on the street in front of your house; I figure a person driving a car on even a one lane driveway can back up, even if slowly, if in a passenger vehicle; I'm wondering why, if the wife had the cell phone on and ready, why she was not in the car with you and the kids ....

It just seems like an 'Ambush' scenario to me ... an escalation of the violence. ... sad, but true.

I'm glad no violence actually resulted from this scenario.
 
3 pr 4 problems or issues

1) I would not have driven home for him to follow me I would have driven to the police station or sheriff;s office or very public place.

2) If I had of went home as you did I would have put the wife and kids in the house and protected Them First.

3) When you drove back to him and you got out of your vehicle and approched him, if some casual observer had seen this it might could be articulated they you were the aggressor at that point.

4) There was no mention of "Mr. Mini" being coated with KY Jelly or some other lube, that would have made it pretty painful going in and being removed from your hind quarters after action. (Just kidding :) a .22 in your pocket is better than a .45 in a drawer at the house when you need it).
 
markk-

I was 14/15 years old at the time and the guy had just tried to run my mother off the road as we were going over a bridge. That's called attempted murder, isn't it?

It is only human nature to want to stop the guy from trying such a move again, ie- responding with lethal force. If that guy had the chance, I have no doubt he would have done something nasty again.


I don't take kindly to people trying to kill my mother and I, I know, I'm an awful human being.

I have a flawless driving record and no criminal record. But let me tell you, some of the people on the road are insane and will become violent and aggressive over the slightest bit of provocation. I've never chased after anybody waving a gun or a club at them, but I've had a number of people follow me around for turn after turn, a number of times.
 
And once again irony rears its ugly head
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If a guy has been riding behind me (or my father) for 20 minutes, about a foot or two off our bumper, and he keeps flashing his lights, giving us obscene gestures, and such... Clearly he is way out of line and would probably just pull over and try to cause violence if I pulled over and stopped to let him go by me.
 
Or he's also armed & you just started a gun fight
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Or I do nothing, he thinks I am weak and unwilling to oppose his highway bullying, and he ups the ante.

If somebody was say twenty feet behind you waving a knife, would you let it continue without presenting force of your own?

Why should I let it continue if somebody is two feet behind my car, with his car (potentially a deadly weapon), when he is behaving as though he intends to use his car as a deadly weapon?
 
Rimmer

"If necessary I would have shot but only as a last resort and probably in the legs."

If the situation had developed to deadly or bodily harm status and the firearm comes into play CENTER MASS is the only thought should come to mind. Leg shot with an NAA Mini is not an option. Mindset is crucial.Use enough gun and fire center mass.
 
Colorado would call that brandishing no questions asked, you'd lose your R2KBA ( I'm trying to convince myself that would be bad)
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I suppose I shouldn't reference the time I was about 14.5/15 and was able to use the threat of a handgun (snub nosed revolver) in Chicago (yes, Chicago) to keep two "young adults" (18-20 year old gang members who based upon their style of dress were either gang members or violent posers of some sort) who seemed intent on attacking my mother and I (for whatever reason I do not know). All I figure is that they were never counting on a 14 year old skinny white boy to have a .38 revolver. When they heard the words "screw this, I'm getting my gun" and saw my hand going in my fanny pack, they turned and exited the store, VERY quickly.

I have absolutely no doubt that if it had not been for the threat of the use of a gun, either as we left the store or as soon as we were outside, or near our car, they were going to attack us. They had been looking at me, flexing their muscles at me, making fists and waving them, making obscene gestures and references about my mother. I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that they would have done something very nasty.

For those of you who might freak at the idea that I was carrying concealed at age 15 in Chicago, no, the gun was actually in my mother's vehicle... I made a bluff with the move of the hand to the fanny pack, a calculated move, but it worked. I had told her if there was ever any trouble, to leave me to fight my best in hand-to-hand (ie- take a beating) while she was to rush back to the vehicle and get it, load it, and get back and save me from being pummeled to death. So yes, I did have a handgun in Chicago but no it was not on my person.


I suppose when they saw the Glock T-shirt I was wearing, combined with the fanny pack, and my camo hat, they figured perhaps I did indeed have a gun of some sort in that fanny pack. All I know is that serious trouble was brewing and all we had done was go into a small store to buy some groceries for our road-trip back to southern Illinois, and these two thugs who had been loitering by the door when we went in, were still loitering by the door when we were at the register/counter, and they clearly wanted a lot of trouble. If it had come to it, I'd have given them as much trouble as I could have. Luckily it didn't come to it.
 
From my reading, the OP thought the tailgater had given up two turns from his home. That is why he went home. Then he had to run errands with his family. He pulled out of his driveway and there was the tailgater, blocking the road. The OP stated that he lives in a rural setting. Depending on how rural, that could mean there is no nearby police or fire department to drive to. Given those circumstances, someone should have called 911 sooner, to give the local PD time to respond.

I have seen road ragers tailgating on highways and I try to get their plate number and report them, along with the description of the vehicle and direction of travel, as well as articulating exactly what they are doing.
 
Watch out in Washington State. Yes they issue carry permits but they don't want you using that gun to protect yourself. You can bet if you shot him you would have been arrested. This is an overly liberal state and the crooks have more rights than you. As a matter of fact, even if you don't use your gun and get involved in any kind of legal incident they will use your carry license against you. They know they can arrest you and because your record was clean up to this point you will pay anything to keep it that way. This is where a carry permit works against you. They know you will pay to keep it and believe me you will.

I am speaking from personal experience and the same thing happened to my brother. Each of us on separate incidents were falsely accused of assault. In both cases a spouse lied and made false testimonies. In both cases the cops came and there wasn't even a mark on the lying "victims". The cops say that if their is ANY REMOTE POSSIBILITY they thought you might have illegally touched someone they will issue a citation and probably press charges. If this happens to someone with a rap sheet they will just plea bargain down to a stupid disorderly conduct charge. The cops know you want a totally clean record so they harass you into hiring an expensive lawyer to keep that record squeaky clean.
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First of all, the police are not the ones who decide whether or not to prosecute, or even what charge to bring against you, if any at all. That's up to the DA, who is not a member of the police force.

Second of all, without any details of the incidents it is impossible for us to make a determination on whether your and your brother's charges were justified. Judging from the overall tone of your post, I'm unconvinced that we're getting a full, accurate, and unbiased report from you.
 
time I was about 14.5/15 and was able to use the threat of a handgun (snub nosed revolver) in Chicago (yes, Chicago) to keep two "young adults" (18-20 year old gang members who based upon their style of dress were either gang members or violent posers of some sort) who seemed intent on attacking my mother and I (for whatever reason I do not know). All I figure is that they were never counting on a 14 year old skinny white boy to have a .38 revolver. When they heard the words "screw this, I'm getting my gun" and saw my hand going in my fanny pack, they turned and exited the store, VERY quickl
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GECKOTECH,
Was this before or after you saved the Mayor's nephew?
 
I was with my mother, she was driving me from Ohio to Illinois to spend a part of the summer with her. I had a handgun, a rifle, and a shotgun in the SUV. There was a pickup truck from Georgia towing a long rectangular/flat box-type trailer that was perhaps as long as 2.5 pickup trucks, but it was not a semi. we were going about 5-8 miles per hour over the speed limit (in the left lane) and for about a few miles he kept making gestures at us, waving his arms and all sorts of nonsense.
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If you were in the left lane and were not actively passing another vehicle, you were illegally occupying that lane. Ohio law (and almost every other state's law) states that you can only use the left lane when passing. It is not the "fast lane", it's the passing lane.

Since the other guy had sufficient room to pass you on the right, you must have been improperly occupying the passing lane and thereby impeding the flow of traffic. Were I an officer witnessing the situation, I would have issued two citations. One to the guy with the trailer for reckless operation (insufficient evidence for holding on assault charges) and one to your mother for impeding the flow of traffic.

Bottom line, you should never just sit in the left lane when the right lane is open. The left lane is for passing only and is not a main travel lane. Always keep to the right except to pass. To do otherwise is to provoke precisely this sort of thing. It is not your job to keep anyone else from speeding.

Even though your posts stink of trolling, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and tell you the single most effective way I have found to deal with (and actually prevent) tailgaiters: Don't drive like a jerk, and if someone wants to go faster than you, pull to the right and let them go by (though, as illustrated by the OP, don't wave, they can mis-interpret). When I was younger and stupider I had my share of incidents with road-ragers. Since I started using the tip I just shared, I haven't had a single incident.

I sincerely hope that your posts are simple trolling as I would hate to think that you legitimately represent my beloved home state.
 
Have you by chance ever heard of Gecko45?

I think treo has a point. EOTech, if you have done/will do half the things you talk about on this forum I think you have a date with either a jail cell or worse. I'll tell you, if I ever saw someone in a vehicle engaging another vehicle with a 30 round EBR, I wouldn't think the second vehicle was the bad guy. I doubt anyone would.
 
lmao @ treo

eotech he's saying your mall ninja is showing. hyperbolic tales of bravery told revealing a fool hardy twist.
 
taurusowner

As I said, I was a 14/15 year old who was pissed that somebody tried to kill my mother and I. My mother thought better of it and told me to restrain myself, which I did. I never even touched the rifle...
 
Remember "MMO"

Means - Does he have the means to harm you? (and yes a big man with bare fists is enough let alone a bat)

Motive- Is there a motive for the person to harm you?

Opportunity- Can the harm actually be carried out? (If the person is right there in your face then yes)

All met and self defense is probably justifiable (though you'll still wind up paying at least $20k in legal fees before it's all over).


What level of force is appropriate if bonehead started smashing my windows with his bat?
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Running him over with your car.
 
eotech he's saying your mall ninja is showing. hyperbolic tales of bravery told revealing a fool hardy twist.
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Most of my tales are either of youthful recklessness, or they convey a sense of how bluffing (in some circumstances) can and does work. There's nothing particularly heroic about it. I'm not a freaking combat veteran... I have had run-ins with groups of people who tried to mug me or attack with no provocation (walking down the street, a car stops and people jump out, trying to mob me), and you either A- have a gun and draw it B- bluff yourself out as you make it seem you are trying to draw a gun C- take an ass-kicking D- talk your way out of it. E- run like hell

I have found that D never works and I've never been able to manage E, especially when things involve folks in a car.

To date I have never shot anybody, I've been able to use threats and bluffs to make the other side back down before things got too dicey.


There's nothing mall ninja about it. I'm not some stealthy super sweet hand-to-hand special ops expert, I'm just a normal guy doing what I can with what I have and what I know.
 
I think treo has a point. EOTech, if you have done/will do half the things you talk about on this forum I think you have a date with either a jail cell or worse. I'll tell you, if I ever saw someone in a vehicle engaging another vehicle with a 30 round EBR, I wouldn't think the second vehicle was the bad guy. I doubt anyone would.
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Yes, my mother always said she thought I'd wind up dead or in prison.


A small gang of students in my high school used to think they could get away with anything and hide behind the race card if the authorities tried to discipline them. One of them (a big black kid) kept threatening me and harassing me. He let word get to me, via a guy who was on the football team (he himself was as well) who was friends with myself and sort of friends with him, that if I paid him 100 dollars he would leave me alone. I was told by the black kid that I'd be put in the hospital if I did not pay.

I took him aside and said "I don't doubt you can put me in the hospital, okay, so what... The day I get out, I'm going to take my AK-47 and put you in the morgue, and they're going to need a forklift to get you in the coffin cause I'll fill you full of lead."

Once he heard from the mutual friend/co-football player that I actually did have an AK-47 (and he told him "if you hospitalize him, he will kill you when he gets out") I never had to listen to any of his crap again, let alone his attempts at extortion. He gave me a LOT of space after that conversation.

I have a sort of line I draw, and I enforce it. Rarely do I start trouble, never do I run from it. Since getting out of high-school my instances of starting trouble have dropped to exactly zero. Alternative conflict reduction techniques of mine tend to take the shape of simple avoidance of the situation to begin with.

But, my friend was right when he told that kid if he hospitalized me I would have killed him. As I said, I have a line, and I will enforce it. If I come home and find somebody has killed my dad, even if they drop their knife and try to run away, I will shoot them in the back. If I come home and find my wife sobbing because somebody raped her, if they're still there, I will kill them. If somebody puts me in the hospital, assuming I have my memory when I come to and get discharged, I am going after them. If I don't or cannot go after them, my pals will handle it for me.


Seldom do people actually have a clear and defined boundary that reads, "this much but no more" or "this far but no further."

Somebody in high-school once stole my CD disc-man, and that was the only time anybody ever stole anything from me. I didn't do anything over it since I couldn't think of anything that would be appropriate in terms of a proportionate response that wouldn't just escalate the situation. I didn't want to push the situation over something I regarded as minor.

Now if I had come home and found out that the guy had broken into my house and killed my cat, I would have gutted and torched his prized pickup truck.

I'm generally the sort of person who refuses to be bullied. Even if it means you'll take an ass-kicking from three people, it doesn't really matter. Sooner or later everybody gets their ass kicked. If you stick up for yourself enough, you'll eventually get your ass handed to you when you find yourself in over your head. Better you have your ass kicked than to be forced to kiss ass and still probably wind up with your ass kicked for 'the hell of it' by the thugs anyway.
 
Never trust a 14 year old kid in a moving car with an AK-47 and a 30 round magazine.

Never.
 
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