Has Tactical Gone Too Far?

[Mannlicher]

it has gotten so far out of line, that its downright stupid now. Maybe its 'tactiStupid'.

 

[f4t9r]

whatever one wants. I just do not have the $$$ to trick mine out.
I do like em !!!!!!

 

[coylh]

People sure are good at finding opportunities to be offended.

 

[R.W.Dale]

On the same line of thinking. has anybody noticed that police are now "Law ENFORCEMENT officers" not peace officers or police officers.

 

[Lex]

I like the Tacti-Cool stuff.

I just got some of the Oakley Assault boots (thanks Santa!). WOW! These are very comfortable...even compared to my converse tactical boots.

Love the EOTECH scopes, AIMPOINTS, etc on my M-4'gery too.

I don't , however,condone dressing in a gilley suit to "play" in the woods.



Lex

 

[thereisnospoon]

Times change

I also think that to many people now have to rely on doo-dads to for basic firearms skills. Iron sights are on a gun for a reason. Learn to use them effectively and the need for fancy scopes for quick close range shooting won't be nearly as great.

I am in the medical field. Are you telling me that the Cardiologist I work with should learn to do Cardiac surgeory like they did 20 years ago, and then once he's succesful at that he could then learn the more inticate techniques currently in use. I understand how to use the iron sights on my M14/S, and have a SE, Inc. Scope Mount that allows the use of the irons, should the need arise. The HWS is faster/easier.

It is obvious to me that you are speaking as someone who has never used a HWS or red dot in a CQB style training class or competition (this is not an accusation, just an observation). Shooting a friend's one time at the range doesn't count...

Why do you suppose the guys who shoot Open class can shoot scenarios SO MUCH FASTER/BETTER/MORE ACCURATE than stock class?

Again, to each his own, but I want every advantage both in competition and in home defense.

 

[M.E.Eldridge]

Yeah, they are there to use if the primary sight goes down. Sure they won't be as fast since you have to align three different objects (rear sight, front sight, target) in three different focal planes. They also require a consistent cheek weld unlike a holographic or red dot sight.

As to the rest of the stuff, buy what you need and want. Don't buy the rest. Most of that stuff has very practical applications; but if you do most of your shooting at fixed targets from the bench, you won't really get much chance to appeciate what they add. Also in a lot of cases, some gear is very specific and is good for a certain role and not so good for others. If you have made the wrong trade-off you may not be happy with that gear; but it doesn't mean it has no purpose.

Ah, so iron sides are back up? Here I thought they were a legitimate target aquisition system.

Seriously though, I think its just the opposite. Scopes and fancy sights are the back up. If you need quick sighting, go for your scope. If you need long range sniping go for the scope. If you need moderate mid range shooting under most conditions use your iron sights. If you were bieng attacked would you want to rely on a piece of electronics that may malfunction or do you want dependable iron sights.

Furthermore, if I thought I need to defend myself I'm going to have my rifle loaded,cocked and at my shoulder.If an animal charged me I'd be able to get a shot off as accurately as possible.

Maybe I'm not knowledgeable enough on SWAT/Police/Urban Combat tactics. I live in the country and I don't plan on a tactical entry into a building full of crack dealers anytime soon.

 

[Chris Rhines]

Ah, so iron sides are back up? Here I thought they were a legitimate target aquisition system.

Nope. Backup only. Optics are better for everything, every circumstance that I can think of.

If you were bieng attacked would you want to rely on a piece of electronics that may malfunction or do you want dependable iron sights.

I've made that choice - scope, every time. Scopes are faster, more accurate, and easier to use.

An aside - I've never had any of my scopes fail under hard use. I have had two different sets of iron sights break on me. You tell me which I should depend on.

Maybe I'm not knowledgeable enough on SWAT/Police/Urban Combat tactics.

You said it, not me.

- Chris

 

[spaceCADETzoom]

Maybe I'm not knowledgeable enough on SWAT/Police/Urban Combat tactics.

You said it, not me.

- Chris

I think you unwittingly hit one of the criticisms of tactical right there...

There are a lot of suburban ninjas buying all sorts of crap that has "tactical" on it. SWAT types...who dream of kicking down doors and throwing shurikens...erm...i mean, flashbangs. Guys who are "knowledgable on SWAT/Police/Urban Combat tactics"

Maybe you are a SWAT cop, I dont know you. Even if so, I think the disdain for "tactical" is the underlying juxtaposition of "rough & tough" SWAT versus,say, deployed soldiers, etc... There's just something odd about the inflation of "tacticool" in suburban/urban america. There are countless catalogs out tehre that sell boots, bags, lights, sights, etc...all to "nascar dads" married to soccermoms.

Please note, i don't mean to disparage law abiding citizens who like being "tactical" nor cops who serve thier communities being "tactical." I'm merely noting the ideas behind some who think "tactical fgoing too far."

 

[ajax]

M.E.Eldridge I have to agree with you. I've seen guys with ARs that have so much stuff on it I would be shocked if they could shoot it without a bipod. I guess to each his own. I definitly like my scopes and my halo sight but gadgets just are not for me. I'd still like to know what half that ???? is. When you have more than 5 items attached that have a acronym with 5 or more letters for the name you might have gone over board.

 

[adaman04]

I think some people take it too far as for practicality. Loading your gun down with 10 lbs of crap makes that gun way heavier and therefore often less fun to shoot. Not that it is neccessarily less fun I guess, just more weight to deal with. Why do a lot of people do it? Because this is America* and we can!

*America: According to the current legistlative standings in some areas. Your personal freedoms may differ and are subject to change due to uninformed legisators and soccer moms. We thank you for your time.

 

[WarMachine]

If it brings more people into the shooting sports (especially the youth who's only experience orignally came from video games) then what's the harm?

It's certainly not hurting anything, and there are more choices in firearms today, than there has ever been. This is a time to be happy

 

[1911 guy]

Useful, but over-marketed

A lot of the doo-dadds are in existence because someone has/had a use for them, so I won't say that all things "tactical" are bull hooey, but as a marketing tactic, it's gone way too far. Examples:

BTW, the "quotes" are my ad-lib, not direct from advertisements.

If I buy a Kimber Warrior, it will be because I like the features of the pistol, not because it's "tactical, just like MEUSOC uses". Oh, and MEUSOC pistols are built on Springer frames, IIRC.

Harvester sells pants that go for well over a hundred bucks because they have a built in "tactical thigh holster" built in. How can that not be obvious?

Bipods are now "tactical" instead of a steady shooting platform. Rifles with an extra swivel stud are now "tacical models"

All these things have uses, but it's been done to death as a marketing gimmick.

 

[GoBrush]

It's all a matter of disposable income and taste. Some people like to trick out cars with mud flaps, curb feelers and spoilers. Where's the harm?

+1 dead on Paget

 

[Old Dog]

Tactical is not a noun

Perhaps the question should be, "Has the accessorization fad gone too far?" as the word "tactical" is so often and so readily mis-applied these days as to have lost all meaning.

tactical (tak'tik'l), adj. 1. of tactics, especially in military or naval maneuvers. 2. characterized by or showing cleverness and skill in tactics.

Look at your typical issue of, say, SWAT Magazine. Count the number of advertisements where gear is termed "tactical" or "extreme."

Why are pants being marketed as "tactical?" Because they're black and have lots of pockets? Why does a gun have a "tactical rail" or "tactical sights" rather than an accessory rail or night/light/holo/laser sights? "Tactical flashlights?" Give me a break.

Yes, tactical has gone too far ... in terms of how the word is used. Accessorization? Availability and marketing to the civilian market, of previously military or LE only accessories and gear? No, that's not gone too far -- many of us find this stuff quite useful and enjoyable.

 

[akodo]

I think that's a bit unfair. A kid in a school with a gun, unknown type of gun at the time, calls for SWAT in my opinion.

If MY kid was in school and some nut was walking around the building with a gun I'd want a SWAT team to take him out just exactly like they did.

Kids are imperfect thinkiers, that's why they are called kids. Let's take this one step further. 'Hey Billy, want to see the cool airsoft pistol i got for xmas, i know you and your dad are big into shooting' 'okay! cool!' Wham SWAT shoots your kid in the head.

Look, i am not saying toy guns in schools are a good idea, but you need not storm the building with 20 guys wielding mp-5s

 

[joab]

DELETED
Sorry about that akodo and I both posted on the wrong thread

 

[1911Tuner]

Tactical

yes...Way too far. Understand that it's mainly a marketing ploy for the uninitiated. Sometimes the concept doesn't even apply to the equipment being marketed. Take Smith & Wesson's "Combat Magnum" moniker that they hung on the 4-inch M-19...and then stuck target sights and grips on it!

 

[308win]

I don't , however,condone dressing in a gilley suit to "play" in the woods.Lex

I have been toying with building a gilley suit to see if I have the patience and skill to get really close to a groundhog.

 

[1911Tuner]

Ghillie Suits

I have been toying with building a gilley suit to see if I have the patience and skill to get really close to a groundhog.

Wanna put your suit and your stalking skills to a test? See how close you can get to a Wild Turkey! Whew!

 

[pwrtool45]

yes...Way too far. Understand that it's mainly a marketing ploy for the uninitiated. Sometimes the concept doesn't even apply to the equipment being marketed. Take Smith & Wesson's "Combat Magnum" moniker that they hung on the 4-inch M-19...and then stuck target sights and grips on it!

Heh. Well, IIRC, the 686/681 was the Distinguished Combat/Service Magnum, so I was kinda expecting the new 619/620s to be named the "Tactical Combat/Service Magnum." It's tactical, see, cause it's got titanium and, uh, black stuff on it.

Along with Old Dog and 1911guy, I also thought the tactical pants (511s or whatnot?) was borderline. What's next? Tactical underwear? Camoflage the skid marks of the S Hitting the F? Now, that'll officially be too far.

 

[Tom Servo]

Yeah, "tactical" used to be so trendy before everybody started doing it. Used to be, I was the only guy at the beach with a Level II vest and G36 in a thigh holster...

 

[Rem700SD]

I must admit that I've succombed(sp) to the art of accessorizing, which is what I think that the "tactical" craze has become. I think it's due to market forces. There's been a plateau reached in gun design, and in the current legal/litiginous environment, designing new weapons from scratch is nearly impossible. Ron Barrett is one notable exception that I can recall, and he was nearly 20 years ago. Therefore the market has shifted to industries that are less regulated. Ask most gun stores and gun show people, and I'll wager their profit margin is exponentially higher on acessories than the actual gun. Just my observation.
Dan

 

[zahc]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v14/bugman/Picture015.jpg

What stock is that?

 

[Mizzle187]

I love the tactical stuff but then again Im under 30 and live in the city. What Im saying is I think alot of it has to do with age and demographics-but not totally. Is there suck thing as too-tactical? I think so! I have some tactical accessories and weapons. Do I think I went overboard? I know I didnt. I also have a truck thats is only 30% stock. Did I go overboard? I dont think so but there are plenty of people that have! More power to them! What ever makes them happy!