RealGun
Member
This thread makes decisions about what is or is not on topic appear to be quite arbitrary.
From a US Ranger in Irag
- Thread starter ravnew
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On the plus side, at least then we'd have a tangible metric by which to determine how close we are to winning. With a population of 25 million, and a generous estimate of 600,000 dead Iraqis, we're 2.4% of the way to our final goal. And that took only 4 years. If we can get the Iraqi's birthrate to equal their natural death rate, close off immigration, and maintain our op tempo, we'll have things sewed up in only another 163 years.nobody_special said:
Anybody got a better method of measuring our progess?
Titan6
member
Let me see. Saddam is dictator of America. He has two sadistic kids who feed my friends alive to lions in the basement of their home and cruelly kills everyone who gets in his way.
The Chinese invade and overthrow him and install socialism as the only form of government. Yep, after Saddam is good and gone I start fighting the Chinese. Because I do not want to be a socialist.
The Chinese invade and overthrow him and install socialism as the only form of government. Yep, after Saddam is good and gone I start fighting the Chinese. Because I do not want to be a socialist.
Malone LaVeigh
Member
Like he said, rational. There's a good working definition of "irrational", something along the lines of "continuing to do the same failed action while expecting a different result."nemoaz said:
Edited for proper attribution.
Titan6
member
Benjamin Franklin said; ''Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result''. I happen to agree fully. A workable plan is needed.
The establishment of a viable, sustainable elected government in the middle east is an extremely valuable goal for the US. A free Iraq would also be the worst possible outcome for Islamic fundamentalists in the region. The insurgents attacking US and Iraqi forces in Iraq aren't Iraqis, they are Syrians and Iranians.
The left and the media have a vested interest in our failure in Iraq. Victory would be devasting for them, since they have been so opposed to the war.
Bush declared victory in major operations 4 years ago, and he was correct. Those trying to spin it any other way are anti-Bush. Period.
I'm tired of people sniping at the President and hindering our soldiers' moral for political gain. The same people the gripe about the 4 year long war, or say they support our troops, but not their mission, have the blood of our soldiers on their hands. They embolden and give hope to our enemy, while demoralizing and belittling our own troops.
If you "support our troops but not the war," you are supporting our enemies.
The left and the media have a vested interest in our failure in Iraq. Victory would be devasting for them, since they have been so opposed to the war.
Bush declared victory in major operations 4 years ago, and he was correct. Those trying to spin it any other way are anti-Bush. Period.
I'm tired of people sniping at the President and hindering our soldiers' moral for political gain. The same people the gripe about the 4 year long war, or say they support our troops, but not their mission, have the blood of our soldiers on their hands. They embolden and give hope to our enemy, while demoralizing and belittling our own troops.
If you "support our troops but not the war," you are supporting our enemies.
Except that in the Middle East, when opened to free and fair elections, votes for Islamic 'fundamentalists.' The last time a nation-state in the region elected a secular democratic government was Iran, circa 1952. We overthrew that government for being insufficiently amenable to our business needs. (Turkey doesn't count - the only reason they were a secular state was the constant threat of a military coup should an 'Islamist' be elected.)
That's the catch-22 in all of this. Were we to accomplish our goal of an Iraqi democracy - it would, within a matter of years if not weeks, become Iran Jr..
The only way you establish a secular democracy in Iraq is to make it a puppet regime of the United States, constantly and eternally backed with a threat of force from our military.
Evidence?
Titan6
member
Slightly out to lunch. Iraqi's are of course attacking American troops everyday. But every single other country in the region has been sending manpower to the fight. Jordan, SA, everybody... They have caught people of every mid eastern nationality. There are literally tons of published accounts....
I don't think "sending" is quite the right term. Certainly people from the countries you list are traveling to Iraq to take a shot at the US military and to demoralize the Iraqis, but I'd argue that the Syrian and Iranian governments are probably the only nations actually "sending" manpower.
In the case of Iran and Syria, insurgents of many different origins have been killed while carrying weapons of recent Iranian manufacture. Post invasion of Iraq production.
This has become a war of wills. That's why bombers attack the opening ceremony of a new school, or at the soccer game of 12 year-old boys. They know there are people in this country without the stomach to go the distance. I'm not one of them. And yes, I have immediate family and friends serving in Iraq. They have the stomach, too.
The insurgents are using the media and the anti-US, anti-Bush crowd to their advantage.
Titan6
member
When the government puts volunteers on the bus and orders the bus to drive to Baghdad I call that sending (Jordan). This is a way for them to get rid of their radical elements of the population. It works for us too as we get rid of the terrorists.
A story as old as warfare itself.
Malone LaVeigh
Member
Too bad the Bush admin didn't do anything to achieve that goal. Instead moved the proverbial bull into the Iraqi china shop bazaar, wishing (upon a star?) that they would greet us as liberators. Jimminy Cricket doesn't make for good foreign policy.
Autolycus
Member
Yes because a free Iraq is what the Iraqi people want. I seem to remember them voting in a Muslim extremist government. So we get another Iran because they want to be free. ANd then where will the US Government intervene next? Why not just let those people be?
Titan,
Missed that story about Jordan. But it illustrates the value in having a foreign frontline for the WOT.
Yes, we've lost thousands of soldiers, but who among Bush's detractors can honestly claim that they foresaw the US going 5.5 years without a major terrorist success on US soil under the president's watch?
We're killing terrorists and jihadists by scores in Iraq, and all they have to swing at is our strongest and best-prepared (volunteer) citizen soldiers. Each soldier's life is a serious loss, but not without purpose or benefit for our country.
Missed that story about Jordan. But it illustrates the value in having a foreign frontline for the WOT.
Yes, we've lost thousands of soldiers, but who among Bush's detractors can honestly claim that they foresaw the US going 5.5 years without a major terrorist success on US soil under the president's watch?
We're killing terrorists and jihadists by scores in Iraq, and all they have to swing at is our strongest and best-prepared (volunteer) citizen soldiers. Each soldier's life is a serious loss, but not without purpose or benefit for our country.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Whee! No limits to off-topic!
Fun, ain't it?
Art
Fun, ain't it?
Art
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