Group Seeks to Eliminate Sodas in Schools

[nico]

Oleg, I agree that home schooling can be a great tool to parents who are unhappy with their school system. But, I don't think it's a cure-all as I have two cousins who are a perfect example of how the system can be abused. The older of the two is one year younger than me and "graduated" when she was 16. When she graduated, she wasn't even proficient in algebra and pretty much met the bare minimum to get a diploma, which is nowhere near what is needed to get into a real university. Her sister is currently on the same track to nowhere. Again, I'm not trying to say that home schooling is a bad thing, but it's hardly a solution to all of our public schools' problems.

 

[jimpeel]

Here is the latest beverage flap.

NicoWater http://www.bevsource.com/

http://money.cnn.com/2002/05/24/news/nicowater/

Stop smoking, drink water

Nicotine-laced bottled water headed for stores, but some groups protest.
May 24, 2002: 10:21 AM EDT

NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Nicotine-laced bottled water, the latest in a recent string of controversial products for people trying to quit smoking, will hit store shelves this summer if the product's manufacturer has its way.

California-based Quick Test Five hopes to have its Nico Water on the market by July, its chief executive says. But the product is being introduced on the heels of a controversy about the dangers of nicotine lollipops and lip balm. The Food and Drug Administration issued a warning last month to pharmacies saying those products pose a danger to children.

Nico Water is apparently trying to find a niche for its product based on a new school of thought among some researchers. The theory is that some smokers just can't quit, but an alternative nicotine source may reduce smoking rates for others.

The water, to be sold for $2 per half-liter bottle, is said to taste like regular water and is being marketed to help people quit smoking and provide an alternative for smokers who are restricted from lighting up in restaurants or airplanes.

Critics claim that the water poses danger to kids because it looks and tastes like regular water and could be addictive.

"It should be regulated. It has a highly addictive drug in it," Danny Goldrick of the Campaign for Tobacco Free Kids told CNN. "And it's intended to help smokers treat nicotine addiction."

The group, along with the American Cancer Society and some other health groups, petitioned the FDA in December to review the product's safety, USA Today reported Friday. The FDA is still reviewing the petition.

But according to Quick Test Five CEO Steve Reder the company goes to great lengths to make sure the product is used safely -- and by those over the age of 18.

"We are a firm believer of the 'we card' system," Reder said. "We expect everybody to be carded at 18. Our bottles are packaged as 18 years and older product. Our bottles are tamper-proof. They are sold in two-pack and four-pack configurations. We are very very cautious about this bottle and who is going to drink this."

While the FDA regulates nicotine patches and gum because of their health claims, it does not have control over cigarettes or other tobacco products, USA Today said in its report.

Each bottle of Nico Water contains 4 milligrams of nicotine, equal to about two cigarettes or a stick of nicotine gum. While nicotine is addictive, it does not cause cancer. Other ingredients in cigarettes are carcinogenic.

So there it is. Notice the recurring theme of how its for the protection of the children?

Notice how this water blows a great big hole in their health and cancer claims?

They demand that restaurants and aircraft be smoke free and now they will demand that they be nicotine free as well. They have left smokers no choice but to get their nicotine fix through other sources because they have made a pariah out of them.

I am never at a loss for amusement at these people's antics. They decry smoking as addictive, and that those who smoke are addicts; but never see that they are addicted to controlling other people's lives.

I once had a guy on a radio program who stated that it was unfair that smokers got more work breaks than other workers. I called in and told him that they have more breaks because people like him had demanded they go outside to smoke. If they were allowed to remain at their station and smoke while working, they would not take those breaks. I told him that it was for one simple reason because he told them to so he should stop whining about them complying with his demands.

He was NOT pleased but had no comeback besides "They should stop smoking".

 

[jimpeel]

More on NicoWater

http://www.mcall.com/news/nationwor...32994.story?coll=sns-ap-nationworld-headlines

Rite Aid Pulls NicoWater in Maine Stores

By CLARKE CANFIELD
Associated Press Writer
Jan 9, 2004

PORTLAND, Maine -- Bottles of nicotine-laced water were pulled from the shelves of Rite Aid drug stores in Maine as legislators considered whether to ban the product.

A Rite Aid spokeswoman said the company removed bottles of NicoWater for sale in its 80 Maine stores Wednesday night, shortly after a legislative health committee voted 6-5 for a measure to outlaw the product until it's approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration.

The bill would need full Senate and House approval to become law.

Jody Cook, a spokeswoman for Rite Aid, said the company decided to stop selling the product in Maine because it wanted to be a good corporate citizen. BWAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Rite Aid, based in Camp Hill, Pa., has 3,400 stores nationwide.

"We're currently evaluating whether we will pull it from shelves across the chain," Cook said.

State Sen. John Martin took aim at NicoWater last spring when he saw ads touting the product as a cigarette substitute for people who have nicotine cravings in non-smoking environments.

The product is sold in four-packs of half-liter bottles, each of which has 4 mg of nicotine, an amount equal to that in two cigarettes. Martin said NicoWater poses a threat, especially to children, and carries no health benefits. Then how is it going to be regulated by the FDA if it has, by the bill's author, no health benefits?

Executives QT 5 Inc., the California-based company that makes NicoWater, were traveling on Thursday and were unavailable for comment. The company president has said that new laws that ban smoking in bars and other establishments underscore the need for nicotine substitutes.

The FDA blocked the sale of NicoWater in 2002, saying what producers called a dietary supplement was actually a drug. The water went on the market after QT 5 reclassified NicoWater as a "homeopathic nicotinum formula." This means that this product still falls outside of the FDA's purvue.

Copyright © 2004, The Associated Press

Paula Zahn interview with manufacturer and dissenter

FDA rules NicoWater as being unapproved drug

 

[c_yeager]

This may be specific to my region but, one thing that i am noticing around here is a growing gap between highschool education and universities. It seems that the graduation standards of our local highschools are not meeting the entrance standards of local universities. The current "fix" for this is an elaborate system of community colleges to take up the slack, sorta playing the role of pre-post-secondary schools. Personalyl i think its sad that a kid can graduate highschool with decent grades then end up taking three quarters of sub-college level math (no credit) just to catch up. This problem is most pronounced in math classes. Average math placement around here is something like "math 80" that means about 3 quarters before you even start getting math credit. But, it is also starting to appear more and more in the English subjects as well. Im seeing more and more kids ending up in sub 100 level English as well. When i started college (5 years ago) there wasnt even an English placement test for native speakers, it was simply assumed that a highschool grad was good to go into English 101. THe end result is that 4 year degrees are starting to take more like 6 years. And we arent talking about slacker students either. These are kids that did just fine in public highschool.

In otherwords, obesity, though it may be a big problem is FAR from the thing that public schools should be most concerned about. How about actually EDUCATING the kids for a change?

 

[nico]

Nicotine gum is OTC right? If so, this water should be too IMO. Some dumb kid who says "OMG it has nicotine so it must be almost as cool as cigarettes" is going to be just as likely to buy the gum as he/she is to buy the water.

 

[jimpeel]

I liked the part in the Paula Zahn interview where the manufacturer stated that the gum has a recommended dosage that could be as high as 88 mg/day whereas his company recommends 2 bottles/day or 8mg.

When Zahn asked "what happens if you drink more than two bottles?", he answered "How much water can you really drink? That's really what it amounts to."

 

[nico]

lol I'm not sure which is more ridiculous; the suggestion that you can't chew more than the recommended daily dose of nicotine gum or that you can't drink more than a liter of water a day

 

[Norton]

OK.....I know this is thread creep, but here's an example of the English skills of modern public school students in the great state of MD.......from another forum I lurk on.....

im totally against racist ppl, n i dotn even accosiate with them...its stupid to treat ppl differently because of what color they r....like Fredro Starr feat. Jill Scott_say in "Shinning Through" from the Save The Last Dace soundtrack, "We all the same color when you turn out the lights". hes absolutly right...black, whites, mexican, asian, doesnt matter, we're all the same n u shouldnt judge sum1 by the way they look or the color of their skin.....i remember one day at lunch, some of the JV football team, which was mostly black, were sittin at th elunch table.....there was one white boy who was also on the football team who was sittin with them....Mrs.Williams saw the one white boy sittin with the other black kids, went over to the white boy n i quote, "Please get up and go sit with your own color". im not makin this up, this is truly what she said no matter how much she denys it, those exact words came out her mouth

 

[c_yeager]

lol I'm not sure which is more ridiculous; the suggestion that you can't chew more than the recommended daily dose of nicotine gum or that you can't drink more than a liter of water a day

In order to even get to the recomended dosage of nicotene in the gum one would have to drink 20 bottles of the stuff. Now assuming they are 1/2 litre apiece thats 10 litres of water a day. Show me someone who can do THAT consistantly and ill show you someone with bigger problems than smoking.

 

[jimpeel]

lol I'm not sure which is more ridiculous; the suggestion that you can't chew more than the recommended daily dose of nicotine gum or that you can't drink more than a liter of water a day

Drinking that much water is far more likely to cause hydrointoxication than any high one might experience from the nicotine.

A college student recently died as a result of hydrointoxication (hyponatremia) after drinking a s---load of water in a hazing incident. http://www.thechamplainchannel.com/news/2169847/detail.html?f

Here is a site that explains hyponatremia http://sportsmedicine.about.com/cs/hydration/a/aa051200.htm

An article about personal experience of a woman who was drinking 12 L/day http://www.abc.net.au/dimensions/dimensions_health/Transcripts/s871112.htm

Death due to hyponatremia coupled with Extacy use http://www.mdma.net/waterintox/index.html

Parents charged in death of four-year-old due to hyponatremia http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/West/09/17/therapy.death.ap/

Infants are particularly susceptible. http://www.nbc6.net/news/2031011/detail.html

Are you still LOL?

 

[nico]

Jim, those stories are definitely sad, but drinking one liter of water in a day (or even two liters) isn't going to cause hyponatremia in an adult. There are plenty of people out there who drink a gallon of water a day without any negative side effects.

 

[jimpeel]

nico(water?)

Screwed up this post, please see the unscrewed post below.

 

[c_yeager]

Um, actually we are in complete agreement Jim.

Heres my post:

In order to even get to the recomended dosage of nicotene in the gum one would have to drink 20 bottles of the stuff. Now assuming they are 1/2 litre apiece thats 10 litres of water a day. Show me someone who can do THAT consistantly and ill show you someone with bigger problems than smoking.

In other words we both agree that in order to overdose on the nicotene in the water one would have to drink so much of it as to risk major complications from the water alone. In other words im agreeing with the manufacturer. You really cant drink enough of the stuff to OD on the nicotene.

 

[jimpeel]

c_yeager

OOPS!! I grabbed the wrong handle when I posted. I meant to post nico as the author of the post, not you, c_yeager.

I will repost the corrected text below.

:banghead:

 

[jimpeel]

nico(water?)

Reposted with my brain engaged. Apologies to all.

You apparently missed my point. I was responding to your contention wherein you posted:

or that you can't drink more than a liter of water a day

You were stating, by your post, that even though the manufacturer recommends two bottles -- or one liter total containing eight milligrams of nicotine -- that would not stop someone from drinking as many as they wanted.

The fallacy of that contention, however, is that for a person to get as much nicotine from the water as they would the maximum recommended dosage of gum -- twenty-two sticks/day for an 88 milligram total dosage -- they would have to drink twenty-two bottles or eleven liters/day.

If you will recall, in the one story at http://www.abc.net.au/dimensions/dimensions_health/Transcripts/s871112.htm the woman was drinking twelve liters/day of plain water and was getting sick.

In addition, if you factor in the overall daily cost of eleven liters/day it would be quite prohibitive.

 

[nico]

Jim, you're right, I missed your point. From your previous post, it sounded like the manufacturer of the water was trying to imply that one couldn't drink more than a liter of water a day. I see what you were saying, and I agree. Like I said before: IMO, if nicotine gum and nicotine patches are allowed to be sold OTC, this water should be too.

 

[jimpeel]

nico

Agreed. I also see no reason that this product should not be sold over the counter.

The antis say that it contains a powerful, addictive drug but they could say the same thing about over-the-counter sales of coffee and alcohol.

This is an article, which has been slightly edited, that first appeared in The Nation magazine called Generation wired: caffeine is the new drug of choice for kids.

There is also a June 10, 2003 television report called Kids & Caffeine: Are Your Kids Too Wired?

The original unedited article from The Nation Generation wired: caffeine is the new drug of choice for kids. can be read HERE

It is a subscription site but allows a seven day free trial so all you have to do is sign up and download the article.

So the new purveyor of drugs to teenagers is Starbucks, Dunkin' Donuts, and Coca-Cola.