Got my Glock frame back today...

[Strykervet]

I sent my G20 frame back because it had the ambi mag release. That design doesn't work too well (in fact, it didn't really work at all!). The problem was that a full mag could not be seated when the slide is foward. Or it wouldn't seat right. The mag would fall out. So would the mag release parts. The only way it works is if the slide is back, which doesn't happen because it won't lock back. A total piece of junk and it must be embarrasing for Glock, the maker of the "AK of pistols".

So I sent it back and demanded a new frame. They took it back no problems, they did try to stick me with the shipping but I knew about that so I demanded they cover that. They did, and now a few weeks later, I have the frame back.

They sent a new SF frame, new SN, which doesn't bother me since I built it from parts and they don't match anyway. They will give you a whole new pistol if you demand that, matching numbers. The new frame works great. They went back to the old mag release design on the SF frames.

I highly recommend anyone with a Glock that has an ambi mag release to go and try to insert a completely full mag without slamming it into a pistol with the slide foward. Chances are it will be difficult, or it won't feel right. The mag has to be full though, the problem isn't as apparent with half full mags or at all if the slide is back.

I tried this and the actual mag release fell out. That is unacceptable. I heard about the problem online before I actually shot the pistol. Problems like this out of the box? That design never should have left R&D.

If you are left handed, I'd say just suck it up, or get something else, because that ambi mag release is the worst thing to ever come out of Austria next to Hitler.

 

[4thPointOfContact]

What statistical sample are we talking about here?
How widespread does this problem seem to be?

Magazine releases aren't a problem for left-handers, it's probably easier for the trigger finger to hit the release than for right-handers.

 

[voyager4520]

I sent my G20 frame back because it had the ambi mag release. ......
They sent a new SF frame, new SN, which doesn't bother me since I built it from parts and they don't match anyway.

Oh I understand.

Yeah several of Glock's recent "design changes" look like they were drawn up by a 5 year old with a crayon and a piece of construction paper.

I can understand not offering to pay return shipping for the average "my gun is jamming" call, but when it's an obvious design flaw like that they should offer to pay shipping right up front. And they need to thoroughly test the design changes before release instead of using good paying customers, and even law enforcement officers who put their lives at risk daily with these weapons at their side, as beta testers.

 

[Strykervet]

Okay, I was reading something about the G20. I looked it up online, I forget what I was looking at. Anyway, there were folks saying the same thing I said up there, only I was the one that was skeptical. There were lots of them, and there are whole threads dedicated to it. I didn't count 'em or do a statistical analysis. I could, but I have better things to do. Looks pretty widespread though.

Bottom line is this isn't an internet rumor. I read about these not working, had just gotten the pistol, thought I'd go try it, and sure enough, they were right. I didn't want them to be right, they just were. Never made it to the range. It didn't work right out of the box. It works fine now that they swapped out the frame.

This is completely unacceptable. I have five other Glocks, all with the old style mag release, and not one has that problem. Every single one digests all ammo, never fails to operate, and the mags? Never thought about them. Never had a problem. Until then.

Good thing is that Glock is certainly aware about it and willing to do something about it. Bad thing is that you have to know what to say in order to get them to cover shipping and to get a matching frame if you desire that. I learned all that when I searched specifically for solutions to this problem. And they aren't recalling it, at least yet. From what I understand, they had enough complaints early on that they ceased manufacture of this abomination. That in and of itself says something.

Some folks say they don't have a problem. I can see how it may work for some, but it has got to be borderline. The problem is most severe and noticable when the slide is foward and the magazine is totally full. Some folks may only have this one pistol and not know the difference. As far as left handed folks go, I only mention that because I figure a lot of them were sold to them. I got it because that was the only way to get the SF frame at the time. They changed all that in a year.

I've heard about significant problems with the Gen.4 pistols too. I guess Glock doesn't have the time to test this stuff out before releasing it anymore. Maybe they just got lucky with the original design, I don't know. All they had to do to find out that the ambi release was junk was to actually test the parts to failing. Sad they did this, part of my comfort in the reliability of the Glock is knowing that over the years they work.

Now I have to wonder if they actually tested the thing, or if I am the one testing it for them. They better straighten up. They only have one line of pistol design, mess that up and they better be selling a lot of knives and shovels.

 

[voyager4520]

And they aren't recalling it, at least yet.

Glock does not recall anything unless one of their products poses a safety risk. Some might argue that a gun not working properly when your life depends on it is a safety risk.

The word "recall" also implies various legal liabilities. Instead they call them "upgrades".

 

[Strykervet]

By built from parts, understand they are factory Glock parts, every one. The recoil assembly will be swapped out after I test it, but I like to change one part at a time when I do change them to prevent problems. Now that I have the new frame, an SF frame with an old style mag release, it works great. In fact, it locks up as nice as my G17L (one of my favorites by the way). Any tighter and it probably wouldn't be reliable or work. But that wasn't the problem, the mag release was.

Yes, it does look like a five year old designed it, and obviously his little brother was the one responsible for QC because this never should have seen the light of day.

They should offer to totally cover the shipping. They should also offer to replace the whole thing or otherwise match up the SN for those that have matching ones. That was a big complaint for those that had this problem that had complete pistols. But I guess then that WOULD be a recall, right? I suppose you can call this a "silent recall". They treat it just like a recall, except they aren't advertising the fact they sold junk. I think it would behoove them to just admit they messed up. Fire the engineers and/or managers responsible, and move on.

That would totally destroy their image for having reliable pistols though. Can't have that happen because the pistol isn't reliable. They better learn their lesson soon, or they certainly will lose a customer. I don't have a problem using them as a parts company if this keeps up.

 

[Strykervet]

Glock does not recall anything unless one of their products poses a safety risk. Some might argue that a gun not working properly when your life depends on it is a safety risk.

The word "recall" also implies various legal liabilities. Instead they call them "upgrades".

True. I was thinking the same thing. That nobody has been killed changing mags and the family suing is likely the reason. Most people that depend on the weapon will find this out in practice before that happens, the rest never will know.

A good safety recall would have been the .40 barrels. Several component makers recommend not using the factory barrel with reloads. I can't be positive, but I think they have increased the area of support under the case on these pistols. I only have one .40 so I'm not sure, and my two 10's are the same generation.

That said, I haven't had a problem, but I know someone that nearly did. I use the factory barrels, and I like my Glocks. I shoot them well. But I'm not a loyal customer by any means unless you count loyalty to myself, they earned my sales. They'll have to keep earning them too, and at this rate, they aren't doing too well.

 

[USAF_Vet]

They better learn their lesson soon, or they certainly will lose a customer. I don't have a problem using them as a parts company if this keeps up.

not to nitpick, but if this is the case, they really aren't losing a customer if you're still willing to purchase products from them. A customer is stilla customer, and the money is just as green whether they are buying fully assembled guns or parts.

 

[voyager4520]

They have increased the .40 chamber support, see the picture at the bottom of this post: http://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3709603&postcount=1

Left factory '98 barrel, middle factory '09 barrel, right aftermarket LWD '09 barrel.

I've never had a problem with factory ammo in my '04 G23 or '09 G27, besides the erratic ejection of my G27.

 

[Cards81fan]

I'm confused at why you are angry. They warranted a frame that you were using in a pistol you pieced together from different parts (barrel, slide, internals, frame...) because the mag release wouldn't stay in place?

Considering they explicitly only warranty the pistol to the original owner, for one year, I think I would be rather tickled with the outcome, regardless of which pistol or company we are talking about.

 

[Strykervet]

I'm confused at why you are angry. They warranted a frame that you were using in a pistol you pieced together from different parts (barrel, slide, internals, frame...) because the mag release wouldn't stay in place?

Considering they explicitly only warranty the pistol to the original owner, for one year, I think I would be rather tickled with the outcome, regardless of which pistol or company we are talking about.

You are missing the point. They released an experimental part in a production piece. I don't care about warranty, this goes beyond warranty. It never should have been sold. You also obviously didn't read what I wrote either, because I said all the parts are factory. The entire slide, barrel, all that was from one pistol, the complete frame from another. All of it new and unused. I can assemble the slide to the frame as well as they can.

I'm not tickled because I had to deal with it at all. I'm not angry either, more disgusted and let down. Am I glad they fixed it? Yeah, but I had to find out for myself when they already knew about it, and I had to find out for myself that they will cover the shipping, etc. Not being up front isn't a far stretch from dishonesty.

As for losing or retaining a customer based on parts sales, well, if you think you can maintain a business selling $500+ handguns and then lose your customers who now only spend the ocassional $5 for a spring, be my guest. My arguement is that I won't be buying a new weapon from them anytime soon. If I buy a G24 they aren't making anything off of that, they don't make 'em anymore, they made all they will make on it already. If I buy parts they aren't making much on that either. They make money selling new handguns, period. Take that away, and they go under. Plus, I have five other Glocks, five or six, and they all work fine. I'm not liquidating them because I feel a need to boycott them absolutely. I want to keep them in working order. What I don't want is another beta product from Glock.

I like my Glocks. I've been called a Glock Guy and accused of standing up for them. Now here I am, well versed and experienced with the Glock, I have a legitimate problem that IS unacceptable, and now I'm in the wrong?

I wrote this not to bash or defend Glock. Like I said three times here already, I like Glock and I have several. One of my favorite pistols is the G17L. I wrote this to bring attention to this matter to other Glock owners. Especially the ones that have only this one and think all Glocks are like this, and to save others the time and hassle or expense of sending it back without knowing what to expect.

Do know that when you send it back, they will strip any and all non-factory parts save the sights. This wasn't a problem for me as this was all stock, but if you have a nice trigger in there or polished parts (yes, they change out polished parts too) then you may want to remove them.

Now I have nothing more to argue. This post was intended to help others that have the ambi release and either don't know they can get it fixed, or don't know about the problem period. Like I said, I found out before I ever even shot it on accident. Wish I new about the problem a year and a half ago.

Oh, the other thing is this. If you have the picatinny rail, and you really, really want that rail, then you are STUCK with ambi release. It doesn't come with a regular release, at least not yet. I wanted a picatinny when I bought this over a year ago, couldn't get it, but when I asked Glock if they could swap mine out for one of those, they said that I could have it, but I'd have to keep the ambi release. Seeing as that was why I sent it back, I opted against the other rail in lieu of a useful mag release.

They will do the right thing, but only when asked. I'm not saying they are bad, but I think they are apathetic. You have to know what to say, what to ask for, or you will be paying shipping, may be paying a dealer depending, and may get non-matching parts back. That they didn't recall it and that they didn't offer to cover this stuff up front when they knew good and well about it is what burned me.

 

[Strykervet]

They have increased the .40 chamber support, see the picture at the bottom of this post: http://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3709603&postcount=1

Left factory '98 barrel, middle factory '09 barrel, right aftermarket LWD '09 barrel.

I've never had a problem with factory ammo in my '04 G23 or '09 G27, besides the erratic ejection of my G27.

Thanks for that picture, I'm going to compare it to my barrels and see what I have. I like the stock barrels, but I like reloading too, so I'm not a fan of the early .40 barrels. My other 10mm seems not to have this problem, we'll see how this one does.

Maybe I'll give 'em a call and see if I can swap out my barrel in my G27 if that one is like the one in the picture.

 

[Warp]

I'm glad they helped you quickly.

I bought a new 30SF in March. It didn't reliably feed JHP. I sent it back. 7 weeks later it returned. It was still failing on quality JHP (more of a FTRTB this time than a straight up FTF). I sent it back (even paid shipping) and requested a 21SF without the ambi release (did my research this time and picked a non problem child model). This was over 5 weeks ago. I don't have anything back yet. Lame

 

[Sapper771]

Its not a new issue.

I had the ambi mag release G21 and so did two of my friends. We shaved an edge off of the magazine release button and they worked great.

At least Glock fixed it for you. I know of a few companies that would have told you to foot the shipping and the repair, especially if it were a parts gun.

I cant say their ambi mag release design was a complete success, but it wasnt a complete failure either. I wouldnt be ticked off at Glock, as long as they had the salt to fix the problem. Glock isnt the only company that could be guilty of letting the consumer do the product testing.

Either way, your G20 is back up and running with no cash out of your pocket.

 

[jfrey]

Warp I understand your problem. I have had a G36 since 2000 that is picky about certain hollow point bullets. It will choke on Gold Dots but Hornady CD ammo works fine. I fixed my problem with just trying different ammo until I found one that would feed. The big holes on the bullets would hang on the bottom of the feed ramp but CD feeds fine.

 

[Warp]

Warp I understand your problem. I have had a G36 since 2000 that is picky about certain hollow point bullets. It will choke on Gold Dots but Hornady CD ammo works fine. I fixed my problem with just trying different ammo until I found one that would feed. The big holes on the bullets would hang on the bottom of the feed ramp but CD feeds fine.

My issue is that I have a really hard time trusting a gun that chokes on any quality ammunition of the same type I intend to carry.

However, after I called Glock the first time (it had been terrible on Winchester Ranger) they said the same basic thing and suggested I try something else. I bought some Federal HST1 (230+P) and it did better, but still failed on one out of the 100 rounds I fired.

How many of the hornady critical defense did you put through the 36?

 

[jfrey]

To be honest, I don't really know, probably 3 or 4 boxes. 95% of what I shoot through it is regular ball ammo. It didn't take but 3 rounds of the Gold Dots to realize they wouldn't work. I did shoot several boxes of Cor-Bon powerballs through it but that is a real handfull. They worked fine. I shoot a coned type bullet in my loads for the 1911's and it doesn't like that one either. Won't even chamber. I did shoot a box of regular old Winchester hollow points in it and didn't seem to have any problems. The problem is obviously the short feed ramp in relation to the height of the bullets in the magazine. I use Wilson mags in my 1911's and the bullets set a lot higher in relation to the bore.

Hornady XTP and CD ammo seems to be the most reliable in the G36 so I use it. The good thing is I can use it in all my 1911's as well so I buy one box and shoot it in everything.

 

[Apocalypse-Now]

glocks are my favorite polymers, but i have to admit their cust serv really stinks.

 

[Warp]

Their customer service seems good. Just a little slow.

 

[SCBradley]

Their customer service seems good. Just a little slow.

I had a 19 go back to them with heavy slide peening after 500 rounds. It was in Smyrna for 6 months. I was lied to around 25 times about where my gun was and when it would return. In the end I got a new gun, with no explanation.

I love Glocks, only own Glocks, and have too much time and money in the platform to switch, but I will never use their customer service again. If I have an issue I'll deal with it myself.

 

[Cards81fan]

No sir, I see your point. I still assert that if they warranted the issue given these circumstances, you should consider that a very good service resolution. They didn't have to do squat according to the terms of their warranty. I'd say they we far from dishonest, in this instance.

I never implied they were not factory parts. But how do you even buy a new, incomplete frame?

 

[SCBradley]

But how do you even buy a new, incomplete frame?

Glockmeister sells stripped and complete frames and slides.

 

[DenaliPark]

This is an old, old issue, the most common problem with the ambi mag release was the sticking of the mag release. I thought virtually everyone knew about them, obviously the OP wasn't up to speed....BTW Glock has the best CS in the business, my bet is that the OP contacted them and copped an attitude, like the one he displays here in his posting....

 

[Warp]

This is an old, old issue, the most common problem with the ambi mag release was the sticking of the mag release. I thought virtually everyone knew about them, obviously the OP wasn't up to speed....BTW Glock has the best CS in the business, my bet is that the OP contacted them and copped an attitude, like the one he displays here in his posting....

...why is that your bet?

 

[REAPER4206969]

Good thread, but it's like reading a novel.