Group Seeks to Eliminate Sodas in Schools
- Thread starter MicroBalrog
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sm
member
My thoughts are gonna sound old fashioned, so be it.
Yes there is lot of monies to contract with soda/vending machine companies. I used to work for a large hospital. $3 million contract to go with a particular soda company. An Employee could/would/and were "written up" for public display of competitor product ( brought in their lunch to save paying the vending machine price).
When I grew up , we walked to school, I used cafeteria mostly in grade school, we brown bagged for field trips. No fast food joints a that time either. We cooked at home...etc. We played hard, we only had 3 TV stations, but we ate good home cooked meals, fruits for snacks. We did not have "ready to eat quickie meals" in stores. We did not have all the preservatives and whom knows what in foods either.
Jr./Sr. High. I never put foot in the school cafe, not even when we were to duck for cover during a tornado. I took my lunch in Jr high. Now Sr. HS, we had a "Campus Inn", BB-Q, Burgers, Chips, sodas, malts - you name it. We could also smoke in the Campus Inn. We also had "open campus" come and go as please, your job to make it to class. I think I lived on bean dip, fritos, and cokes/coffee/tea during my senior year.
I knew how to cut up a fresh chicken and how to cook it. I knew how to pick fruit and veggies and prepare them. I did take homemade roast beef sandwiches/ cold fried chicken/ fresh caught crappie/bream/bass cold for lunch some...no microwaves...tho' that "radar range" was being touted in some restaurants.
We carried knives and had firearms in vehicles, we may hunt before/after school. We also had firearms in gym to teach safety, shot BB/Pellet guns indoors and archery as well. No big deal if a student wanted to share a firearm in class...gee in speech we had speeches with war relics passed around.
We could even smoke in designated area inside the school, didn't want butts in toliets to stop-up the plumbing.
Now I never took nutrition,per se'. We touched on it. My former stepson, inherited bad genes genes from his dad's family on the weight deal. My ex was a nurse, pediatric nurse, she too noticed an increase in obesity. We as parents, got that boy involved in excercise, okay it may sound "corny" but we ate as family, and we and the dog took walks. We played toss the medicine ball, we wrestled, well I had to take turns with each...at his age not a good idea to have him wrestle mom. We involved him on the nutrition aspect of grocery shopping. I even took him to attend some lectures in regard to obesity as it pertained to kids and his peers. Ok, sounds corny, but I/we be damned if the gummit was going to 'educate him'...they obviously had done a piss poor job with his peers. I/we took responsibilty, he did inherit the couch potato gene from his slob of a dad.
There was also an increase in the medication of kids. Yeah well , sure kids are kids, but in my day the teachers knew how to teach, they had control of classroom, parents were involved in the students studies.
I know a relative, whom the teacher could not teach,she recomended over half the students "needed meds". Parents raised hell, fired the teacher, no meds for students and all better.
We didn't have all this friggin' "control, and protection" when I grew up. We had discipline and respect, none of this pc crap. Don't tell me kids didn't have stress,we had kids whom lost parents in Wars, went off to War, had Dads moms and sibs die /come home maimed from War. Hell Kids too busy helping with family to get into trouble...gain weight.
Quit protecting the kids, quit protecting them with preservatives and whatever else is in food. Quit stressing them out with bad teachers, whom push for "goals" to receive more gummit money. Hell if they want to smoke in HS, provide a damn place for it, inside to boot...they are going to anyway, why make them late for class?
All this anti firearm crap, no weapons on campus...gimee a break. We carried knives, hell a guy was not considered dressed with out one. The gals carried too, bunch of straight razors used as well. I tell you what, even with the "unrest" of War, demonstratioins, riots...we didn't shoot anyone with the deer rifle in the pick-up. People "respected on another" hell we were all "armed".
I assure you some idiot come in and want to start shooting, well you know, some folks carried all the time, like teachers. Someone at leastone- mor likely many would have knifed 'em. IF the perp made it outside, he wouldn't die tired...we knew how to shoot, probably get hit with a barrage.
Probably why we were not "so stressed" about world events and the commies, civil defence, we were prepared...we may have differed on opinions b/t students...I know as whole we could hold the fort .
All this gummit control, preservatives, breakdown of family units, everyone in a hurry going nowhere, medicate to educate, indoctrination not education, kids not able to play for fear of abduction...hell no wonder! It ain't the damn sodas/vending machines folks, we have a gummit "gonna take care us" problem.
I know one girl walking to school that an attempted attack ocurred by an escaped convict on a work detail...she sliced him to ribbons before the LEO on horseback arrived. She didin't get into trouble, they drove her home to change clothes, and they went with parents to explain the "tardy" and no problem.
This crap hits a nerve with me. All this school uniform crap my neices and nephews have to put up with...now discipline is one thing, like the Catholic boys and girls school we had in town. This pc crap because of feelings getting hurt over a pair of stupid - too expensive tennis.shoes..let them box /wrestle off the steam, run laps...sheesh. Keds, Converse, Adidas, were the only choices...well Puma came along, I use those for cross-country.
Nephew caught flak because he once brought fresh apples and cheese to kindergarten for a snack. "Oh we don't recommend he do that again, some kids don't have that "opportunity", the snack packs "we get" for them...I had gone to pick nephew up , I halted that speil " listen lady it ain't his fault others kids parents are smoking dope or momma can't keep knees together and spits out kids she has no idea whom the daddy is". I told brother to jerk his butt out of that kindergarten, after what happened...he/SIL put him in kindergarten elsewhere - real quick!
We don't need no education
We don't need no thought control - Pink Floyd
Yes there is lot of monies to contract with soda/vending machine companies. I used to work for a large hospital. $3 million contract to go with a particular soda company. An Employee could/would/and were "written up" for public display of competitor product ( brought in their lunch to save paying the vending machine price).
When I grew up , we walked to school, I used cafeteria mostly in grade school, we brown bagged for field trips. No fast food joints a that time either. We cooked at home...etc. We played hard, we only had 3 TV stations, but we ate good home cooked meals, fruits for snacks. We did not have "ready to eat quickie meals" in stores. We did not have all the preservatives and whom knows what in foods either.
Jr./Sr. High. I never put foot in the school cafe, not even when we were to duck for cover during a tornado. I took my lunch in Jr high. Now Sr. HS, we had a "Campus Inn", BB-Q, Burgers, Chips, sodas, malts - you name it. We could also smoke in the Campus Inn. We also had "open campus" come and go as please, your job to make it to class. I think I lived on bean dip, fritos, and cokes/coffee/tea during my senior year.
I knew how to cut up a fresh chicken and how to cook it. I knew how to pick fruit and veggies and prepare them. I did take homemade roast beef sandwiches/ cold fried chicken/ fresh caught crappie/bream/bass cold for lunch some...no microwaves...tho' that "radar range" was being touted in some restaurants.
We carried knives and had firearms in vehicles, we may hunt before/after school. We also had firearms in gym to teach safety, shot BB/Pellet guns indoors and archery as well. No big deal if a student wanted to share a firearm in class...gee in speech we had speeches with war relics passed around.
We could even smoke in designated area inside the school, didn't want butts in toliets to stop-up the plumbing.
Now I never took nutrition,per se'. We touched on it. My former stepson, inherited bad genes genes from his dad's family on the weight deal. My ex was a nurse, pediatric nurse, she too noticed an increase in obesity. We as parents, got that boy involved in excercise, okay it may sound "corny" but we ate as family, and we and the dog took walks. We played toss the medicine ball, we wrestled, well I had to take turns with each...at his age not a good idea to have him wrestle mom. We involved him on the nutrition aspect of grocery shopping. I even took him to attend some lectures in regard to obesity as it pertained to kids and his peers. Ok, sounds corny, but I/we be damned if the gummit was going to 'educate him'...they obviously had done a piss poor job with his peers. I/we took responsibilty, he did inherit the couch potato gene from his slob of a dad.
There was also an increase in the medication of kids. Yeah well , sure kids are kids, but in my day the teachers knew how to teach, they had control of classroom, parents were involved in the students studies.
I know a relative, whom the teacher could not teach,she recomended over half the students "needed meds". Parents raised hell, fired the teacher, no meds for students and all better.
We didn't have all this friggin' "control, and protection" when I grew up. We had discipline and respect, none of this pc crap. Don't tell me kids didn't have stress,we had kids whom lost parents in Wars, went off to War, had Dads moms and sibs die /come home maimed from War. Hell Kids too busy helping with family to get into trouble...gain weight.
Quit protecting the kids, quit protecting them with preservatives and whatever else is in food. Quit stressing them out with bad teachers, whom push for "goals" to receive more gummit money. Hell if they want to smoke in HS, provide a damn place for it, inside to boot...they are going to anyway, why make them late for class?
All this anti firearm crap, no weapons on campus...gimee a break. We carried knives, hell a guy was not considered dressed with out one. The gals carried too, bunch of straight razors used as well. I tell you what, even with the "unrest" of War, demonstratioins, riots...we didn't shoot anyone with the deer rifle in the pick-up. People "respected on another" hell we were all "armed".
I assure you some idiot come in and want to start shooting, well you know, some folks carried all the time, like teachers. Someone at leastone- mor likely many would have knifed 'em. IF the perp made it outside, he wouldn't die tired...we knew how to shoot, probably get hit with a barrage.
Probably why we were not "so stressed" about world events and the commies, civil defence, we were prepared...we may have differed on opinions b/t students...I know as whole we could hold the fort .
All this gummit control, preservatives, breakdown of family units, everyone in a hurry going nowhere, medicate to educate, indoctrination not education, kids not able to play for fear of abduction...hell no wonder! It ain't the damn sodas/vending machines folks, we have a gummit "gonna take care us" problem.
I know one girl walking to school that an attempted attack ocurred by an escaped convict on a work detail...she sliced him to ribbons before the LEO on horseback arrived. She didin't get into trouble, they drove her home to change clothes, and they went with parents to explain the "tardy" and no problem.
This crap hits a nerve with me. All this school uniform crap my neices and nephews have to put up with...now discipline is one thing, like the Catholic boys and girls school we had in town. This pc crap because of feelings getting hurt over a pair of stupid - too expensive tennis.shoes..let them box /wrestle off the steam, run laps...sheesh. Keds, Converse, Adidas, were the only choices...well Puma came along, I use those for cross-country.
Nephew caught flak because he once brought fresh apples and cheese to kindergarten for a snack. "Oh we don't recommend he do that again, some kids don't have that "opportunity", the snack packs "we get" for them...I had gone to pick nephew up , I halted that speil " listen lady it ain't his fault others kids parents are smoking dope or momma can't keep knees together and spits out kids she has no idea whom the daddy is". I told brother to jerk his butt out of that kindergarten, after what happened...he/SIL put him in kindergarten elsewhere - real quick!
We don't need no education
We don't need no thought control - Pink Floyd
home
school
What really annoys me is not preservatives to keep food from spoiling, it's all the unnecessary crap. MSG because the food tastes like crap to start with, artificial coloring, even coloring preservatives (not particularly common, but I used to notice that on cans of red kidney beans... I guess someone would be offended if they weren't quite as dark red). There are plenty of canned goods that have nothing more than salt and/or a bit of alcohol to preserve them. It's all the instant precooked food crap that has terrible and totally unnecessary chemicals. I refuse to ever eat such stuff again. I'll go on a bread and water diet before I do.
(edit: I went and looked it up. the coloring preservative is disodium EDTA, and a web search will generate the usual "it's bad for you" - "no it's not" war that's so common with preservatives, MSG, thimerosal, etc.)
school
What really annoys me is not preservatives to keep food from spoiling, it's all the unnecessary crap. MSG because the food tastes like crap to start with, artificial coloring, even coloring preservatives (not particularly common, but I used to notice that on cans of red kidney beans... I guess someone would be offended if they weren't quite as dark red). There are plenty of canned goods that have nothing more than salt and/or a bit of alcohol to preserve them. It's all the instant precooked food crap that has terrible and totally unnecessary chemicals. I refuse to ever eat such stuff again. I'll go on a bread and water diet before I do.
(edit: I went and looked it up. the coloring preservative is disodium EDTA, and a web search will generate the usual "it's bad for you" - "no it's not" war that's so common with preservatives, MSG, thimerosal, etc.)
JohnBT
Member
"We don't need no education"
The Floyd could have used some education in the proper use of English.
John
P.S. - By the time I finished high school I think the little cartons of milk were 5 cents or maybe 8 cents. Why worry about sodas? Have you seen how much sugar some folks put in their coffee and iced tea? Yuck. And don't get me started on that sugar-enriched non-dairy coffee whitener.
The Floyd could have used some education in the proper use of English.
John
P.S. - By the time I finished high school I think the little cartons of milk were 5 cents or maybe 8 cents. Why worry about sodas? Have you seen how much sugar some folks put in their coffee and iced tea? Yuck. And don't get me started on that sugar-enriched non-dairy coffee whitener.
sm
member
me...
Hey, publik schoolen in the south...ain't how it rote but the message. LOL
Yeah I miss those little milk glass bottles with cardbord top for .03...eventually .05. Mini-loaves of bread too, just perfect for a olive - egg sandwich.
Shoot, I was kinda poor growin up, when Mickey D came about, .17 was a lot for that skinny hamburger...
Hey, publik schoolen in the south...ain't how it rote but the message. LOL
Yeah I miss those little milk glass bottles with cardbord top for .03...eventually .05. Mini-loaves of bread too, just perfect for a olive - egg sandwich.
Shoot, I was kinda poor growin up, when Mickey D came about, .17 was a lot for that skinny hamburger...
We had several vending machines in my high school. Sodas, chips, candy, etc. They were used pretty heavily. Most people got a coke or a bag of chips to go with lunch. I don't see anything wrong with it, and I can't see a decent reason to try to regulate it. The kids who got fat probably had an overall diet/exercise problem. Removing the Coke machine isn't going to help. Getting them off their butts to run a mile a day in gym class, however, would go a long way.
It's not obesity, it's the stupid/lazy disease.
It's not obesity, it's the stupid/lazy disease.
greyhound
Member
That may just be the biggest load of PC garbage I have ever heard. A kid can't can't eat an apple because some other kid doesn't get that "opportunity"? They all have to eat their little school provided bag of preservatives and sugar? Last I heard even the poor in this country can get this great new invention called "food stamps" and I don't think apples are currently neck and neck with gold as to which costs more. Good Lord.
Far as smoking in schools goes, at least in MD in the 80s if you were 16 and got parental permission you could smoke in the Student Smoking Lounge. Nowadays I hear they do sting operations on 7-11s trying to catch them selling cigarettes to under 18s.
JohnBT
Member
"Shoot, I was kinda poor growin up, when Mickey D came about, .17 was a lot for that skinny hamburger..."
Heh, heh, heh, a youngster huh? When I worked there they were only 15 cents. John
Heh, heh, heh, a youngster huh? When I worked there they were only 15 cents. John
BowStreetRunner
Member
when i was in high school they turned the soda machines off at lunch time
guess that was there lame attempt at a compromise between Coka-Cola and the obesity police
BSR
guess that was there lame attempt at a compromise between Coka-Cola and the obesity police
BSR
nico
Member
that sounds awfully like my high school. May I ask where you teach Norton?
As I said in the previous thread, I don't see what's wrong with this. If anything, it gives the parents more control because if their kid has soda at school on a regular basis, it's because they allow it. Nobody is suggesting that sodas or other junk food not be allowed on school property (in which case I would strongly disagree with it), they're just saying that schools shouldn't go out of their way to help kids eat junk food every day.
Nico,
You can ask....but I won't tell ya
I'd rather not say as I've been rather critical of both my school and the PGCPS on this board as well as others.
Let's just say that I teach in your fair county and leave it at that.
What school did you go to?
You can ask....but I won't tell ya
I'd rather not say as I've been rather critical of both my school and the PGCPS on this board as well as others.
Let's just say that I teach in your fair county and leave it at that.
What school did you go to?
Hey sm, remember getting out of school and going home to work? If nothing important was going on going hunting or fishing for supper. Most everybody was outside doing something. The overweight person was the minority. Today everybody runs home, grabs a Mountain Dew and either hits the internet or the playstation. If you see fishing tackle or a rifle it can be a coin toss if it is stolen ot not. Sad.
igor
Member
Big Money's indoctrination belongs to schools even less than Big Government's indoctrination. Nothing wrong with Soda, Inc.'s vending machines and other stuff, even commercials in workbooks? The kids' minds are being sold early and cheap by the ones that should educate them. 
igor
Member
BTW, sm, that was one of the best rants in a while. Made my evening.
nico
Member
I went to Eleanor Roosevelt. lol and as the son of a teacher in the county, and a former student, I'd bet I probably agree with most if not all of your complaints.
p35
Member
When I was in high school around 1980, us kids were trying to start a movement to get alternatives to soda in the vending machines. Were basically told it wasn't possible because fruit juice cost a lot more than soda. Maybe kids today have a different attitude, but I'd like to see them given the choice.
sm
member
Whew! [thud] dang that was tall soap box - huh ? Sorry, but thanks for letting vent.
Just a few nerves got hit. Something recent just set with me wrong. I admit, I'm not the smartest member here, I have to work at some stuff a little harder than some, then again some things come more natural. You folks with math , chemistry, physics skills have my respect.
I do consider myself to have "street smarts" and common sense . Yes I walked, hitch-hiked, caught the bus or bummed a ride to work after school starting in Jr HS. I worked mowing lawns and odd jobs growing up. You did the job your size allowed. Who says a 4 yr old can't clean a tub or take out the trash. Cooked my own breakfast at around 5, it's what one did, pitch in with the family stuff.
Social skills, interaction with folks, thinking on your feet, being aware of the real world...etc., well not all "education" comes from a textbook or a bldg, with "education" etched on the door. IMO.
I have no problem with education, I do have a problem with indoctrination,and control. Folks have the right to be free and that includes thinking for themselves, making their own choices and accepting the results of their actions.
People blame everything on everything else if "it does not turn out right". Want more laws and "control" to "fix" things. Soda/vending machines ain't the problem, it is the individual , the training that individual has/or lack of, and the intent of what an individual does with something.
I don't need a sign on a soda/vending machine to tell me if I tip it over it will fall, and injury will result. Sheesh...I'm not the only one as a child that climbed up a dresser and pulled a drawer onto myself - once was enough [note to self, heavy objects that fall on you hurt] so I never did that again.
So I guess we need to ban dressers with drawers if we follow the same mindset as sodas making folks fat.
I didn't use math or physics to figure it out either...busted my butt, then the drawer put a knot on my noggin...Mom was a lot of help, looked at me, saw I was ok, " I believe I said that would happen if you kept doing that" , popped my butt, later gave me wash cloth with ice cubes and made me hold it to my noggin. She walked off to do other chores. Got a spanking, sore butt and a knot on my head. Made me put all the crap back in the drawer to boot. Nope, don't need a sign on soda machine...I know that lesson all to well.
Just a few nerves got hit. Something recent just set with me wrong. I admit, I'm not the smartest member here, I have to work at some stuff a little harder than some, then again some things come more natural. You folks with math , chemistry, physics skills have my respect.
I do consider myself to have "street smarts" and common sense . Yes I walked, hitch-hiked, caught the bus or bummed a ride to work after school starting in Jr HS. I worked mowing lawns and odd jobs growing up. You did the job your size allowed. Who says a 4 yr old can't clean a tub or take out the trash. Cooked my own breakfast at around 5, it's what one did, pitch in with the family stuff.
Social skills, interaction with folks, thinking on your feet, being aware of the real world...etc., well not all "education" comes from a textbook or a bldg, with "education" etched on the door. IMO.
I have no problem with education, I do have a problem with indoctrination,and control. Folks have the right to be free and that includes thinking for themselves, making their own choices and accepting the results of their actions.
People blame everything on everything else if "it does not turn out right". Want more laws and "control" to "fix" things. Soda/vending machines ain't the problem, it is the individual , the training that individual has/or lack of, and the intent of what an individual does with something.
I don't need a sign on a soda/vending machine to tell me if I tip it over it will fall, and injury will result. Sheesh...I'm not the only one as a child that climbed up a dresser and pulled a drawer onto myself - once was enough [note to self, heavy objects that fall on you hurt] so I never did that again.
So I guess we need to ban dressers with drawers if we follow the same mindset as sodas making folks fat.
I didn't use math or physics to figure it out either...busted my butt, then the drawer put a knot on my noggin...Mom was a lot of help, looked at me, saw I was ok, " I believe I said that would happen if you kept doing that" , popped my butt, later gave me wash cloth with ice cubes and made me hold it to my noggin. She walked off to do other chores. Got a spanking, sore butt and a knot on my head. Made me put all the crap back in the drawer to boot. Nope, don't need a sign on soda machine...I know that lesson all to well.
On the subject of monitoring kids eating habits:
The year after I left high school, they added a new system where each student was given a PIN number. To purchase ANY food from the cafeteria, even if paying cash, the students had to give their PIN number to the lunch lady. After entering the PIN, a picture of the student would pop up on the screen so the lunch lady could verify it was the right person and then the transaction would go through, with the money either being removed from a debit account, or the student handing over the cash. Regardless of payment method, the computer would record what each student bought.
Official reasons given for implementing the system were to not embaress the food-stamp kids, and so the FDA could see what kids were eating (school was given a lot of grant money in return).
Kharn
The year after I left high school, they added a new system where each student was given a PIN number. To purchase ANY food from the cafeteria, even if paying cash, the students had to give their PIN number to the lunch lady. After entering the PIN, a picture of the student would pop up on the screen so the lunch lady could verify it was the right person and then the transaction would go through, with the money either being removed from a debit account, or the student handing over the cash. Regardless of payment method, the computer would record what each student bought.
Official reasons given for implementing the system were to not embaress the food-stamp kids, and so the FDA could see what kids were eating (school was given a lot of grant money in return).
Kharn
SodaPop
member
Golgo-13 was right on.
Coke and Pepsi distribute a huge number of juices and bottle water that getting rid of soda doesn't really affect sales. Things like Fruit Works, Dole juices, Minute Maid ect. are still distributed by Coke and Pepsi.
Several schools in this area have dumped the usual snack machines for cold food (refrigerated ) machines that vend apples and fruit. Things still sell, but its still not stopping kids from stuffing their faces.
Schools use to be the places I focused my business but not anymore. You have to play politics too often when dealing with anything in the ejubacation industry.
Coke and Pepsi distribute a huge number of juices and bottle water that getting rid of soda doesn't really affect sales. Things like Fruit Works, Dole juices, Minute Maid ect. are still distributed by Coke and Pepsi.
Several schools in this area have dumped the usual snack machines for cold food (refrigerated ) machines that vend apples and fruit. Things still sell, but its still not stopping kids from stuffing their faces.
Schools use to be the places I focused my business but not anymore. You have to play politics too often when dealing with anything in the ejubacation industry.
cloudkiller
Member
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2003
- Messages
- 134
Is it Soda....or just Pop?
I am all for getting rid of Soda Machines in schools. The fact is, they are there because of the contracts. That is all.
Of course, here I sit for 15 hours a day by a computer, which is behind a lot of our "fat behinds!"
Schools get money from sodas, they get money from whining about how badly students are doing, from whining about how violent they are etc. In our sensationalized society the only way to get people involved in anything civic is to show a crisis! In the mid-90s my wife was in graduate school for education and the profs went out of their way to teach the students to take all of the talk of school crisis with a grain of salt because it was well known that the crisis talk was intended to secure funding. The fact is most of what we hear about the decline in education is horsecrap. The numbers don't support it. The crime rates don't support it, the pregnancy rate doesn't support it etc. What we risk, however, is making people think that education is doing no good for our kids.
It remains true that everything from committing crimes, to income, to longevity, to being the victim of crimes etc are tied to education level almost directly.
One of the few credible studies I have seen lately shows the relationship between poor teacher quality and bad schools. This is aggravated by low accountability, and horrble wages. ( a good friend makes more delivering pizza than he would working in a High School with his degree). Someone recently laid out a plan that called for teachers to voluntarily exchange job security for higher wages. Basically you could be paid lower but with no accountability, or higher with high accountability and choose whichever contract option you wanted. I think that is a great idea!
I am all for getting rid of Soda Machines in schools. The fact is, they are there because of the contracts. That is all.
Of course, here I sit for 15 hours a day by a computer, which is behind a lot of our "fat behinds!"
Schools get money from sodas, they get money from whining about how badly students are doing, from whining about how violent they are etc. In our sensationalized society the only way to get people involved in anything civic is to show a crisis! In the mid-90s my wife was in graduate school for education and the profs went out of their way to teach the students to take all of the talk of school crisis with a grain of salt because it was well known that the crisis talk was intended to secure funding. The fact is most of what we hear about the decline in education is horsecrap. The numbers don't support it. The crime rates don't support it, the pregnancy rate doesn't support it etc. What we risk, however, is making people think that education is doing no good for our kids.
It remains true that everything from committing crimes, to income, to longevity, to being the victim of crimes etc are tied to education level almost directly.
One of the few credible studies I have seen lately shows the relationship between poor teacher quality and bad schools. This is aggravated by low accountability, and horrble wages. ( a good friend makes more delivering pizza than he would working in a High School with his degree). Someone recently laid out a plan that called for teachers to voluntarily exchange job security for higher wages. Basically you could be paid lower but with no accountability, or higher with high accountability and choose whichever contract option you wanted. I think that is a great idea!
Peetmoss
Member
The schools will never get ride of soda machines. Not only do the schools get a cut of the sale, Coke and Pepsi buy the rights to put the machines there. It can be alot of money for a large school. The school I work for got about 20grand worth of Coke products plus a cut of the sale. Another school got a complete stadiam bought and paid for by Coke.
Soda deal funds schools
Critics say potential harm to students not worth $652,000 from Coca-Cola
By JAMES MERRIWEATHER
Dover Bureau reporter
01/09/2004
Delaware school officials have been negotiating deals with Coke and Pepsi for years, reaping healthy annual payments for the exclusive right to place vending machines in schools.
But few, if any, contracts match the eight-year, $652,000 agreement with Coca-Cola reached last month by the Capital School District. The Dover-based district agreed to sell Coca-Cola products in its cafeterias, teachers' lounges and hallways and at athletic events.
The school board's unanimous approval of the contract, which expands the presence of machines in the middle and elementary schools, comes at a time of mounting national criticism of the practice of making fatty snacks and sugary drinks available to kids at school. Critics contend school vending machines contribute to increasing youth obesity.
Earlier this week, the American Academy of Pediatrics called for eliminating soft drinks from schools. Among other statistics, the academy noted that 15 percent of U.S. children aged 9 to 16 - about 9 million kids - are seriously overweight. That is three times as many as in 1980.
Also this week, Coke and Pepsi said they no longer would sell carbonated beverages in elementary and middle schools in Canada, although water and fruit juice would continue to be sold.
Capital district officials said they heard little opposition from parents or staff to the Coke agreement. And school officials elsewhere in Delaware agreed there is no concerted pressure from parents to clamp down on soft drink sales. The money from the deals would be tough to replace, they said.
The Coca-Cola contract will provide Capital with $81,500 a year, plus commissions on beverage sales. That will be enough to pay for the artificial turf sought for the Dover High School football stadium.
"Last year, we sat down with both Coke and Pepsi, and we said the first one that comes through with the best proposal is the one we go with, and Coca-Cola came through first," Principal Robert D. Adams said.
That is short-sighted, said Patricia C. Conley, supervisor of the Smyrna School District's child nutrition programs, who said she has been opposing vending machines in schools for 30 years.
"To be honest with you, I think we're making money off our children's health," said Conley, who also is Mideast regional director of the American School Food Services Association in Arlington, Va., and president of the Delaware School Administrators Association.
Growing opposition
Opposition to the school vending machines is growing elsewhere.
The New York and Los Angeles school districts, the country's two largest, have banned soft drink and junk food sales. According to the National Conference of State Legislatures, at least 23 states have restricted, or are considering restricting, the kinds of beverages and snacks available in school vending machines.
In Delaware, the House of Representatives approved a resolution last year calling for a voluntary effort to put more healthful food and drinks in school vending machines. But no law is likely.
The 19 public school districts in the state are free to make their own rules on vending machines. Most districts restrict where machines are placed in the schools, what can be sold from them and when.
Three districts - Caesar Rodney, Polytech and Colonial - have no exclusive beverage agreements, based on a phone survey of 15 districts and information from Coke and Pepsi representatives.
Pepsi and Coke enforce bans on carbonated beverage sales to elementary school pupils. Most of Pepsi's agreements limit vending machine beverage sales to adults in elementary and middle schools. In high schools, many of its machines are timed to dispense drinks only after the school day ends.
Under Capital's agreement, all vending machine beverages at elementary schools are limited to administration, faculty and adult staff members. At middle schools, drinks are sold only in the cafeteria at lunch time. At the high school, only two of the 15 machines dispense carbonated drinks. Under "model guidelines" adopted by Coke last year, the carbonated drinks can be purchased only after 1 p.m.
Adams said teachers decide whether students can drink beverages during class.
Curtis Etherly, a spokesman for Mid Atlantic Coca Cola Bottling Co., of Columbia, Md., said the industry's restrictions on carbonated beverages are in keeping with federal regulations that bar them from cafeterias where government-sponsored lunches and breakfasts are offered.
But the restriction does not extend to high-sugar iced teas and juice drinks, available in 13 of Dover High's 15 vending machines.
"What we've seen is a big increase in consumption of noncarbonated beverages," Etherly said, "and we think you can enjoy them as part of a healthy and active lifestyle."
But is iced tea better?
David Grier, a 14-year-old freshman, bought a 20-ounce bottle of Nestea for $1 from a machine in one of Dover High's main hallways. The bottle contained three servings and, depending on flavoring, up to 60 grams of sugar - the equivalent of 14.3 teaspoons.
"I don't drink sodas," David said. "Sodas are not healthy for you."
His mother, Beverly Smith, said later she shuns soda at home in favor of milk, juices and, occasionally, iced tea. She said she did not object to vending machines in the schools.
"If people want to have sodas in moderation, I think that's fine," David said. "Parents need to teach their kids what to buy and what not to buy."
Coke and Pepsi spokesmen acknowledged the obesity problem, but said soft drinks and sugar were unduly demonized. The lack of exercise by young people is the real culprit, they said.
David Goslee, on-premises food service director for Pepsi Cola Bottling Co. of Salisbury, Md., said Pepsi hoped the agreements would foster brand loyalty. But he said they mainly are a response to schools seeking help with money shortfalls, especially for athletic programs.
"They came to us with needs that we were able to fill as a community-involved bottler," said Goslee, who oversees agreements with 10 Delaware school districts.
Opponents understand why the agreements are hard to resist, given shortfalls in funding for education.
"We're not talking about a small amount of money," said Arthur Paul, president of Dover High School's Parent-Teacher Organization. His daughter, Alyse, is a junior at Dover High.
"I could see where people could have concerns," he said. "But the fact of the matter is there's money that directly benefits the schools, the teachers and everyone involved."
Some school officials, such as Sandra Thompson, Caesar Rodney's food services supervisor, said the potential harm of the vending contracts is not worth the added revenue.
"We don't have one and, no, we're not interested in having one," Thompson said. "They're not for the benefit of the district or the children. We purchase things that we feel are best for our children's health and well-being."
Pam Gouge, a registered dietician who supervises food services in the Brandywine School District, heads a committee of the Delaware Action for Healthy Kids Coalition, the state affiliate of a national organization headed by former Surgeon General David Satcher that is trying to improve the health of schoolchildren.
The coalition last year recommended a set of voluntary
standards to limit high-fat and sugar-laden snacks in school cafeterias. Urging a voluntary ban on school vending machines is a possibility, but Gouge said a legislative mandate might not be the best option. A better approach, she said, might be allowing nutritionists and other school officials to decide which products to offer.
"There's some good things about these agreements," Gouge said. "They bring in money that the school districts desperately need. If we can dictate what goes into those machines, it can be a win-win situation for us."
Conley, the Smyrna vending machine opponent, said it is possible to make money selling more healthful fare.
She has set up her own milk concession that she said is turning a consistent profit.
"Believe it or not," she said, "a lot of kids like it."
Critics say potential harm to students not worth $652,000 from Coca-Cola
By JAMES MERRIWEATHER
Dover Bureau reporter
01/09/2004
Delaware school officials have been negotiating deals with Coke and Pepsi for years, reaping healthy annual payments for the exclusive right to place vending machines in schools.
But few, if any, contracts match the eight-year, $652,000 agreement with Coca-Cola reached last month by the Capital School District. The Dover-based district agreed to sell Coca-Cola products in its cafeterias, teachers' lounges and hallways and at athletic events.
The school board's unanimous approval of the contract, which expands the presence of machines in the middle and elementary schools, comes at a time of mounting national criticism of the practice of making fatty snacks and sugary drinks available to kids at school. Critics contend school vending machines contribute to increasing youth obesity.
Earlier this week, the American Academy of Pediatrics called for eliminating soft drinks from schools. Among other statistics, the academy noted that 15 percent of U.S. children aged 9 to 16 - about 9 million kids - are seriously overweight. That is three times as many as in 1980.
Also this week, Coke and Pepsi said they no longer would sell carbonated beverages in elementary and middle schools in Canada, although water and fruit juice would continue to be sold.
Capital district officials said they heard little opposition from parents or staff to the Coke agreement. And school officials elsewhere in Delaware agreed there is no concerted pressure from parents to clamp down on soft drink sales. The money from the deals would be tough to replace, they said.
The Coca-Cola contract will provide Capital with $81,500 a year, plus commissions on beverage sales. That will be enough to pay for the artificial turf sought for the Dover High School football stadium.
"Last year, we sat down with both Coke and Pepsi, and we said the first one that comes through with the best proposal is the one we go with, and Coca-Cola came through first," Principal Robert D. Adams said.
That is short-sighted, said Patricia C. Conley, supervisor of the Smyrna School District's child nutrition programs, who said she has been opposing vending machines in schools for 30 years.
"To be honest with you, I think we're making money off our children's health," said Conley, who also is Mideast regional director of the American School Food Services Association in Arlington, Va., and president of the Delaware School Administrators Association.
Growing opposition
Opposition to the school vending machines is growing elsewhere.
The New York and Los Angeles school districts, the country's two largest, have banned soft drink and junk food sales. According to the National Conference of State Legislatures, at least 23 states have restricted, or are considering restricting, the kinds of beverages and snacks available in school vending machines.
In Delaware, the House of Representatives approved a resolution last year calling for a voluntary effort to put more healthful food and drinks in school vending machines. But no law is likely.
The 19 public school districts in the state are free to make their own rules on vending machines. Most districts restrict where machines are placed in the schools, what can be sold from them and when.
Three districts - Caesar Rodney, Polytech and Colonial - have no exclusive beverage agreements, based on a phone survey of 15 districts and information from Coke and Pepsi representatives.
Pepsi and Coke enforce bans on carbonated beverage sales to elementary school pupils. Most of Pepsi's agreements limit vending machine beverage sales to adults in elementary and middle schools. In high schools, many of its machines are timed to dispense drinks only after the school day ends.
Under Capital's agreement, all vending machine beverages at elementary schools are limited to administration, faculty and adult staff members. At middle schools, drinks are sold only in the cafeteria at lunch time. At the high school, only two of the 15 machines dispense carbonated drinks. Under "model guidelines" adopted by Coke last year, the carbonated drinks can be purchased only after 1 p.m.
Adams said teachers decide whether students can drink beverages during class.
Curtis Etherly, a spokesman for Mid Atlantic Coca Cola Bottling Co., of Columbia, Md., said the industry's restrictions on carbonated beverages are in keeping with federal regulations that bar them from cafeterias where government-sponsored lunches and breakfasts are offered.
But the restriction does not extend to high-sugar iced teas and juice drinks, available in 13 of Dover High's 15 vending machines.
"What we've seen is a big increase in consumption of noncarbonated beverages," Etherly said, "and we think you can enjoy them as part of a healthy and active lifestyle."
But is iced tea better?
David Grier, a 14-year-old freshman, bought a 20-ounce bottle of Nestea for $1 from a machine in one of Dover High's main hallways. The bottle contained three servings and, depending on flavoring, up to 60 grams of sugar - the equivalent of 14.3 teaspoons.
"I don't drink sodas," David said. "Sodas are not healthy for you."
His mother, Beverly Smith, said later she shuns soda at home in favor of milk, juices and, occasionally, iced tea. She said she did not object to vending machines in the schools.
"If people want to have sodas in moderation, I think that's fine," David said. "Parents need to teach their kids what to buy and what not to buy."
Coke and Pepsi spokesmen acknowledged the obesity problem, but said soft drinks and sugar were unduly demonized. The lack of exercise by young people is the real culprit, they said.
David Goslee, on-premises food service director for Pepsi Cola Bottling Co. of Salisbury, Md., said Pepsi hoped the agreements would foster brand loyalty. But he said they mainly are a response to schools seeking help with money shortfalls, especially for athletic programs.
"They came to us with needs that we were able to fill as a community-involved bottler," said Goslee, who oversees agreements with 10 Delaware school districts.
Opponents understand why the agreements are hard to resist, given shortfalls in funding for education.
"We're not talking about a small amount of money," said Arthur Paul, president of Dover High School's Parent-Teacher Organization. His daughter, Alyse, is a junior at Dover High.
"I could see where people could have concerns," he said. "But the fact of the matter is there's money that directly benefits the schools, the teachers and everyone involved."
Some school officials, such as Sandra Thompson, Caesar Rodney's food services supervisor, said the potential harm of the vending contracts is not worth the added revenue.
"We don't have one and, no, we're not interested in having one," Thompson said. "They're not for the benefit of the district or the children. We purchase things that we feel are best for our children's health and well-being."
Pam Gouge, a registered dietician who supervises food services in the Brandywine School District, heads a committee of the Delaware Action for Healthy Kids Coalition, the state affiliate of a national organization headed by former Surgeon General David Satcher that is trying to improve the health of schoolchildren.
The coalition last year recommended a set of voluntary
standards to limit high-fat and sugar-laden snacks in school cafeterias. Urging a voluntary ban on school vending machines is a possibility, but Gouge said a legislative mandate might not be the best option. A better approach, she said, might be allowing nutritionists and other school officials to decide which products to offer.
"There's some good things about these agreements," Gouge said. "They bring in money that the school districts desperately need. If we can dictate what goes into those machines, it can be a win-win situation for us."
Conley, the Smyrna vending machine opponent, said it is possible to make money selling more healthful fare.
She has set up her own milk concession that she said is turning a consistent profit.
"Believe it or not," she said, "a lot of kids like it."
Oleg Volk
Moderator Emeritus
I recall forgoing soda in favor of bringing juice cartons from home because the extra 30 cents were too much money...how's that for the positive effects of being cheap? Then again, I do notice that it is literally cheaper to make real food along the lines of a pork chop dinner with trimmings, than to buy pre-cooked, heavily processed food that isn't as good.
Just to turn this discussion back to our favorite topic... Bernie White told of making semi-auto lifes at the school workshop and displaying them at the end of the school year. As recently as the laste 80s and early 90s, it was possible to come to school armed. Seeing the direction of the trend, I'd say that home schooling is the way.
Best students I have in college are mostly home-schooled. Seeing Mamo06's family was another argument for that solution. Maybe home-schoolers here could chime in.
We can argue about the ways to fix schools but the problem is that, unless we do it ourselves or contract chosen individuals to do it for us, we'll never like the results.
Just to turn this discussion back to our favorite topic... Bernie White told of making semi-auto lifes at the school workshop and displaying them at the end of the school year. As recently as the laste 80s and early 90s, it was possible to come to school armed. Seeing the direction of the trend, I'd say that home schooling is the way.
Best students I have in college are mostly home-schooled. Seeing Mamo06's family was another argument for that solution. Maybe home-schoolers here could chime in.
We can argue about the ways to fix schools but the problem is that, unless we do it ourselves or contract chosen individuals to do it for us, we'll never like the results.
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