357WheelGun
Member
EOTech, the most unfortunate thing I can think of is that someone will hear your rantings and assume that you're a typical firearms owner.
Grow up.
Grow up.
Followed by a tailgater!
- Thread starter axehead77
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CYANIDEGENOCIDE
Member
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2008
- Messages
- 476
so much for walk silently and carry a big stick
EOTechRulesAll
member
Or- don't trust your soul to no backwoods southern truck-driver.
Legally I was wrong in what I wanted to do. Morally I was probably right. Probably why 14 year olds do not get to write the laws.
But still, if that guy has since killed somebody, if I knew about it, I'd feel partially responsible, since that man attempted to kill my mother and I, and the police did absolutely NOTHING about it, and I at least wanted to do something.
Let me ask you this... If a guy shoots you in the gut in front of your house, and then starts to run away, can you legally shoot him in the back? Can you morally shoot him in the back?
Ultimately I suppose it really doesn't matter, I was 14, it's long since over and done with, I can take it as a valuable lesson. Today my first thought would be to take down the plate and call the police. That's exactly what I did when I was being tail-gated by a truck in Nebraska.
A semi-truck was behind me, tail-gating about two feet behind me in a 70 mile per hour zone where I was doing 78 miles per hour. He was drifting from the left shoulder to the right shoulder, changing lanes without signalling, forcing cars to move over (almost into the shoulders), and I finally just let him by me, but he slowed down and I wound up in front of him again, and he begins to tail-gate me again.
I took down ALL of his info, the cab color, cab number, license plate numbers, state the license was from, and I found a nearby mile marker and a local city name for a nearby exit. I called 911 and told them I was an out of state resident on a highway, and that this trucker was insane, that he was either on something or very sleep-deprived, driving like a maniac. About eight miles down the road I saw that he was pulled over by the state-troopers.
I'd say it is a better way to handle conflicts. Then again the trucker in Nebraska didn't actually try to kill me by running me off the road on a bridge, the whacko in Indiana did.
xjchief
Member
When I was a little less mature and wise I used my e-brake to discourage tailgaters. Something about the smoke coming from my tires and the lack of brake lights seemed to get them to back off.
Now, I simply make a turn off the road or find some other way to let them pass.
I would NEVER go anywhere near my house if I had a tailgater who was obviously agitated. Call the police from your sell phone and ask for help or drive to the cop shop. It's easier than having to pull your gun and much easier than shooting someone.
Now, I simply make a turn off the road or find some other way to let them pass.
I would NEVER go anywhere near my house if I had a tailgater who was obviously agitated. Call the police from your sell phone and ask for help or drive to the cop shop. It's easier than having to pull your gun and much easier than shooting someone.
EOTechRulesAll
member
No, I'm telling you that I grew up being threatened by gangs on a daily/weekly basis in high school.
I grew up being harassed by school authorities for reading magazines such as Soldier of Fortune, America's First Freedom, and such.
I grew up being suspended over nothing, threatened over nothing, and I even once wound up sued over nothing (I won the case though, as I said, it was without merit).
It's not a joke, it's what a lot of the youth in this nation have to go through. A lot of people just roll over and do nothing, they would get their elitist parents to give them $100 dollars to pay off a possibly violent bully demanding the cash. I never had rich elitist parents and I was never raised to yield to the demands of thugs.
I've done more in 21 years in regards to helping random strangers, than most people will in a lifetime. I stopped what was either an attempted rape or at least a domestic assault (I believe it turned out it was a domestic assault as it turned out to be her boyfriend, but all I saw was a guy beating a gal in a parking lot, holding her down, as she screamed for help), and I did it without even having to bluff a gun (I used pepper spray). My roommate was there and he said he first thought it was a rape/kidnapping. The thing is, a dozen guys saw this, walked by it, and did nothing...
But then again, it's not a contest, as I said, I just do what I can with what I have. It's not a joke either. Sometimes I make a bad call (a number of the calls I made as a youth), but just because I was 14 or 15, doesn't mean I was fair-game for anybody who wanted to victimize me or take advantage of me.
The right to be left alone to pursue happiness in peace is an inherent right, not one that only starts at the age of majority.
The way I was raised, what I believe, what I've been through in my life, what I refuse to go through again, it all has made me who I am, and let me tell you, I am the sort of person who will quickly come to the aid of anybody in obvious distress in public. However, I'm also the sort of person who if pushed, won't hesitate to drop somebody dead in their tracks. As I said, I've never killed anybody before, but I know full-well what I am capable of doing. If somebody comes after me or if they come after my family, I'll kill them dead and I won't think about it any more than I would about opening a letter or brushing my teeth.
It's not a joke either, it is who I am. I am fully, one-hundred percent, absolutely serious. This is who I am and it's what I am about. Having been through quite a bit of nastiness (at the hands of a mentally ill mother who subjected me to years of physical and psychological torture) I wound up with the novel idea in my head that I ought to do what I can to prevent random folks from having to endure torment at the hands of thugs.
EOTechRulesAll
member
When I was young I didn't have the luxury of carrying a big stick. I had to walk proudly, speak loudly, and carry no stick.
I never had the luxury of being able to fall back on a gun as a last-resort defense as a youth. My first defense (and strongest defense) was to put up the most defiant front/image that I could put up, as soon as trouble began to emerge, so I essentially shot the trouble down before it escalated into something I either was not equipped to handle or didn't want to have to handle.
If a man is waving a club or a knife from 20-30 feet away and threatening you, you still have the option of drawing a gun and then it either instantly ends as he backs off, or he gets shot.
As a youth, being unable to carry, I never had that option, so I was never afforded the luxury of being able to let a situation spiral that far out of control, I had to nip things before they got that far along, and that required the use of strong bluffing/threats via the sort of image I maintained and presented.
The most I ever had on me was a 7 inch combat knife, which I effectively used one time when three of my "peers" (one being a 17 year old cokehead who claimed that he was so good in hand-to-hand that he had been taken to Afghanistan to help train green berets- yes, he made this claim, and yes I know he was a cokehead as I saw him snorting one day in the parking lot of the high school) threatened to rip me out the window of a parked car (I was in the rear of this car that my friends had parked, so I clearly couldn't just drive away) unless I got out and started to fight one of them. I told them there was no way I was going to get into a fight with one of them (I sort of wanted to fight him) when two of his friends were standing by and would surely jump in. When they threatened to try to get me out the window again, I just held up my knife and told them it would be in the neck of the first person who put a hand on me. At that point, the kid who wanted to fight me, declared "I don't have time for this, I have to get to work!" and basically ran off. There were three of them, one of me (my two friends didn't count as they were unreliable and would have just laughed while I got pummeled, and then probably told me to drink it off later) what was I supposed to do? Sit there and hope they didn't try anything via the open windows? Run away on foot? Take a pummeling that I didn't need to take?
There are some situations and things where I would apologize, where I find myself regretting how it all unfolded. The above situation is not one of those instances.
EOTechRulesAll
member
If people want a run-down of my main defensive use of firearms or the bluff/threat of their use...
I've probably used the threat of a firearm to cause an attacker/group of attackers to abort attacks that were in the progress/unfolding at least 3-4 times.
The two most prominent instances being when I was 15 in Chicago and when I was 19 in my home-town, neither time did I actually have a firearm on my person (I had a knife the first time, and a knife/pepper-spray the second time).
The first time you already know about...
The second time... My dad decided to leave his carry gun home that day, for whatever reason, as we went biking. My hometown is 98% white, but for some reason a car with 5 people (2 white, 2 black, I didn't notice the race of the 5th guy) pulled up alongside me, one guy shouted "these are our railroad tracks, this is our turf!" for whatever reason he had (I was near the railroad tracks) and I just shrugged and thought nothing of it and continued to bike the opposite way from which they were going. They then pulled off to the side of the road on the shoulder and 3 of them exited the vehicle. My dad was not yet aware of what was going on, but I quickly alerted him to the situation as three of them started to rush up towards us, and I spun around, locking myself in place as I tensed up and readied to either turn back around and bike away, or confront them. I decided on confrontation.
As they got to about 50 feet away I stuck my hand in my pocket on the bulge that was in my pocket, the item just being my knife and my pepper spray next to it. I locked eyes with them and made it clear something they wouldn't like was going to be coming out of my pocket. One of them shrugged and dismissively waved his hand, then the three of them turned and went back to their car and drove off. I have no idea who they were, I had never seen them before in my life, I sure as hell was not on "their turf" as their plates were not even from this county. I have no doubt if they hadn't been run off by the pistol in the pocket bluff, they'd have kept coming and gotten close enough that I'd have had little choice but to use the pepper-spray and/or my knife.
Since then, my dad has never had another of those "I don't want to carry my gun today" days.
I could make a list, going on and on... How I've been mugged before, how I've been the victim of a telephone stalker who used to call 2-5 times per week at 2 am (this went on for over a year until my dad finally answered and told him that he ought to look in the front of his phonebook and see the page that talks about how you can call the phone-company and have them lock in the last number that called you, at which time they then will give it to the police who will be paying a visit to the owner of that number), making references to this or that, or how somebody used to message me and tell me they knew what I was wearing, etc.
I've had a lot of unusual experiences, I figure more than what my fair share ought to have been.
As for carrying... Have I ever actually drawn or had to draw my gun on anybody? No, not yet, and I'd prefer not to have to. Although I came close one day... My dad gently moved a cart out of the way in a super-market (it was blocking 90% of the isle) and a guy about his age, maybe a little older, sees that my dad just moved this lady's cart. The guy comes up and says "you're in a hell of a damn big hurry, aren't you?" and my dad just calmly says, "mind your own business" without even looking over his shoulder to make eye contact with the guy. The guy then begins to tense up and he makes a straight line for my dad, coming right up behind him. I immediately locked up in place, unbuttoned my coat so that my hand had an easy and open path to the 9mm I carry in a shoulder rig, and I made direct eyecontact with the guy as he was now coming up about 18 inches behind my dad. He did nothing, he walked right by my dad and I turned to pivoted to keep contact with him, keeping my hand in my coat, until he was about 20 feet away and going down a different isle. I told my dad that it was a bad move to talk to that guy and not watch him at the same time. My dad said "that guy was old, he was no danger, he was old" and I said "he didn't look that old, besides, he could still have had a knife or something..."
Literally, that guy cussed my dad out over nothing... All my dad had done was to gently move a cart that was blocking the isle, out of the way, without comment and without attitude, he simply moved it and tried to proceed on his way.
A lot of people have this attitude that they are entitled to bully those around them. I don't buy into that and I won't play that game their way. If they want to force me to play that game, we'll be playing it my way, and they won't like my way.
As somebody previously alluded to, in a cynical fashion. I'm not some super-hero type, if I was a comic book character I'd be an anti-hero. I believe in giving people what they give you. If somebody is giving me grief, I am all for giving them so much grief they won't ever want to even case a house again, let alone rob it.
To the people who know me, I'm neither disturbed nor crazy, just unconventional. I help people with their baggage, I help old ladies load their groceries into their car (as middle aged people and people in my peer age group stand by and do nothing), and I do a lot of other stuff along similar lines. So most people who know me, see me as helpful yet "eccentric" (for my numerous instances of saying rapists should be executed, executions should take the form of public hanging, victims/families of victims should get to decide the punishment -if they decide to punish rather than forgive- and other things of that nature).
I won't deny for a second that I am eccentric and hard to handle, but I'm the sort of person who can either be your best friend, an advocate on your behalf, somebody who would gladly strap on his armor, pick up his rifle, and wade through knee-deep water to get you out of trouble if you were in a Katrina style situation (for a few relatives, my wife, a few best friends, I would do this), or I can be somebody who would pray for your demise or your just rewards (for a few people I have prayed as much). I'm pretty much a reflection of the person who is interacting with me. What they give is what they get. If you come up and throw a punch at me, over nothing, you're going to get one back.
I've probably used the threat of a firearm to cause an attacker/group of attackers to abort attacks that were in the progress/unfolding at least 3-4 times.
The two most prominent instances being when I was 15 in Chicago and when I was 19 in my home-town, neither time did I actually have a firearm on my person (I had a knife the first time, and a knife/pepper-spray the second time).
The first time you already know about...
The second time... My dad decided to leave his carry gun home that day, for whatever reason, as we went biking. My hometown is 98% white, but for some reason a car with 5 people (2 white, 2 black, I didn't notice the race of the 5th guy) pulled up alongside me, one guy shouted "these are our railroad tracks, this is our turf!" for whatever reason he had (I was near the railroad tracks) and I just shrugged and thought nothing of it and continued to bike the opposite way from which they were going. They then pulled off to the side of the road on the shoulder and 3 of them exited the vehicle. My dad was not yet aware of what was going on, but I quickly alerted him to the situation as three of them started to rush up towards us, and I spun around, locking myself in place as I tensed up and readied to either turn back around and bike away, or confront them. I decided on confrontation.
As they got to about 50 feet away I stuck my hand in my pocket on the bulge that was in my pocket, the item just being my knife and my pepper spray next to it. I locked eyes with them and made it clear something they wouldn't like was going to be coming out of my pocket. One of them shrugged and dismissively waved his hand, then the three of them turned and went back to their car and drove off. I have no idea who they were, I had never seen them before in my life, I sure as hell was not on "their turf" as their plates were not even from this county. I have no doubt if they hadn't been run off by the pistol in the pocket bluff, they'd have kept coming and gotten close enough that I'd have had little choice but to use the pepper-spray and/or my knife.
Since then, my dad has never had another of those "I don't want to carry my gun today" days.
I could make a list, going on and on... How I've been mugged before, how I've been the victim of a telephone stalker who used to call 2-5 times per week at 2 am (this went on for over a year until my dad finally answered and told him that he ought to look in the front of his phonebook and see the page that talks about how you can call the phone-company and have them lock in the last number that called you, at which time they then will give it to the police who will be paying a visit to the owner of that number), making references to this or that, or how somebody used to message me and tell me they knew what I was wearing, etc.
I've had a lot of unusual experiences, I figure more than what my fair share ought to have been.
As for carrying... Have I ever actually drawn or had to draw my gun on anybody? No, not yet, and I'd prefer not to have to. Although I came close one day... My dad gently moved a cart out of the way in a super-market (it was blocking 90% of the isle) and a guy about his age, maybe a little older, sees that my dad just moved this lady's cart. The guy comes up and says "you're in a hell of a damn big hurry, aren't you?" and my dad just calmly says, "mind your own business" without even looking over his shoulder to make eye contact with the guy. The guy then begins to tense up and he makes a straight line for my dad, coming right up behind him. I immediately locked up in place, unbuttoned my coat so that my hand had an easy and open path to the 9mm I carry in a shoulder rig, and I made direct eyecontact with the guy as he was now coming up about 18 inches behind my dad. He did nothing, he walked right by my dad and I turned to pivoted to keep contact with him, keeping my hand in my coat, until he was about 20 feet away and going down a different isle. I told my dad that it was a bad move to talk to that guy and not watch him at the same time. My dad said "that guy was old, he was no danger, he was old" and I said "he didn't look that old, besides, he could still have had a knife or something..."
Literally, that guy cussed my dad out over nothing... All my dad had done was to gently move a cart that was blocking the isle, out of the way, without comment and without attitude, he simply moved it and tried to proceed on his way.
A lot of people have this attitude that they are entitled to bully those around them. I don't buy into that and I won't play that game their way. If they want to force me to play that game, we'll be playing it my way, and they won't like my way.
As somebody previously alluded to, in a cynical fashion. I'm not some super-hero type, if I was a comic book character I'd be an anti-hero. I believe in giving people what they give you. If somebody is giving me grief, I am all for giving them so much grief they won't ever want to even case a house again, let alone rob it.
To the people who know me, I'm neither disturbed nor crazy, just unconventional. I help people with their baggage, I help old ladies load their groceries into their car (as middle aged people and people in my peer age group stand by and do nothing), and I do a lot of other stuff along similar lines. So most people who know me, see me as helpful yet "eccentric" (for my numerous instances of saying rapists should be executed, executions should take the form of public hanging, victims/families of victims should get to decide the punishment -if they decide to punish rather than forgive- and other things of that nature).
I won't deny for a second that I am eccentric and hard to handle, but I'm the sort of person who can either be your best friend, an advocate on your behalf, somebody who would gladly strap on his armor, pick up his rifle, and wade through knee-deep water to get you out of trouble if you were in a Katrina style situation (for a few relatives, my wife, a few best friends, I would do this), or I can be somebody who would pray for your demise or your just rewards (for a few people I have prayed as much). I'm pretty much a reflection of the person who is interacting with me. What they give is what they get. If you come up and throw a punch at me, over nothing, you're going to get one back.
Treo
member
I Think I Found The Problem
See Geckotech here's the problem we have combat veterans of several wars (probably several countries) posting here,and THEY haven't seen as much SHTF as you claim to have.
I'm W/ taurus owner I am absolutely convinced that you saw the Mall Ninja threads and decided you could do better. Good job! ROFLMAO
And the Gecko45 award for best actor in a Mall Ninja thread goes to
EOTechrulesall!
See Geckotech here's the problem we have combat veterans of several wars (probably several countries) posting here,and THEY haven't seen as much SHTF as you claim to have.
I'm W/ taurus owner I am absolutely convinced that you saw the Mall Ninja threads and decided you could do better. Good job! ROFLMAO
And the Gecko45 award for best actor in a Mall Ninja thread goes to
EOTechrulesall!
csmkersh
Member
Axhead77,
You're first mistake, and a very serious one at that, was going to your home. He now knows where you live. When you became aware he was following, you should have detoured, gone to a public place like a stop-n-go convenience store, and entered. If he followed you in, get his plate immediately and call the police. BTDT.
Yes, I was armed. If I'm dressed, I'm armed. Immaterial. The object is to avoid trouble, not seek it.
EOTechRulesAll
member
If I was him I would be worried about that guy possibly coming back later when it is night-time, or when he figures nobody will be home, for whatever nefarious purpose he has in mind (burglary, arson, etc).
NEVER let somebody in that situation follow you home or otherwise learn your address.
Granted he probably could have gotten the address by running a search on the OP's plate, but still, that's no cause to make it easier for him.
Treo
member
Axehead My Apollogies
Sorry I participated in the attempted comedic thread jack.
What can I say the hasn't been said before
Call 911 earlier +1
Don't go home +1
NEVER EVER use a gun to intimidate anyone. +1
NEVER bluff +2
Can't add much to that
Sorry I participated in the attempted comedic thread jack.
What can I say the hasn't been said before
Call 911 earlier +1
Don't go home +1
NEVER EVER use a gun to intimidate anyone. +1
NEVER bluff +2
Can't add much to that
EOTechRulesAll
member
Okay, but I didn't actually type the word... I apologize if I offended any sensibilities. However, the one thing I really cannot stand is being labeled as somebody I am not. If the mods get around to it, they will run ISP and IP scans. When they verify I am not anybody else, I am just who I am, me, I would hope folks who have said otherwise will apologize and/or let it go (I'll settle for their just letting it go).
I may have lost my cool, but the other gentleman is so far out of line, with his baseless claim that I am somebody I am not, that I can barely form a civil response to him. Thus I am going to exit this thread lest any further disruptions be caused by my presence here. If I am the source of the trouble, it leaves with me. If I am not the source but am the target, then those seeking to elicit a response from me, cannot do so if I am not active in this thread any further.
I apologize for any disruptions I caused or was a part of.
EOTechRulesAll
member
It wasn't a hijack, I was relating a story about my limited experiences with idiots on the highway/road. Isn't that how it works? A sort of campfire circle setting where we all speak of the similar experiences we have had?
As far as that goes. Some people will have no experiences, some will have a small amount, some will have a large amount, and some will have a massive amount. I count myself as somebody who has more than the average. Indeed there has to be people who have more experiences than the average.
I remember an article on a second amendment site about a jewelry store owner who survived being robbed upwards of a half-dozen times in two years, shot twice, who killed multiple attackers over the course of the two years (I think it was two years), before he finally closed up the shop. Granted he was a jewelry store owner, but it just goes to show you, some people have more than their fair share of experiences to relate. Some are fortunate and have never been in a situation that gives them a story to relate to others.
EOTechRulesAll
member
I agree on point 1 and point 2. With point 3 I would make it conditional and say "never use a gun to illegally intimidate somebody" since you can legally intimidate a knife-yielding maniac by drawing on him and letting know to drop it or else you'll drop him. That is intimidation.
With point four, sometimes bluffing is all you have left to do... A hope, a prayer, and a strong bluff... It beats just the hope and the prayer.
Here's a couple suggestions for how to handle this in the future. First, be sure he is really following you. Take a couple nonsensical turns that end up backtracking (for example, four right turns in a row). Second, call the police on your cell phone from inside the car. Third, DO NOT GO HOME! You don't want the creep to know where you live. Fourth, drive to the nearest police station.
357WheelGun
Member
If something so small as a claimed mis-identification frustrates you to the point at which you "can barely form a civil response", you need to take a long, hard look at yourself and potentially seek some anger management counseling.
The three word solution to most of life's problems: Let. It. Go.
EOTechRulesAll
member
357-
I don't mean mistaken identity, I mean when somebody deliberately labels me as a known troll. I assume that the man he claims I am, is a troll of some sort?
I don't mean mistaken identity, I mean when somebody deliberately labels me as a known troll. I assume that the man he claims I am, is a troll of some sort?
SASS#23149
Member
For the record..
were the children in the car? I mean if he had started swinging,they were in the car at that time?
That point is a bit unclear to me.
If they were in the car,I would shoot before he got the 1st hit in,right afteder a very LOUD AND MEANINGFUL warning to the jerk.
Now,ask yourself about your choice of weapon you carry,remembering that idiots seem to be everywhere these days.
Glad you and the family are ok.
were the children in the car? I mean if he had started swinging,they were in the car at that time?
That point is a bit unclear to me.
If they were in the car,I would shoot before he got the 1st hit in,right afteder a very LOUD AND MEANINGFUL warning to the jerk.
Now,ask yourself about your choice of weapon you carry,remembering that idiots seem to be everywhere these days.
Glad you and the family are ok.
Treo
member
No that's not intimidation that's a statement that you intend to use deadly force, intimidation is when you go to put the gun in the glove box and casually let the tailgater see it. Ok course no one would actually do that right?
I never bluff when it comes to guns, if I touch it at all it's because you (generic) have got me scared enough to really believe I'm going to die if I don't there's no bluff in that if you (generic) don't stand down I will shoot
Today, 08:33 AM
SamTuckerMTNMAN
Member
force necessary
Since he had a bat he ha a deadly weapon. If you feel that you could defend in court that you or your family were in immediate danger from this individual; in light of his gestures, approach, following after your retreat, and presence onto your property, then use of deadly force for self defense could be justified. Really it would hinge on his approach to your family with a bat and apparent willingness to use the bat to get out his issues.
take care,
st
Since he had a bat he ha a deadly weapon. If you feel that you could defend in court that you or your family were in immediate danger from this individual; in light of his gestures, approach, following after your retreat, and presence onto your property, then use of deadly force for self defense could be justified. Really it would hinge on his approach to your family with a bat and apparent willingness to use the bat to get out his issues.
take care,
st
Huh? Your friends were in the South African Army? In America's secret covert ops campaign in Namibia?
Anyway, for the OP, I think you did fine, and yes, ultimately would have been justified shooting in self defense if he started smashing your windows in. However, could have gotten ugly legally in the short term, so I would thank your quick witted wife.
357WheelGun
Member
That does not invalidate my point. The fact that you think it does is suggestive. If I got bent out of shape every time someone called me a name on an internet forum I'd never have a moment of enjoyment in life.
I say again: Let. It. Go. You'll be happier and you'll live longer.
CYANIDEGENOCIDE
Member
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2008
- Messages
- 476
Is it legal to draw with intent to stop an attack? I was under the impression if the gun is coming out you are dropping into stance with a finger depressing the trigger. As it was explained to me the gun is the last defense, not second to last. So legally you can't even say stop or ill shoot, or show the gun; because a warning is essentially a threat "if you don't do X or stop doing X I will cause you bodily harm".
CYANIDE, it probably depends largely on state law.
I think you're far more likely not to be prosecuted if you're in a situation like the OP, he was on his property and the guy was coming at him in a threatening manner. If he had drawn and said something like: "Don't come any closer!" and that had stopped the attack, I think he'd have done just fine by the law.
I think you're far more likely not to be prosecuted if you're in a situation like the OP, he was on his property and the guy was coming at him in a threatening manner. If he had drawn and said something like: "Don't come any closer!" and that had stopped the attack, I think he'd have done just fine by the law.
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