OldWolf
Member
Would you buy one of these if they were available?
GP-100 357 Maximum
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unspellable
Member
357
Chamber it for the 357 SuperMag.
Ruger's original mistake was the 357 Maximum concept instead of going with the 357 SuperMag. When manufacturer's take a wild cat commercial they always seem to insist on fixing something that ain't broke. The 357 Maximum fiasco was caused by trying to modify the 357 SuperMag and make it do something it was never meant to do.
A 357 SuperMag will chamber the 357 Maximum in the manner that a 357 Magnum will chamber a 38 Special.
Chamber it for the 357 SuperMag.
Ruger's original mistake was the 357 Maximum concept instead of going with the 357 SuperMag. When manufacturer's take a wild cat commercial they always seem to insist on fixing something that ain't broke. The 357 Maximum fiasco was caused by trying to modify the 357 SuperMag and make it do something it was never meant to do.
A 357 SuperMag will chamber the 357 Maximum in the manner that a 357 Magnum will chamber a 38 Special.
Fatelvis
Member
The 357 Supermag was designed to use heavy-for-caliber 357 bullets at a high speed (180-200 grn bullets @1350-1400 fps) instead of loading lightweight bullets to blistering speeds. That is where flame cutting and jacket seperation occured. It is really a good hunting and silhouette round.
unspellable
Member
357 Maximum vs 357 SuperMag
They are two distinct cartridges. Don't feel bad, they are more often confused than distinguished from each other.
Principal difference in the dimensions is in the length. The nominal case length for the 357 maximum is 1.605 inch while for the SuperMag it is 1.610 inch, so far a trivial difference. The OAL for the 357 Maximum is 1.990 inch while the SuperMag is 2.115 inch, a non-trivial difference.
Elgin Gates developed the SuperMag as a wildcat for silhouette shooting. The intention was to launch a heavier than normal 357 bullet at not too much faster than normal 357 Magnum velocities. It does this very well and every body was fat dumb and happy.
Now Ruger and remington decide to get in on the act. Ruger did not want to make the revolver window long enough to accomnodate the SuperMag, so in spite of Gate's telling them not to do it, Ruger and Remington cooked up the 357 Maximum. The case is almost as long as the cylinder so there is not much room for a heavy bullet with out seating deep and using up powder room. Somebody (Probably in the marketing/advertising dept.) got the bright idea to go for hyper velocities so the first factory load had a light bullet driven to hyper velocities using a massive charge of slow ball powder. This is a recipe for erosion problems. The rest is history. It's bad load for silhoutte too.
The silhoutte shooters loaded heavy bullets with extruded powders and never had any problems. Actually, either cartridge can achieve pretty high velocities with out excess erosion with a light bullet provided you don't go to the ultimate extreme and provided you use the right powder. Of course, the erosion problem was non-existant in single shots.
Now to add to the confusion. The Dan Wesson 357 SuperMag (The actual model designation.) is chambered for the 357 SuperMag but is marked on the side 357 Maximum. Go figure. I have a friend with a Ruger 357 Maximum. My SuperMag loads will not chamber in the Ruger. I've not seen a bit of erosion on my DW.
They are two distinct cartridges. Don't feel bad, they are more often confused than distinguished from each other.
Principal difference in the dimensions is in the length. The nominal case length for the 357 maximum is 1.605 inch while for the SuperMag it is 1.610 inch, so far a trivial difference. The OAL for the 357 Maximum is 1.990 inch while the SuperMag is 2.115 inch, a non-trivial difference.
Elgin Gates developed the SuperMag as a wildcat for silhouette shooting. The intention was to launch a heavier than normal 357 bullet at not too much faster than normal 357 Magnum velocities. It does this very well and every body was fat dumb and happy.
Now Ruger and remington decide to get in on the act. Ruger did not want to make the revolver window long enough to accomnodate the SuperMag, so in spite of Gate's telling them not to do it, Ruger and Remington cooked up the 357 Maximum. The case is almost as long as the cylinder so there is not much room for a heavy bullet with out seating deep and using up powder room. Somebody (Probably in the marketing/advertising dept.) got the bright idea to go for hyper velocities so the first factory load had a light bullet driven to hyper velocities using a massive charge of slow ball powder. This is a recipe for erosion problems. The rest is history. It's bad load for silhoutte too.
The silhoutte shooters loaded heavy bullets with extruded powders and never had any problems. Actually, either cartridge can achieve pretty high velocities with out excess erosion with a light bullet provided you don't go to the ultimate extreme and provided you use the right powder. Of course, the erosion problem was non-existant in single shots.
Now to add to the confusion. The Dan Wesson 357 SuperMag (The actual model designation.) is chambered for the 357 SuperMag but is marked on the side 357 Maximum. Go figure. I have a friend with a Ruger 357 Maximum. My SuperMag loads will not chamber in the Ruger. I've not seen a bit of erosion on my DW.
steveno
Member
Ruger was burned the first time. I doubt that will happen again
Fatelvis
Member
So, Unspellable, let me get this straight....... Im thinking of buying an older DW 357 Supermag, can I use 357 Maximum brass for my loads, or is there seperate brass for the 357 Supermag? Thanks-
OK, I just went through your response again: I can use Maximum brass, as it is just a hair shorter than the SM brass. The difference is that I can use the heavy bullets it was intended for, because of DW`s longer cylinder, right?
OK, I just went through your response again: I can use Maximum brass, as it is just a hair shorter than the SM brass. The difference is that I can use the heavy bullets it was intended for, because of DW`s longer cylinder, right?
Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
Not if Ruger makes it!
Hobie
Member
No.
I own a .357 Max rifle. Great cartridge but not for MY uses in a revolver.
I own a .357 Max rifle. Great cartridge but not for MY uses in a revolver.
unspellable
Member
Brass & cylinder length
For my SuperMag I buy Winchester 357 maximum brass. When I meaure it, I find it to actually be a bit overlength for the Mximum. It lands right on 1.610 inch so it works fine.
The dan Wesson SuperMag cylinder is longer than the Ruger Maximum cylinder and does allow heavier bullets at their intended seating depth. There were one or two other less common single actions chambered for the 357 maximum, I don't know what their cylinder lengths were.
True 357 SuperMag loads will be a bit different than 357 Maximum loads.
You can use 357 maximum loads in the Dan Wesson.
For my SuperMag I buy Winchester 357 maximum brass. When I meaure it, I find it to actually be a bit overlength for the Mximum. It lands right on 1.610 inch so it works fine.
The dan Wesson SuperMag cylinder is longer than the Ruger Maximum cylinder and does allow heavier bullets at their intended seating depth. There were one or two other less common single actions chambered for the 357 maximum, I don't know what their cylinder lengths were.
True 357 SuperMag loads will be a bit different than 357 Maximum loads.
You can use 357 maximum loads in the Dan Wesson.
Swamp Yankee
Member
Supermag, SuperMax, Maximum ???
I dunno.
Fatelvis
All I can tell you is I own and cherish a Monson, Mass DW Supermag and it is indeed chambered for and stamped 357 Maximum.
The Supermag Series just denoted the size of the frame, the Supermag being the largest of the frame sizes. The other two were small, chambered in 357 Mag and .22 or the large chambered in 41 and 44 Mag.
I handload all my ammo and use Remington 357 Maximum cases. Starline may still make the brass but I'm pretty sure only Remington is still offering it.
No one to my knowledge is manufacturing loaded ammo. You can still find some sitting on a shelf from time to time but that's about it. I really like Hornady's 180 gr XTP JHP with Hodgdon H110. Use a small rifle primer as indicated in the loading manuals.
If you want to fool around with some light bullets, go ahead, either keep the velocity down, or watch the forcing cone and keep a couple of spare barrels. In any case unless you shoot it a lot I don't think you'll have problems.
Take Care
I dunno.
Fatelvis
All I can tell you is I own and cherish a Monson, Mass DW Supermag and it is indeed chambered for and stamped 357 Maximum.
The Supermag Series just denoted the size of the frame, the Supermag being the largest of the frame sizes. The other two were small, chambered in 357 Mag and .22 or the large chambered in 41 and 44 Mag.
I handload all my ammo and use Remington 357 Maximum cases. Starline may still make the brass but I'm pretty sure only Remington is still offering it.
No one to my knowledge is manufacturing loaded ammo. You can still find some sitting on a shelf from time to time but that's about it. I really like Hornady's 180 gr XTP JHP with Hodgdon H110. Use a small rifle primer as indicated in the loading manuals.
If you want to fool around with some light bullets, go ahead, either keep the velocity down, or watch the forcing cone and keep a couple of spare barrels. In any case unless you shoot it a lot I don't think you'll have problems.
Take Care
Fatelvis
Member
Thanks Guys. Swamp, I ended up buying it. Im just waiting for it to be delivered to my dealer, as we speak. I just ordered 200 Rem Maximum cases and 200 Horn. 180 XTP`s with the two cannalures (sp?). As long as you keep the bullet weight up, doesnt that eliminate forcing cone problems, and flame cutting? Thanks!
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unspellable
Member
357 SuperMag
The Dan Wesson 357 SuperMag is chambered for the 357 SuperMag, not withstanding it's being marked 357 Maximum on the side. It will digest 357 Maximum loads, just as a 357 Mag will take 38 Specials, although since both cases are more or less the same length, you don't have the minor worry of building up a fouling ring that you have with 38's in a 357.
Throat erosion is not a problem with a Dan Wesson in any case, it's a five minute job to swap barrels. Dan Wesson furnished two barrel tubes with the 357 SuperMags due to the scare, but I've never heard of anybody ever having to use the second barrel. Mine' still in the box.
I use nothing lighter than 150 grains for a bullet and stay away from very slow ball powders with bullets under 180 grains. I have no erosion on either forcing cone or top strap.
BTW: I bought this revolver used and it came to me with a four inch barrel. can anybody explain why anyone would want a four inch barrel on this revolver? I've since equipped it with an eight inch barrel and a scope.
The Dan Wesson 357 SuperMag is chambered for the 357 SuperMag, not withstanding it's being marked 357 Maximum on the side. It will digest 357 Maximum loads, just as a 357 Mag will take 38 Specials, although since both cases are more or less the same length, you don't have the minor worry of building up a fouling ring that you have with 38's in a 357.
Throat erosion is not a problem with a Dan Wesson in any case, it's a five minute job to swap barrels. Dan Wesson furnished two barrel tubes with the 357 SuperMags due to the scare, but I've never heard of anybody ever having to use the second barrel. Mine' still in the box.
I use nothing lighter than 150 grains for a bullet and stay away from very slow ball powders with bullets under 180 grains. I have no erosion on either forcing cone or top strap.
BTW: I bought this revolver used and it came to me with a four inch barrel. can anybody explain why anyone would want a four inch barrel on this revolver? I've since equipped it with an eight inch barrel and a scope.
Swamp Yankee
Member
Nope, no problems at all.
Flame cutting on the DW was never an issue. Enjoy that new shooter and let us know how it goes.
Take Care
Flame cutting on the DW was never an issue. Enjoy that new shooter and let us know how it goes.
Take Care
Fatelvis
Member
Thanks for easing my worried mind, Unspell and Swamp! One more question....... Does the 357 Supermag use regular DW 357 magnum barrels/shrouds? Mine only comes with an 8" bbl., but I might want to try a 6" on it too. Everywhere I checked has plenty of 357 magnum bbls., but no Supermag bbls. Also, I hate the ramp sight, no matter what color the insert is and am actively looking for a Patridge style front sight. El Hombre gave me a little help on a recent thread:
Parts orders only: (Genny)...... [email protected]
Phone: (607) 336-1174 ext 21
Do you have any other sources? Thanks again-
and am actively looking for a Patridge style front sight. El Hombre gave me a little help on a recent thread:Parts orders only: (Genny)...... [email protected]
Phone: (607) 336-1174 ext 21
Do you have any other sources? Thanks again-
unspellable
Member
DW barrels & shrouds
The 44 Magnum and 445 SuperMag barrel tubes are interchangable. The 357 SuperMag barrel tube has the same outside diameter as the 44 tubes. I have never had occasion to handle a 357 Magnum DW, but I would guess the barrel tube has a smaller ouside diameter and is not interchanagle with the 357 SuperMag.
All the SuperMags take the same barrel shroud. It is the same as the 44 Magnum barrel shroud except the cutout for the ejector is longer. A SuperMag shorud will work on the 44 Magnum, but a 44 Magnum shroud would have to have the ejector cutout extended to work on a SuperMag. The 357 Magnum shround is the same as the 22 LR shroud and will not work on the 44 Magnum or the SuperMags. The 22 LR and 357 Magnum have a smaller frame.
As for cosmetics, DW puts the chambering on the shroud. I don't know why since the same shroud will work on more than one revolver and with more than one chambering.
You can get barrel tubes and shrouds direct from DW. Given the craziness I've seen on eBay of late they might even be cheaper. I've seen 357 SuperMag barrels on eBay. There are other auction sites that specialize in firearms. You just have to have patience if you want to snag one on the cheap. Two days after you buy one, you will find three more.
The 44 Magnum and 445 SuperMag barrel tubes are interchangable. The 357 SuperMag barrel tube has the same outside diameter as the 44 tubes. I have never had occasion to handle a 357 Magnum DW, but I would guess the barrel tube has a smaller ouside diameter and is not interchanagle with the 357 SuperMag.
All the SuperMags take the same barrel shroud. It is the same as the 44 Magnum barrel shroud except the cutout for the ejector is longer. A SuperMag shorud will work on the 44 Magnum, but a 44 Magnum shroud would have to have the ejector cutout extended to work on a SuperMag. The 357 Magnum shround is the same as the 22 LR shroud and will not work on the 44 Magnum or the SuperMags. The 22 LR and 357 Magnum have a smaller frame.
As for cosmetics, DW puts the chambering on the shroud. I don't know why since the same shroud will work on more than one revolver and with more than one chambering.
You can get barrel tubes and shrouds direct from DW. Given the craziness I've seen on eBay of late they might even be cheaper. I've seen 357 SuperMag barrels on eBay. There are other auction sites that specialize in firearms. You just have to have patience if you want to snag one on the cheap. Two days after you buy one, you will find three more.
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