Got pulled over while carrying...

[baz]

Why would he disarm you? You are lawfully carrying, and you presented no indicators of risk based on your post.

The large majority of LEOs I've dealt with are professionals, and pretty much reciprocate the same attitude you give them. Treat them with courtesy and respect, and you'll get the same in return.

This is my experience as well. I've been stopped a couple of times, and have been involved in a couple of accidents where I notified the responding LE that I was carrying. It is no big deal to them. Sometimes, they'll ask what I'm carrying, and we'll have a nice discussion about guns.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

I'm not a cop but I would be extremely uncomfortable returning to a vehicle to deliver a ticket to an armed person that I have never met and don't know anything about

I'm not a police officer either, but if someone has a permit to carry you do know something about them. You know they're not a criminal because they've passed all of the background checks. As an experienced officer, I would suspect that you would be aware that the people with permits aren't the ones you have to worry about.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Anyway, I was surprised that he chose not to disarm me.

During how many routine traffic stops when there is ONLY a traffic infraction involved, how many officers ask at the beginning of the encounter if there are any weapons in the vehicle? In 30 years I've been stopped at least a dozen times before I started really paying attention to speed limits. I've never been asked any question about the presence of weapons.

So, if the officers are not concerned enough about weapons to just ask one simple question at the beginning, then why would they suddenly become concerned when the driver shows them a permit and informs them about the presence of a lawfully possessed firearm? I think it would be rare that the officer would choose to put himself, the subject stopped, and bystanders in danger of a negligent discharge by needlessly handling a firearm that they likely never would have even asked about to begin with.

That being said, unless the law requires me to inform, if the officer is not concerned enough to ask about a gun, I am not going to be concerned enough to tell them about it either, which has worked quite well for 30 years and a dozen traffic stops for me.

Your permit demonstrates that you have no felonies, domestic violence or mental deficiencies.

Knowing that makes his life alot easier and safery already.

Do officers simply trust that the driver's license that you hand them is current, valid and not suspended or revoked? No. They verify the validity of the license with the issuing state. An officer would not be wise to accept a firearms permit as being valid and current until they verify it with the issuing agency that it is. The license means that the person the license was issued to was a "good guy" at the time of issuance. There is no guarantee that the situation hasn't changed since the permit was issued, until the issuing agency verifies it.

All true. He knew you were permitted when he ran your tag.

How can that be possible unless the officer is a psychic and knows who is driving the vehicle? When the officer runs the license plate number they might get an indication that the registered owner of the vehicle may possess a firearms license, but they have no idea who is actually driving or present in the vehicle.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I am an old fairly recently retired po po. Never bothered me in the least for good citizens to have guns..think they should have two in fact. Seems quite a few of the newer cop crop do not share those sentiments. Getting pulled over by scared rookies makes me real nervous. I would not make suggestions or volunteer information. If its required to hand the card over or tell them you are packing I would sure do that part. At night when getting stopped turn on the interior lights..roll the driver side window down and dont make any sudden movements. Also do not let your passengers get out and dont get out yourself unless so instructed. That makes all cops highly nervous. Best of fortunes.

You, sir, in my opinion, deserve a standing ovation:

 

[coyotehitman]

Your permit demonstrates that you have no felonies, domestic violence or mental deficiencies.

Knowing that makes his life alot easier and safery already.

Lack of an identifiable record means nothing. Allowing it to lull you into a false sense of security is potentially fatal and represents extremely poor tactics. Every felon was once a non-felon, don't forget it.

Why would he disarm you? You are lawfully carrying, and you presented no indicators of risk based on your post.

The large majority of LEOs I've dealt with are professionals, and pretty much reciprocate the same attitude you give them. Treat them with courtesy and respect, and you'll get the same in return.

You would be disarmed because in many states it is a legal option for an LEO. It has nothing to do with attitude or respect.

I'm no leo, but I'd like to think that I would at least be able to get a "feel" for the person I was pulling over, then make an assessment as to disarming them

I'll second that I am glad you are not an LEO. With your current mindset, I would possibly be attending your funeral. I do not decide whether someone is a "nice guy" for several years and sometimes I am still wrong.

If you are stopped and not an identifiable LEO with credentials or my personal friend, you are disarmed for the duration of our contact. When business is over, you are handed your cleared weapon. You are treated respectfully and professionally during this procedure, but I do not negotiate. This occurs each time, every time, regardless of race, sex or other demographics. It is a decision I make to stack the odds in my favor and ensure I go home in one piece. Please respect it even if you don't like it.

 

[Elessar]

Seems very natural and reasonable that if someone intends on shooting an officer, they aren't going to voluntarily announce to the officer that they are armed. Seems like many officers aren't threatened when this is disclosed.

Others, it seems, have an "us against them" mentality and assume all non cops should be treated as threats. I'm sure there is a power trip part to this in many officers as well. I've seen it myself many times. I'm not anti cop at all, but I hate to see this problem go un spoken.

 

[NavyLCDR]

If you are stopped and not an identifiable LEO with credentials or my personal friend, you are disarmed for the duration of our contact. When business is over, you are handed your cleared weapon. You are treated respectfully and professionally during this procedure, but I do not negotiate. This occurs each time, every time, regardless of race, sex or other demographics. It is a decision I make to stack the odds in my favor and ensure I go home in one piece. Please respect it even if you don't like it.

I carry a gun to protect myself in the very minute chance that I might meet a criminal with the intent to do me or my family harm amongst the thousands or millions of people I might pass by in my life. Chances are I will never have to use my gun, but there are very few people on this forum who would fault a person for carrying a gun should that one in a million chance occur that you need it.

Your post, coyotehitman, is exactly why I will take every precaution legally afforded to me by law to protect myself from any law enforcement that I have an encounter with, unless you are my personal friend. You will be treated respectfully and professionally if you detain me, however for my safety and the safety of those around me you will not receive any information from me that I am not required by law to disclose to you. Some people call that "cop bashing." I call it self-protection.

 

[Reefinmike]

coyote- That is the scary, power hungry police state-esque junk that makes some people HATE cops. Why in the world would you feel the need to disarm someone who is legally carrying a firearm and has informed you? If someone is going to do you harm, they arent going to give you a heads up on it!?!?!?

I wish police were required to train more than just once a year. Some of these knee jerk reactions by police kill innocent people. recently, the guy in New York who shot his boss. headlines read something like "2 dead, 8 injured" when in reality police killed the bad guy and managed to shoot 8 or 9 bystanders... how the heck can you do that at such a close range? I guess some just keep pulling til it goes click. And then the chris dorner event where trigger happy police magdumped into a car with two confused asian women.

I have great respect for most police officers, every one I have dealt with in person has been nice, professional and has not disarmed me. Note I said MOST officers... please dont ever pull over a blue chevy s10 in southern ohio, I dont want to be treated like a criminal.

 

[TenDriver]

I stopped to help a lady change a tire on one of the busier 6 lane roads through town. About the same time I stopped, another vehicle stopped with the same intent. They had a large cooler in the back of the truck and shared water with all of us as we all got down to business changing the flat. About the time we got the fourth lug nut off a local officer stops, blocks a lane of traffic for us and walks on over asking if there's anything he can do.

Turned out the lady's spare was flat. No problem, I have a portable compressor in the car. The officer offered to go get it, I told him where in my car it was not thinking about all the firearms sitting in their cases on the back seat. I saw him stare for a second, then grab the compressor and bring it back over. We filled up the tire, got the the lady on her way, and as folks were getting back in their cars the officer said he'd like to speak with me.

He asked what was in the cases and whether anything was loaded. They weren't, and were all sporting trigger locks. He then asked to see the Garand and Mosin and what I thought about them, etc as he was thinking about buying one. Good experience. Never asked to see any ID. It was fairly obvious through the contact he wasn't checking it over from a LEO standpoint. Rifles on the back seat next to an unoccupied baby seat in a vehicle driven by someone who had stopped to help someone change a tire apparently doesn't raise much suspicion in Alabama.

Had another officer behind me in a grocery store ask if I had a permit. I thought it was odd since I'm carrying "concealed". I said I did, he then said I might consider wearing a baggier shirt as I was printing. It happened not long after an officer was killed during a traffic stop not far from where we were and at least one, maybe two citizens assisted in stopping the killer. In the parking lot he approached me again to clarify his demeanor in the store (I didn't detect any rudeness from him at all, but he said he thought he was a little) and mentioned he believed an armed citizen helped to keep another officer from getting killed that night. The media never stated the assisting citizens being armed, but he believed they were and it made a difference.

I haven't had a negative encounter from a LEO, but I don't go seeking them out either.

 

[TenDriver]

If you are stopped and not an identifiable LEO with credentials or my personal friend, you are disarmed for the duration of our contact. When business is over, you are handed your cleared weapon. You are treated respectfully and professionally during this procedure, but I do not negotiate. This occurs each time, every time, regardless of race, sex or other demographics. It is a decision I make to stack the odds in my favor and ensure I go home in one piece. Please respect it even if you don't like it.

What happens if / when you have an ND while clearing a weapon you are unfamiliar with?

I want you to go home at the end of your shift in one piece and with no additional holes, but if you did this to me I'd be in your supervisor's office the next business day. Especially if I detected unsafe handling while you were doing it.

 

[joecil]

Well all I can say is I had a form of conceal carry permit since they first hit Florida in the early 80's. Now I live in Kentucky which is a must inform state and have been pulled over a couple of times with no problem at all nor asked to disarm either. Now here if the car is registered to you then they know already or if they run you driver's license they also know you have a CCDW. Now I did have one ask where I had it which I answered on my right side IWB at 4 o'clock. He asked what it was and we talked about guns for a couple of minutes then he told me one of my break lights was out. No ticket no problem an looked like a kid to me but then anyone under 50 looks like a kid to me.

 

[smalls]

If you are stopped and not an identifiable LEO with credentials or my personal friend, you are disarmed for the duration of our contact. When business is over, you are handed your cleared weapon. You are treated respectfully and professionally during this procedure, but I do not negotiate. This occurs each time, every time, regardless of race, sex or other demographics. It is a decision I make to stack the odds in my favor and ensure I go home in one piece. Please respect it even if you don't like it.

You probably won't find many here who respect an officer who believes he's above everyone else.

Just because you have a permit may not mean you're a good guy, but the same goes for having a badge.

 

[Eb1]

Arkansas is not a must inform state. Only when hunting with a bow do you have to reveal your weapon to a game officer. I believe that map is wrong.
Also, disarming me when I am legal and permitted to carry, and you instantly become a bad cop who has his priorities incorrect.

 

[coyotehitman]

Your post, coyotehitman, is exactly why I will take every precaution legally afforded to me by law to protect myself from any law enforcement that I have an encounter with, unless you are my personal friend. You will be treated respectfully and professionally if you detain me, however for my safety and the safety of those around me you will not receive any information from me that I am not required by law to disclose to you. Some people call that "cop bashing." I call it self-protection.

But it is wrong for me to do the same with those I contact.

every one I have dealt with in person has been nice, professional and has not disarmed me. Note I said MOST officers... please dont ever pull over a blue chevy s10 in southern ohio, I dont want to be treated like a criminal.

Oh, they were nice and professional because they didn't disarm you. I see. And following the protections afforded to me by state law is "treating you like a criminal" simply because you don't like it.

In this one paragraph you have shown us why so many LEO'S are despised and mistrusted all over America. The paranoia shown is remarkable on its face,but sadly,true in your case.. Thankfully the vast majority of normal decent officers are like big wheel.

The insufferable ego you display is truly overwhelming.Not your cop buddy or friend, disarmed! You are an absolute disgrace to any professional LE Agency. I don't respect it and I don't like it.

Again,you're a disgrace to any Agency.
I worked with cops for 20+ years. Thankfully ,I never had to interact with one as intolerant as you.

BUT you were never a police officer? What were you?

What happens if / when you have an ND while clearing a weapon you are unfamiliar with?

I want you to go home at the end of your shift in one piece and with no additional holes, but if you did this to me I'd be in your supervisor's office the next business day. Especially if I detected unsafe handling while you were doing it.

So, let me get this straight. My state permits you to carry a concealed weapon provided you abide by certain laws and restrictions. It also affords me the authority to take certain actions that enhance my level of personal safety. Just so we all understand: you have a duty to inform and an obligation to surrender your firearm for the duration of the contact upon demand in my state. I have the authority, by law and departmental policy, to disarm you. You exercise your ability to CCW and are automatically "good guys" because you have a CCW permit, but I am a paranoid, disrespectful, egotistical, disgraceful, intolerant, careless in the handling of firearms, and will be complained on for following state law and dept. policy. Interesting logic.

 

[NavyLCDR]

But it is wrong for me to do the same with those I contact.

I never said you were wrong. What I said was that by needlessly handling my firearm, which was safe and secure in it's holster, you are putting yourself, me, and other bystanders at a greater risk from a negligent discharge then if my gun is left untouched in it's holster. Therefore, I will not voluntarily extend to you an invitation to needlessly handle my firearm by telling you about it unless I am required to by law. I am, in reality, doing nothing to make anyone safer by telling you about my lawfully possessed and carried gun.

Just curious, do you also run the serial number of these firearms you seize "for officer safety" to check if they are stolen?

 

[NavyLCDR]

Arkansas is not a must inform state. Only when hunting with a bow do you have to reveal your weapon to a game officer. I believe that map is wrong.
Also, disarming me when I am legal and permitted to carry, and you instantly become a bad cop who has his priorities incorrect.

You might want to read the Arkansas Administrative Rules regarding Concealed Handun Licenses:

http://static.ark.org/eeuploads/asp/CHCL_rules_effective_date_010109.pdf

Chapter 3, rule 3.2:

Rule 3.2 Contact with law enforcement
(a) While in possession of a concealed handgun, the licensee shall present the original license for inspection, along with an official form of photo identification, upon request for identification by any law enforcement officer.
(b) In any official contact with law enforcement, if the licensee IS in possession of a handgun, when the officer asks the licensee for identification (driver’s license, or personal information, such as name and date of birth), the licensee shall notify the officer that he or she holds a concealed handgun carry license and that he or she has a handgun in his or her possession.(c) In any official contact with law enforcement, if the licensee IS NOT in possession of a handgun, when the officer asks the licensee for identification (driver’s license, or personal information, such as name and date of birth), the licensee shall not be required to notify the officer that he or she holds a concealed handgun carry license and does not have a handgun in his or her possession.
(d) An official form of photo identification shall be, but is not limited to, any of the following:
(1) Current and valid Arkansas driver's license;
(2) Current and valid military identification card; or
(3) Current and valid United States passport.
(e) Reproduced copies of the official form of photo identification or copies of the original concealed handgun carry license shall not be accepted.

Rule 7.0 Failure to comply with concealed handgun carry license restrictions
Failure to comply with these Rules is a ground(s) for suspension and/or revocation of the Arkansas concealed handgun carry license.

 

[TenDriver]

So, let me get this straight. My state permits you to carry a concealed weapon provided you abide by certain laws and restrictions. It also affords me the authority to take certain actions that enhance my level of personal safety. Just so we all understand: you have a duty to inform and an obligation to surrender your firearm for the duration of the contact upon demand in my state. I have the authority, by law and departmental policy, to disarm you. You exercise your ability to CCW and are automatically "good guys" because you have a CCW permit, but I am a paranoid, disrespectful, egotistical, disgraceful, intolerant, careless in the handling of firearms, and will be complained on for following state law and dept. policy. Interesting logic.

"Permits you to carry a concealed weapon provided you abide by certain laws and restrictions." So I should be grateful?

"Just so we all understand: you have a duty to inform and an obligation to surrender your firearm for the duration of the contact upon demand in my state. I have the authority, by law and departmental policy, to disarm you." If you feel you must. Your supervisor will be hearing from me should I feel you put me in danger, however. I will be of no threat to you, other than the fact that I'm armed. Your only reason to disarm me would be to show me you're the boss. That's called being egotistical.

"You exercise your ability to CCW and are automatically "good guys" because you have a CCW permit, but I am a paranoid, disrespectful, egotistical, disgraceful, intolerant, careless in the handling of firearms, and will be complained on for following state law and dept. policy. Interesting logic." I think the key words here are disrespectful and egotistical. Your response is reeking of disapproval of citizens carrying a firearm, thus egotistical and disrespectful.

I have also not accused you of improper handling of firearms. You have left the door wide open for it to happen, however.

How do you disarm said individual? Do you ask him to hand it over? Do you trust him to hand it over? Seems to me the safest way for you to do that would be to remove the armed citizen from the car and take it yourself.

Your attitude makes me happy I live in a state with no duty to inform. Quite frankly I don't give a dog's tail what your state law and dept policy is. You're on a power trip....

 

[Eb1]

That stinks. We use to be a "don't tell" state. Jeez.... I can't say what I want to here on THR.
Yep, that's Gov. Beebe for you.

I can tell you that before the current Pres. we were a "don't tell" state.


It seems to me that you shouldn't play with loaded guns should ring a bell, and leave a loaded gun safe in the holster. If you go pulling it out, it seems to me that it is now not as safe and loaded. It doesn't make sense the laws on the books today.
So because I don't have a star on my chest, I am a threat and criminal on the street with a gun. Seems to me that we are guilty before proven guilty in the eyes of some "Law Enforcement" Officers. They don't call them "Peace" Officers or Officers of the peace anymore.

 

[Sam1911]

If you are stopped and not an identifiable LEO with credentials or my personal friend, you are disarmed for the duration of our contact. When business is over, you are handed your cleared weapon. You are treated respectfully and professionally during this procedure, but I do not negotiate. This occurs each time, every time, regardless of race, sex or other demographics. It is a decision I make to stack the odds in my favor and ensure I go home in one piece. Please respect it even if you don't like it.

How utterly repulsive.

When the police wonder why they feel so very lonely out on the "mean streets" ... well, there you go.

 

[Torian]

Lack of an identifiable record means nothing. Allowing it to lull you into a false sense of security is potentially fatal and represents extremely poor tactics. Every felon was once a non-felon, don't forget it.



You would be disarmed because in many states it is a legal option for an LEO. It has nothing to do with attitude or respect.



I'll second that I am glad you are not an LEO. With your current mindset, I would possibly be attending your funeral. I do not decide whether someone is a "nice guy" for several years and sometimes I am still wrong.

If you are stopped and not an identifiable LEO with credentials or my personal friend, you are disarmed for the duration of our contact. When business is over, you are handed your cleared weapon. You are treated respectfully and professionally during this procedure, but I do not negotiate. This occurs each time, every time, regardless of race, sex or other demographics. It is a decision I make to stack the odds in my favor and ensure I go home in one piece. Please respect it even if you don't like it.

I fail to see why this would make you feel safer. If the individual you pulled over intended to use their firearm to target police, they would certainly do it before you disarmed them. They would likely engage you as soon as you started walking up to their window.

Unless you are conducting a felony stop, in which case you would already likely have your weapon drawn and require them to exit the vehicle with hands up, I don't see what this would accomplish, aside from discriminating against perfectly lawful CCW.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

If you are stopped and not an identifiable LEO with credentials or my personal friend, you are disarmed for the duration of our contact. When business is over, you are handed your cleared weapon. You are treated respectfully and professionally during this procedure, but I do not negotiate. This occurs each time, every time, regardless of race, sex or other demographics. It is a decision I make to stack the odds in my favor and ensure I go home in one piece. Please respect it even if you don't like it.

Sorry. I don't respect it or you one tiny bit.
You want to disarm someone because it makes you feel safer. Kind of like the Brady jackasses. That's right. I lumped you in with the Bradys.
There's no doubt that the vast majority of police officers are stand up guys and I respect them immensely. However you sir, are proof that the negative stereotypes are sometimes accurate.
If someone wanted to harm you, do you really think they would tell you they were carrying?

 

[Frank Ettin]

Starting to drift pretty close to the line. Everyone let's tone it down a couple of notches please.

 

[Eb1]

identifiable LEO with credentials or my personal friend, you are disarmed

This is all I have to do to make the point I wanted to make. I don't need to point fingers. Just read what you posted.

 

[JRH6856]

I would like to know where coyotehitman works. It is one more gun owner unfriendly jurisdictions I would like to have on my list of dangerous places to avoid.

 

[TenDriver]

I'm guessing Ohio.