Gun store what to do

[The Lone Haranguer]

Without knowing all the facts, MYOB and let the gun shop people handle it.

 

[psyshack]

I would have made a beeline out of the store or two another part of the store and called the store and told them what I had just over heard. And leave it at that.

The clerk was already leary.

 

[jerkface11]

If the facts are accurate as you have relayed them, you did the wrong thing by not speaking up.

No he did not do the wrong thing. At the very worst he didn't help enforce an unjust law. That isn't doing wrong.

 

[BobTheTomato]

In all honesty, saying something sounds like a hassle and could pull you into a confrontation with the other couple.

 

[TempestP226]

That's one of those situations where I think I'd have to have been in your shoes at the moment to really decide. I suppose it would depend on what kind of vibe I got from the couple.

Having said that, I've seen some real dummies selling lead delivery devices. In fact, last fall while I was back home visiting my family, I was helping my father pick out a shotgun for my sister (she's 15). Dick's happened to have the best price on the model he was interested in, so there we were, inspecting the fit and finish on a 20Ga Steven's O/U shotgun. During this inspection, we were discussing how we thought it would fit my sister's petite build. The clerk overhears this, and suddenly decides "Woah! Stop! Who's getting this gun?" At this point I would have kept my mouth shut and not have tried to explain it, but my father decides to tell them it's a gift for his 15 year old daughter, but being that she's a minor, legally it will be his, bought and owned in his name. They ended up in a tizzy with a supervisor trying to decide if this was a straw purchase.
In the end, they sold us the gun; but it took everything I had not to say, "Oh yes, we're trying to buy a shotgun for my 15 year old fugitive sister because she lost her last one trying to catch up with a payroll train on horseback."

 

[Black Butte]

No he did not do the wrong thing. At the very worst he didn't help enforce an unjust law. That isn't doing wrong.

Making straw purchases illegal is not an unjust law. Also, if law-abiding gun owners sit idly by and do nothing while potential felons illegally acquire weapons, we will end up with many more restrictive laws that even further curtail our freedoms. Feinstein and her ilk would love to see more straw purchases, as it would provide them with the excuse to push for everyone being banned from purchasing a firearm.

 

[X-Rap]

I think he should have proned both of em out and had em all zip tied when the cops showed up.

 

[mnrivrat]

I guess I would mind my own business. You don't actually know what was happening just from one comment you overheard, which you easily could have misheard too. He may have been her gun knowledgeable friend helping her pick out a SHTF rifle and innocently told her not to make them think she was buying it for him specifically so he didn't raise straw purchase concerns. That's reaching but thats the point, you don't know the situation and it really isn't any of your business.

I am going to +1 on that answer. Besides not personaly agreeing with that law as it is written, and many other retrictive laws, I do not see myself as the policing agent to my neighbors.

 

[Neverwinter]

In all honesty, saying something sounds like a hassle and could pull you into a confrontation with the other couple.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing

 

[BobTheTomato]

No good deed goes unpunished

 

[Sam1911]

All that glitters is not gold.

 

[Ole Coot]

Strange, I would think they would know of an illegal source. That was so open I am afraid I would leave it to the clerk unless it was a store I knew the clerks and owner then a heads up.

 

[bbuddtec]

good question, maybe the clerk shut 'em down after you left... maybe he should have...

if it was someone I knew I'd probably get out front and call him on my cell phone, suggest further questioning, or see what he thinks

otherwise, there's plenty of people that will be lazy and try to be ignorant, even as the cuffs go on... seems there could be 3 ppl in the wrong there, all foolish enough to gamble on doing time, with other customers as witness.

 

[henschman]

Put me down in the "Over my dead body will I help the federal government enforce a tyrannical law" camp.

To me, it's as simple as the right to property, the right to contract, and the right to free association.

Anyone who disobeys a tyrannical law that is violative of the rightful liberty of individuals has my full support.

 

[gamestalker]

Well Ally, not all states require permits and registration. In my state, that being Arizona, and other's like it, we can buy firearms after filling out the single FFL questionair and an instant background check. No permits are necessary to purchase or carry in our state. Further more, a person can sell a firearm to another individual without any paper work what so ever.
We can also carry open or concealed without any permit. There are some instances when a CCW is required such as carrying in a bar.

 

[jerkface11]

Making straw purchases illegal is not an unjust law. Also, if law-abiding gun owners sit idly by and do nothing while potential felons illegally acquire weapons, we will end up with many more restrictive laws that even further curtail our freedoms. Feinstein and her ilk would love to see more straw purchases, as it would provide them with the excuse to push for everyone being banned from purchasing a firearm.
__________________

The law a straw purchase breaks is unconstitutional. You suggest we help the government curtail our freedoms so they don't do it more. I'll pass.

 

[baylorattorney]

It's just another instance where gun laws only effect law abiding citizens negatively. Criminals will get guns no matter what.

 

[mattmacklind]

You can always leave and call the place on your cel to tell someone what you heard.

 

[Black Butte]

The law a straw purchase breaks is unconstitutional.

Not true. Even under strict scrutiny, the most stringent level for judicial review when considering the constitutionality of laws, this law will stand if there is a compelling government interest that cannot reasonably be achieved by a less restrictive means. In this case, the governments objective is to keep guns out of the hands of felons by making it illegal for others to buy guns for them when they themselves are not legally allowed to posses them. The law against straw purchases is constitutional.

You suggest we help the government curtail our freedoms so they don't do it more. I'll pass.

Nope, I'm not suggesting this at all. You need to reread my post. In an effort to make my point more transparent, let me suggest for the sake of argument that you deem the law preventing you from running red lights and driving over 75 mph in school zones unconstitutional and a violation of your freedoms. How long do you think you'd be allowed to continue driving?

 

[jcwit]

See it all the time here in Amish Country as they do not have picture ID, and in alot of cases no ID at all.

 

[buck460XVR]

No he did not do the wrong thing. At the very worst he didn't help enforce an unjust law. That isn't doing wrong.

Making straw purchases illegal is not an unjust law. Also, if law-abiding gun owners sit idly by and do nothing while potential felons illegally acquire weapons, we will end up with many more restrictive laws that even further curtail our freedoms. Feinstein and her ilk would love to see more straw purchases, as it would provide them with the excuse to push for everyone being banned from purchasing a firearm.

+1. Hard for me to believe any intelligent adult would endorse the selling of firearms to convicted felons and certified looneys. The scenario presented by the OP was not a casual gun buy. It was clearly a situation where a prohibited person was getting possession of a firearm. Allowing this to happen, not only put a firearm into this persons hands, but jeopardized the LGS's FFL.

 

[Sam1911]

The scenario presented by the OP was not a casual gun buy. It was clearly a situation where a prohibited person was getting possession of a firearm.

We really don't have enough information to say that. Without a much more extensive understanding of the background and intents of the two folks the OP observed, we can't know enough to make a judgment.

Let me just reiterate what I said up in post 28:

I think that the intent of a person's words can be easily misunderstood.

I can also see this side of the story. If, by chance, the man was there helping the lady to pick out two guns for her, he would have been perfectly right to caution her not to mistakenly indicate that they would be for him, knowing that this would (should) kill the sale.

Without knowing what, exactly, they were up to, it is hard to say for sure that they were breaking the law.

And, the gifting thing makes it very awkward. It would be legal for her to buy those two guns as a gift for him. Nothing in the law says that gift has to be a surprise, nor that the giftee cannot be present at the time of the purchase. And, if they share a bank account, even the usual "who's money is it question" goes right out the window.

In the case of a gift, the man may have been over-cautiously instructing the lady not to make statements about him being the ultimate recipient as that would raise unnecessary (and irrelevant) red flags to the clerk.

My own wife has run into this with clerks who didn't quite know the law as well as they should have. She bought me an AK as a gift for my birthday one year. She told the gun shop manager she was buying it as a gift for me and he got all conspiratorial and told her, "Oh no! Don't tell me that! No, you're buying this for yourself! We don't want to be breaking the law! (Nudge, nudge, wink wink!)." All of which was absurd as there was no law broken in her buying a rifle as a gift for me.

In the end, the man may have had perfectly innocent reasons for instructing the woman to keep things simple and to say, "Don't tell them you're buying this for me."

Reporting them to the clerk would almost certainly have killed the sale. Should that sale have been allowed to proceed? None of us (including the OP) has enough information to say with anything close to certainty.

 

[txhoghunter]

It is not crystal clear whether this was an illegal buy, however, the situation described does set off a few alarms. Even if you think it could have been a legal buy, I feel that a call to the owner is in order to give him the heads-up as to what you heard. It never hurts to be a little extra cautious, especially when our gun rights hang in the balance over illegal weapons purchases.

 

[grumpy66]

He could have had an out of state ID.
My girlfriend is from across the state line and we go gun shopping together.
If we are here and she sees one she likes, I get it for her. Same if we are there.
I have bought a few for her daughter too.

 

[MattTheHat]

He could have had an out of state ID.
My girlfriend is from across the state line and we go gun shopping together.
If we are here and she sees one she likes, I get it for her. Same if we are there.
I have bought a few for her daughter too.

Um, that's a straw purchase. If you know for a fact that she's from another state, you can't legally transfer a firearm to her (without going through an FFL).

-Matt