Glock 17 + lead no fighting please

[birddog2]

Just acquired a Glock 17 Gen 4, my first and only Glock. I have loaded thousands of lead 9mm rounds for my other 9's without issue. My question is with reasonable cleaning, has anyone experienced any real problems with leading? Again, not knowing much about Glocks. Just asking, not trying to stir up a bunch of s**t. A simple yes or no will suffice. Thanks in advance.
Regards,

 

[ramboo]

You have no choice but to shoot reloads through the stock Glock barrel, they won't chamber in the lone wolf barrel without modification. Maybe they will in other aftermarket barrels.

 

[david_r]

huh?

 

[foolsgold80z]

Shoot it. Clean it. Repeat as desired.

 

[billybob44]

You have no choice but to shoot reloads through the stock Glock barrel, they won't chamber in the lone wolf barrel without modification. Maybe they will in other aftermarket barrels.

I have TWO different Lone Wolf barrels, in two different Glocks..The reloads (Cast,Plated,+Jacketed) shoot just fine..Bill.

 

[hAkron]

You have no choice but to shoot reloads through the stock Glock barrel, they won't chamber in the lone wolf barrel without modification. Maybe they will in other aftermarket barrels.

Can you explain this? I'm not sure i understand what you mean. The stock Glock 17 chamber is pretty loose, so if you determined your OAL in a stock Glock barrel chamber and then tried to shoot those loads out of an aftermarket barrel, then I could understand this perception, but other than that I really don't get what you are saying.

 

[ljnowell]

Can you explain this? I'm not sure i understand what you mean. The stock Glock 17 chamber is pretty loose, so if you determined your OAL in a stock Glock barrel chamber and then tried to shoot those loads out of an aftermarket barrel, then I could understand this perception, but other than that I really don't get what you are saying.

Lone wolf has a reputation for putting out barrels that are too tight to shoot lead bullets worth a poop. Too short of a leade to shoot 1/2 the profiles available and too tight of a chamber. I had a 45acp barrel that wouldnt even reliably chamber FACTORY 45 acp hardball. That, coupled with the owners absolute arrogance, has driven people away as of late. If you go to the glock talk reloading forum there is a locked thread where the owner of Lone wolf came in and was a complete jackwagon to all the guys there. It was nearly incredible. Then he had people register usernames to come in and make thier first post praising his product. The whole thing was pretty sad.

That being said, I'm not sure what LoneWolf has to do with the stock barrel and shooting lead. OP, IMO, load some and test them. If you get leading , tweak the load. Try a different powder, etc. My G21 loves both 12 and 18bhn lead bullets. In particular the Missouri Bullet 230gr LRN(Softball) and the 200gr RNFP(IDP#4-XD).

 

[birddog2]

This is why I started the post like I did wasn't trying to start a pissing match, thanks foolsgold80 and ljnowell
John

 

[GLOOB]

In my experience, when a glock barrel fouls, it fouls badly. But if you have it right, no problem. You can shoot quite a bit without cleaning. Also, the glock barrels are the easiest to clean.

 

[ObsidianOne]

This is something I wanted to know as well, but for plated/FMJ reloads.
It seems there is so much misinformation out there, and it's hard to know what to believe.
I've heard you can't shoot reloaded ammo at all, I've heard just not lead.
Then I've heard that the barrel has polygonal rifling and that is what causes the issue and instead to get an aftermarket barrel.
Heard it was an unsupported chamber issue in the past, etc.
I have no idea what to believe :banghead:

 

[LiveLife]

Oh my, we've been through this before ... and OP mentioned nothing about using an aftermarket barrel.

with reasonable cleaning, has anyone experienced any real problems with leading?

If you read CAREFULLY, OP posted "WITH REASONABLE CLEANING, has anyone experienced ANY REAL PROBLEMS WITH LEADING?"

NO.


Glock barrels have very smooth rounded rifling surfaces with gradual start of rifling that allow lead bullets to slide into the barrel longer before building up chamber pressures to seal the bullet with the barrel (obturation) which causes more high pressure gas to leak around the bullet and result in more/faster fouling build up near the chamber area.

When I shoot lead rounds in factory Glock barrels, I inspect the barrel after 200-300 rounds and look for any build up inside the barrel, especially near the chamber area that may obstruct the bullet and increase chamber pressure. If I see any fouling build up (which will vary by type of lead alloy, lube, powder/charge used), I will clean the barrel before I resume shooting. Another thing that will happen is your accuracy will start to deteriorate after 200-300 rounds.

If you do not remove significant fouling build up, you'll essentially end up with a smooth bore barrel with reduced inside diameter that may increase chamber pressure - and that's not good.


This is Glock barrel showing smooth rounded rifling with gradual start of rifling

This is barrel with square cut land/groove rifling with more abrupt start of rifling

This is Glock barrel after 100 rounds of lead rounds shot through. At the chamber end, you'll note loose flaky residue which is less of an issue but see sticky fouling build up forming at the base of rifling. At the muzzle end, you can see the start of crusty fouling build up. These fouling build up IS NOT leading and will remove easily with a quick Hoppes #9 solvent soak and copper bore brush. BTW, bullet/powder used were Missouri 125 gr RN (SmallBall) and W231/HP-38. Even after several hundred rounds, I do not get leading in Glock barrels with this load, just fouling build up.

But if you clean the barrel after inspecting every 200-300 rounds or so, you should be fine with either fouling and/or leading (if you get any).

This is something I wanted to know as well, but for plated/FMJ reloads.
It seems there is so much misinformation out there, and it's hard to know what to believe.
I've heard you can't shoot reloaded ammo at all, I've heard just not lead.

Well, many firearms manufacturers recommend to not shoot reloads in their pistols ...

Do you know what kind of ammo Glock factory team and countless other Glock match shooters use every week all across the world? Yes, reloads.

Then I've heard that the barrel has polygonal rifling and that is what causes the issue and instead to get an aftermarket barrel.

If you want to shoot a lot of lead rounds without concerns, I would recommend getting an aftermarket barrel with conventional square cut land/groove rifling. I can shoot 500+ lead rounds in Lone Wolf/KKM barrels and they'll come out with no leading or slight smearing near the chamber end. Yes, accuracy is much better than shooting lead bullets in Glock barrels.

Heard it was an unsupported chamber issue in the past, etc.
I have no idea what to believe

By Third Generation, chamber support on Glock barrels (especially 40S&W barrels) were comparable to other gun manufacturers' factory barrels.

 

[CPLofMARINES]

I didn't see the part about birddog2 asking anything about
Lonewolf barrels. Polygonal barrels in Glock's,
According to Glock will foul badly with lead. FMJ/SJ bullets
Are recommended. Aftermarket barrels designed for both
Types of bullets are available. Lead or jacketed.

Semper Fi

 

[GLOOB]

In my experience you can shoot thousands of cast bullets through a glock barrel without any loss of accuracy. If you do it right.

 

[Motownfire]

Cast bullets from Missouri Bullet Company is all I send down the stock Glock barrels of my G22, G23, G27, G17 & G26. I have never had an issue with leading, 15,000+ rounds give or take a couple.

 

[Steve C]

I quit using lead bullets in my Glock 19 over 20 years ago because of the leading and general poor accuracy. I think the lead bullets just don't engage the polygonal rifling well. A brass brush and lead bore solvent just would not take out the leading very well. Firing jacketed after lead just ironed out the leading in the bore.

A solution of 50/50 Hydrogen Peroxide and White vinegar worked as it does with any heavily leaded barrel but you need to watch the length of time you leave the solution in the bore. Once the bubbles stop you need to pour it out in a container that will hold the contaminated lead solution and rinse it clean with water then use patches with a bore cleaner afterwards oil well.

 

[gamestalker]

I have a G17 Gen 1 I bought new back in the 1980's, so I don't know what has changed with those barrels v.s. the 4th gen barrels. I also don't load with plated or non jacketed bullets either, so all I have to offer is what I've read from Glock, and heard many times from other Glock owners, that the polygonal barrel will lead up extremely fast, and will almost impregnate the barrel with lead. Heavy lead deposits can indeed increase pressures significantly, thus damaging the barrel if not cleaned out.

The Glock owners I know have replaced the factory barrel with a LW, or other after market barrel that is lead friendly.

GS

 

[Elkins45]

I have had mixed results in my second gen G19. You have to have your diameter, lube and powder combination just right to avoid leading in my experience. Once I found the right combination I could shoot a couple of hundred rounds of lead bullet reloads without serious leading.

If you decide to try it with the factory barrel you really need to keep a close eye on the lead buildup until you see if it's going to be a problem. Really bad offenders can significantly lead with just a single magazine full.

 

[OilyPablo]

Has anyone tried cleaning a heavily leaded Glock barrel with stiff brass brush or two and PBlaster followed by Kroil and elbow grease/time*? I have had great success with lead removal on old standard rifling, but I've never had a leaded Glock barrel to work with.

*Cleaning theory: Lead (Pb) is not very soluble in anything you would want to contact your gun barrel. Penetrants can get under the leading and help lift it off.

 

[ljnowell]

Why do people with no experience at all on a subject matter comment one way or the other? Its maddening at times.

 

[LiveLife]

I have used old copper bore brush wrapped with copper scrubber strands (Chore boy) to remove leading/fouling in Glock barrels. A few strokes back and forth and barrel is clean!

 

[GLOOB]

I quit using lead bullets in my Glock 19 over 20 years ago because of the leading and general poor accuracy. I think the lead bullets just don't engage the polygonal rifling well. A brass brush and lead bore solvent just would not take out the leading very well. Firing jacketed after lead just ironed out the leading in the bore.

I've had two different kinds of leading in my 9mm Glocks. First was with MBC small ball. It was easily removed by shooting plated bullets, and also easily removed by chore boys. Accuracy was decent, but not as good as plated/jacketed. I shot 2k total of these bullets. About 1k of these bullets went thru a stock G19 without a single bore cleaning, just shooting a couple plated bullets in each mag. Barrel was pristine throughout.

The other kind of leading occurred in conjuntion with my own cast bullets. This did not clean easily, and accuracy was terrible. Plated bullets did not clean the barrel, nor chore boys. I scraped the lead out with brass tubing. The problem was base of bullet was being undersized by the case. New flaring/expanding die fixed accuracy and leading. As accurate as jacketed, and far less leading than MBC. I haven't shot 1k of these new bullets, yet, but so far so great. I can't comment on cleaning, cuz so far haven't needed to.

If I had any more MBC, I'd want to try them with my new expander. I wonder if leading would be reduced and/or accuracy improved.

In contrast to my 9mm adventures, I've shot over 500 MBC cast bullets (IDP #4) out of my stock Glock 21 with basically no leading at all. Accuracy is fantastic.

 

[greyling22]

+1 to chore boy taking the lead out. It's like magic. Especially if you're not super stingy with it like I am......

But for what it's worth, here's my story of the rise and fall of lead in my glock: I was shooting a lot of lead out of my g17 with a factory barrel, cleaning it every 2-400 rounds, then one day I was shooting bang bang bang boom! the mag blew out the bottom of the gun, flame blew out between the slide and the frame, and I had to check my fingers than my drawers for damage. Everything was fine, and I was shooting in tall grass so I never found the case, but I suspect the gun didn't go fully into battery before I fired and I blew out the base of the case. I was done shooting for the day at that point, but I went home, checked the gun out, everything seemed in order, reassembled and it worked great again. I didn't notice any particularly bad fouling in the barrel.

I'm not certain it was the lead bullets fault, but thought, forget this, life is too short and fingers don't grow back, so I bought a lone wolf barrel and never had another episode.

Your mileage may vary, but for me the aftermarket barrel is cheap insurance. And you can pay for it with saving from shooting lead in well under 1k rounds.

 

[NeuseRvrRat]

sounds like a double charge

 

[ljnowell]

+1 to chore boy taking the lead out. It's like magic. Especially if you're not super stingy with it like I am......

But for what it's worth, here's my story of the rise and fall of lead in my glock: I was shooting a lot of lead out of my g17 with a factory barrel, cleaning it every 2-400 rounds, then one day I was shooting bang bang bang boom! the mag blew out the bottom of the gun, flame blew out between the slide and the frame, and I had to check my fingers than my drawers for damage. Everything was fine, and I was shooting in tall grass so I never found the case, but I suspect the gun didn't go fully into battery before I fired and I blew out the base of the case. I was done shooting for the day at that point, but I went home, checked the gun out, everything seemed in order, reassembled and it worked great again. I didn't notice any particularly bad fouling in the barrel.

I'm not certain it was the lead bullets fault, but thought, forget this, life is too short and fingers don't grow back, so I bought a lone wolf barrel and never had another episode.

Your mileage may vary, but for me the aftermarket barrel is cheap insurance. And you can pay for it with saving from shooting lead in well under 1k rounds.

Sounds like a double charge or an overcharge in general, nothing to do with lead bullets.

 

[greyling22]

don't see how it could have been. I was loading on a lee turret press that auto indexed at the time, and a double charge would have filled the case so full it should have been readily apparent when I was seating the bullet. But who knows. Stranger things have happened I suppose. I was running pretty light loads. Either way it never cropped back up, for which I am grateful.