Getting started in 3 gun

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Correia

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I have had a few members PM me for my opinions on how to get started in 3 gun.

First off you need to find a match. There isn't really a governing national body for 3gun. Most of the large matches are independant, and the rest of the matches are put on by local clubs. Rules and allowable equipment varies from club to club. I would say your best bet is to contact your local IDPA or IPSC club and ask the people there about what is available locally.

Equipment: Right off the bat, don't spend big bucks on equipment. I have seen too many folks feel the need to get the big bling bling before they will go out and shoot. However one of two things happen, either they never collect the bling so they never actually shoot in a match, or they spend a small fortune on gear only to find out that what sounded great in a gun magazine or on the internet just plain didn't work for them in reality.

Rifle

You will need a military style rifle. If you have an AR, AK, FAL, M1a or something like that you are probably good to go. To start out you don't need fancy optics. Many local club matches are limited to 100 yards due to range restrictions, so the Leopold MkIV may not be totally neccesary. The most common rifle in 3gun is some sort of AR variant. However you can shoot in a local match with just about anything.

Make sure you bring some spare magazines. Many COFs will call for rifle mag changes. Or since rifle mags take a while to load, load up half a dozen the night before. It will save you valuable time at the match if you aren't screwing around trying to load magazines between strings. Bring along an empty magazine as well, just in case there is a stage that requires you to start with a set number of rounds in the gun. It is easier to load 10 into an empty mag than it is to remove 20 from a full one. :)

When you first start out you will probably be just fine sticking rifle mags in your pockets. However this well and truely sucks after awhile and you are going to go way slow. :) Watch what the other shooters use, and experiment around until you find a mag pouch that works for you. Military style mag pouches protect the magazines well, but they are often very slow to draw from. Like I said, find what works for you.

You don't need an LBV for your rifle gear. LBVs are great if you are packing your gear a long ways, or if you are shooting 3gun as a method of hard core training and that is what you would use in reality, however the LBV is not at all neccesary, and like I said above, like military mag pouches the LBV can be much slower to draw from than a simple belt pouch or kydex unit.

Optics are good if you normally use optics. However you don't need to break the bank if you don't have any. I have used nothing but iron sights for the last few years, and only now am I giving some serious thought to getting myself some optics. Iron sight shooters can hang in there just fine, and many clubs and matches have a seperate division for iron sights vs. optics.

Shotgun

You don't need a tweaked out 1100 or Benelli to shoot 3 gun. You can start out with any old pump. After awhile if you want to upgrade your equipment you always can.

If you don't have a shotgun and you want to start out cheap, go get yourself a used Remington 870, or a Mossberg 500, or a Winchester 1300. Any of these are available for close to $200.

The only accesory that I think is an immediate must have is a mag tube extension. The key to doing well with a shotgun in 3gun is keeping that thing loaded. So if you are starting out with 2 more rounds in the gun, then that is 2 less that you are probably going to have to load later.

You can start out by putting spare shells into your pockets, but that will get real old, real quick. Find some way to carry your shells so that they are always in the same place, and always facing the same direction. There are tons of different ways to accomplish this. Bandoleers, belts, shell caddies, side saddles, butt cuffs, arm bands, I've seen all sorts of stuff out there, and honestly I don't think that there is one best way to do it, it all depends on what works best for you.

Pistol

Be sure to check your local clubs rules. Some matches forbid the use of IPSC style open pistols. Our club allows them, but they need to shoot in open class. Some clubs don't allow them at all.

Now pretty much any regular old defensive style pistol will work. Use your regular gear.

You will need a good holster. If you are using one of those horrible thumb break nylon flop around on your belt holsters, throw it in the river. Immediatly. You can find a good holster for around $20-$30. If you want to start out cheap get yourself a Fobus or an Uncle Mikes kydex rig.

If you are coming from an IPSC background, and you use an open speed holster, be extreamly careful. Those holsters were designed for one thing, and that is to provide a super fast draw. They do this by barely holding the gun. :) You are fine at a pistol match where the most athletic thing the holster needs to hold the pistol for is walking to the line. Once you start the running and stuff the gun is in your hand. A 3 gun holster needs to hold your pistol while you are manipulating your long guns, running, crawling, going prone, etc. At my local club we have had 2 IPSC holsters lose their pistols during a stage. Be careful.



Practice

3gun is great because it is a challenge on so many levels. You really need to become good with all 3 guns.

With your rifle practice engaging targets rapidly. From pistol distance to as far out as your range allows. Practice from any position you can think of. Forget about shooting itty bitty pretty little groups. If you are doing that you will be going too slow. Figure out just how good of a sight picture you are going to need at each range to get your hits fast.

Don't screw around when you manipulate your rifle. Practice mag changes and malfunction clearance drills like you would with your pistol.

With your shotgun practice shooting fast. Pattern your gun. Find a good method to reload fast and devote hours to it until it becomes second nature. If you need to contort yourself to load your shotgun then you are doing it wrong.

Hope this answers some questions. If anybody has any other advice or questions please post them.
 
OK, Correia, here's a ? for ya. At the last two 3-gun matches I've done, my buckshot patterns were all over the board and consequently, I took several shots to knock down some steel targets. I have a 18.5" cylinder barrel on my 870, but have been considering getting it threaded for a choke. What would be your advice on this issue, and if you recommend threading, what choke do you recommend?
 
First thing I would do would be to try a couple different brands of buck shot. Some of the ones out there can be very inconsistent.

I've have never put a new choke on a shotgun, other than factory screw ins. I would recommend posting the question over in shotguns and let Dave McCracken or one of those fellows answer.

I have used Open, IC, and Modified. It depends on the gun. I have a Saiga that is labeled as modified but it throws full choke like patterns.
 
It is said that 3Gun is won by shooting the pistol fast, shooting the rifle accurately, and reloading the shotgun fast.

I posted this a while back:
Loading a shotgun is super-slow
One thing to consider is that it takes a heck of a long time to load rounds into a shotgun when compared to the load time for a semi-auto rifle or pistol.

For a pistol, it takes approximately 1.2 seconds to change mags (if you've practiced a bit). For an AR-15, it takes a little bit more than that - maybe two seconds.

In those two weapons, you start off with between 9 (e.g. a 1911 with 8+1) and 31 rounds available, and reloading is fairly rare.

For a shotgun, to load a single shell takes about two seconds for someone of average ability. The best shotgun shooters in 3gun load faster than one shell per second. I think I currently at about 1.6 seconds per shell (load 3 at once). Fumbling a reload is much easier with shells vs. reloading a pistol magazine, and you have an opportunity to fumble each shell, not just per mag.

So it will take an average person 6-10 seconds to load four shotshells into a shotgun - assuming it hasn't been run dry - and they have the opportunity to fumble each of those four shells.

That is one important reason capacity is important in a shotgun.

In 3Gun, shotgun capacity is important because if you plan to load only as many as you need to shoot, and then shoot (and reload) to that plan, every round you can have in the gun at the start buzzer instead of loading later will knock a full 1-2 seconds off your time.

-z
 
Mr Correia,

Have you shot the Saiga in 3-gun competition? How did it do? Is it competitive with the ubertactical shoutguns like the Benelli? What do you think of the various "He-Man" and "Ironman" classes that some matches have?

Just my .02,
LeonCarr
 
Good post Correia,

I always get guys coming up to me at my tables at gun shows or calling me afterwards and asking me about shooting 3-gun. I ask if they have the reguired guns, they say yeah..I tell em to go get some bullets, and get out and shoot! The best way to get into it is get off your butt, find out where the matches are, and get out and shoot em, period. I think I brought about 15 new shooters to our matches this last season. They didn`t have any wazoo gear or equipment, they brought what they had and had fun.

I think alot of guys are more worried about looking stupid that just going out and having fun. I tell em right off, don`t expect to come out and kick butt at your first match, but take what you learn and apply it, so next match you will be that much farther ahead. I have one friend who started this year for example. He shot a WWII 1911 reloading from his pockets, his AR-15 service rifle ( he`s a high power shooter ), and his son`s 5 shot 20 ga. 870. He finished dead last and had a ball doing it. He took what he learned that first time ( and I loaned him some extra gear) and improved the next match. I think alot of what keeps the new guys shooting in 3 gun is the people they shoot with. I usually shoot with the same group of guys, so when one of us brings a new shooter to a match, we all take them in as "one of the guys". They will feel much more comfortable in a setting when they are cheered on and patted on the back for a good job, told good run, ect.. than they will if they have a clickish group of guys standing back critiquing thier every move. That`s not what it`s all about im my opinion.

It really kills me when guys have all this gear, but don`t think they are ready to shoot a match because they can`t run with the big dogs. I`ll say it again.. get out and shoot!!! The only way they will see if they can hang is getting out there and doing it. There is no magic gun, bullet, or piece of gear that is going to automatically make you a better shooter, yes, better equipment will help improve your score, but the person pulling the trigger making the shots happen is what it all comes down to. When I first started shooting 3 gun I had no clue what I was doing, but I was having fun and kept at it. There is alot more to it than just shooting 3 different guns. The shooter has to be able to shoot from goofy, contorted positions, shooting on the move, and smooth reloads will help your scores tremendously, and that`s just the start.

I am always willing to help new shooters get started. If any of you guys out there in the Southeastern Michigan area are interested in learning how to play our game, drop me a line and I`ll get ya set up.

CS#158
 
www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30881&highlight=saiga Here was my initial review of the Saiga. After that thread I've used it in several 3 gun matches. It has the best reliability of any semi auto shotgun that I have ever seen. And it shoots very fast. My opinion of it has gone up as I have used it. The main hinderance is the lack of availability of magazines over 5 rounds. 8 rounders are out there but they are rare. And noboby can seem to figure out if they are illegal or not. According to the wording of the crime bill they are fine, (no pistol grip, no fixed magazine greater than 5 rounds, detachable mag is an evil feature, but it never states detachable greater than 5). But I think the ATF figures they go against the SPIRIT of the law. :rolleyes: So most vendors are afraid to sell them to anybody outside of LE. The other main downside is they kind of suck for a simple select slug drill, you need to load a new magazine. Great gun, and if the crime bill goes away I'm expecting to see a bunch of these show up in matches when the higher cap magazines are readily available.

I think He Man class is a great idea. I think that they should have to use pump shotguns though. :) It hasn't been an issue in our local matches, as those of us who occasionally shoot .308 rifles have not really made a fuss. We just shoot in our limited class. Personally I love shooting .308 but the ammo costs too much. :) Even loading my own, it still costs more than .223 or even better 7.62x39 (my last case of that cost $80 out the door!)

Chandler, I totally agree.

Part of the problem with 3 gun is that the other shooters keep getting better. :D I just got my results back from our New Years Day match. I did pretty good I thought. If I had shot like I did on New Years a couple of years ago I probably would have won the match or at least been in the top few shooters. This time I was 9th. :D Our regular crop of shooters just keeps getting better and better every match.

And that makes it even funner.
 
Mr. Correia,

Thanks for the great response. How does the CETME .308 fare in 3-gun matches in your experience? Are they worth it, or are they junk? I was just wondering if anybody has been successful with them.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr
 
MLC, I would say try www.uspsa.org ( I don't know what area you are in though) and try www.idpa.com/clubs/CLUBLIST.HTM and click on your state. Contact those folks and somebody is bound to be able to steer you in the right direction.

Leon, I have not personally used a Cetme in competition, and I can't think of anybody in my local club that has either. I have a friend with one who likes it very much and has put quite a few rounds through it with no problem, but he competes with an AR. If that is what you have though, take that thing to a match and have fun.
 
MLC, Topton usually runs a 3-gun once a year, Old Bridge in NJ normally runs either a rifle or shotgun side match with their monthly IPSC match, York IWLA has runs combo pistol/rifle and pistol/shotgun on alternate months. Old Bridge is running a tactical 3 gun 10/25/2004. Info on all these clubs can be found on the USPSA site referenced on the previous posts. Look at Area 8.
 
Larry,

With shotgun, are you required to use shot? I've been doing a good bit of practice with Rem Reduced Recoil Slugs in the past year...

Johnh
 
John, depends on the match.

Locally we use shot on the steel plate targets, because slugs destroy them quickly. When we use slugs we have paper targets designated for slug use.
 
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