Have We Been Desensitized?

[ol' scratch]

people just like to make sure that they kill the bad guy as dead as possible. say load A kills bad guy 100% dead and load b kills them 150% dead. load b is better. nuff said.

...unless the person is recoil sensitive and never practices with their full-sized pistol. Or if they flinch and completely miss. Shot placement is key. Practice with what you feel comfortable with. The only effective bullet is the bullet that hits its mark.

 

[johnnylaw53]

"The continual blathering about caliber or bullet choice* come from people who think their software problems can be solved with hardware purchasing." from bigfatdave

I think that say it well, been involved in LE both military and county for a total of 38 years have seen a few gun related crimes. It never matter what the person had that defended him/her self as long as they had a gun of some kind and knew how to use it.

be safe

 

[JohnBT]

""The continual blathering about caliber or bullet choice* "

It's a gun forum, don't expect to see a discussion of stamp collecting or surfing. We like talking about gun related stuff. Next week's suggested topic: RH or LH barrel twist; does it make a difference.

 

[bigfatdave]

Oh it sure does!

Everyone knows that hollowpoints are designed to expand while spinning from a RH twist barrel! How do you not know that?!?!?!

 

[481]

There is this continual argument of caliber forever. People seem to be convinced that not only will a certain caliber be the end all be all, but that you have to have a certain load of ammo...

At one point is it just enough to carry some form of firearm protection and have a form of proficient use with it?

Yep.

Proficiency, proper shot placement notwithstanding, outweighs caliber selection.

I'd rather get a good solid "hit" COM with a "small caliber" round that I can control under stress of confrontation than a peripheral "hit" or complete "miss" with a "large caliber" round.

Amateurs argue equipment; professionals emphasize training.

 

[BlindJustice]

I got out of firearm ownership in the early/mid 80s, after being a gun owner and entusiast from my early teens in the '60s I always bought at least one gun mag annual to keep an eye firearms being offered and read the
magazines. Guns & Ammo, American Handgunner etc. so I get back into
it and have been on the Internet since '89? Anyway I sign up for a forum
and the first thread I noted here


???

.357 Mag versus .45 ACP

Heck that was a magazine subject that some writer would put out
in <name the mag rag> every 3 years or so since I started reading
gun mgazines so, the more things change the more they remain the
same. Kinetic energy ( smaller bore / hhigher velocity/ lighter bullet )
vs Momentum ( Big bore SLower heavy bullet) or Revolver vs Semi-Auto....

Cartridge / Caliber Wars Bah - can yah hit anything with that thing ?

R-

 

[Jotobo]

True.

Ive found with my .380 I could easily make half the rounds hit COM under stress. I can hit all of them with either hand during practice. I can do this out to about 6 yards while taking no time to aim, just point and shoot. Honestly, I shouldnt be shooting someone that far away. Thats entering into a gray area self defense wise.

At that range a human body would be screwed. 3 or 4 shots from a .380 at 2-4 yards equals threat neutralized 9 out of 10 times. I think this would be true with a .32 as well.

It seems there are all these stories people can share where only a .45 or .357 would work. I jsut dont see it. People have been getting shot and killed with far weaker bullet and gun technology that we have now.

 

[Sniderman]

Stopping power,
Jack Ruby says that a .38 will do the job.
Lee Harvey Oswald agrees,,,

 

[SA Town]

The continual blathering about caliber or bullet choice* come from people who think their software problems can be solved with hardware purchasing.



* (beyond using a decent HP design)

Hollow point or Hewlett Packard?

 

[RedAlert]

Shockwave, I now see the point you were making. Not sure I agree, but it could be a factor.

In my home there would be no confusion. 12 bore shotgun, in blue, black or stainless, still looks like a subway tunnel to the invader. If I use my handguns, they will see only light from the tac light, not the muzzle in any case.

 

[Don357]

Please understand my last post, that I'm not advocating for "mouseguns" or "handcannons", "factory loads" or "hand loads", but I did read in a forum somewhere, it could have even been this one, where personal defence ammo was being discussed and several posters commented that they would not use even their own "hand loads" for defense loads because of legal reprocussions and "intent" arguments that could be raised by lawyers for the BG or "anti-gun" groups.
I personally have no problem using my own handloads or any caliber for defense. I own and carry, depending on the situation, a .380 Kel-Tec, a 9mm Kel-Tec, a .357 Ruger or a .45acp FEG. The key to a defensive firearm is hitting your target, regardless of caliber or type of ammo.

 

[Skinsanity]

from what I have found, in every enthusiast, be it cameras, or guns, or model trains..Is that they like to Disuss the object of their interest, they like to debate it, and they like to brag about what they have, in a way that doesnt make it look like they are bragging..And you can replace "they" with "we"..chuckles

really...all of us KNOW that a .25, or a .32 can kill you...we KNOW that there is no magic bullet thats always effective...and we all know that ANYTHING can be proven with the right slant on statistics...but we enjoy talking about our passions, we enjoy the Glock vs. 1911 debate, and we all know that the debates will never be solved...

Its not so much de-sensitization, as it is just wanting to gather with our feloows and talk about things that interest us...wouldnt be that exciting if each post of "is a .357 better than a .45" was answered with everyone saying "It just depends on a lot of variables that are beyond our control, so really , that question can't be answered and if it is, it can't be proven"

 

[Dulvarian]

I was always of the school of carry the biggest thing you can conceal and are proficient with.

While I have shot a .50 DE before, I would not want to pull that out to shoot an immediate threat that invokes fear of substantial harm or death. For me, I can't think of anywhere I could comfortably carry it. I can't imagine the draw time compared to something smaller. While I am sure that it would be intimidating, I will settle for something of the .45 persuasion.

I am extremely proficient with my own guns.

+1 to 481: Amateurs argue equipment; professionals emphasize training.

I think being desensitized would be still being able to talk in your normal voice while your girlfriends father puts the barrel of a nickel plated 1911 about two inches from your forehead. Yes, if the lighting is right, you can see a hollow point loaded in the chamber of a 1911 looking down the barrel. Lol, and for the record, that memory is so clearly ingrained in my mind... part of the reason I chose a .45. I have looked down the business end of one before. It looks like you can put your hand inside the barrel when you vision pinpoints in and you lose visual perspective.

 

[easyg]

I can only see a few reasons to go with a small caliber (.380 or smaller):

1) Those are the largest calibers that you are proficient with.
Maybe due to age, weak hands, medical condition, physical limitations, recoil sensitivity, noise sensitivity, etc....but for whatever reason you just can't accurately and quickly shoot 9mm or larger.

or

2) You just want a tiny gun that doesn't take up too much room in your pocket, or purse.

 

[bigfatdave]

1) Those are the largest calibers that you are proficient with.

Little bitty guns are HARDER to shoot well, not easier.

Now, a duty-size gun in .32acp would be an easy one, I think some Bullseye shooters have large guns in .32 for the "centerfire" category, but mouseguns are advanced weapons, not beginner's guns.

2) You just want a tiny gun that doesn't take up too much room in your pocket, or purse.

This is a concern for the "I only carry once in a while" crowd, or those desiring extreme deep concealment for whatever reason. Once you start buying quality gear and dressing around the weapon it becomes much less of a concern.

BUT ... for some reason the endless search for a "light, concealable, flat, big-bore, inexpensive, accurate, knockdown power having, easy for my wife to shoot, not too loud, scary-looking, light-mounting, laser-gripped, easy-to-maintain" gun continues, for the purposes of "carrying when I go to a bad neighborhood". It goes along with the "Glock vs .45" debate and the caliber wars, among people who are trying to solve their software issues by buying hardware.

Amateurs argue equipment; professionals emphasize training.

Damn right, the caliber wars are a dead giveaway of amateurs.

 

[makarovnik]

I know I've been desensitized.

 

[cougar1717]

Yes, we have been desensitized in several ways.
1) There are so many caliber choices which are very good but leads to incessant comparison over differences in the minutiae.
2) Our consumer mentality in America that the equipment makes the man.
3) It used to be that if you liked a product, you used it and that was it. Someone had to ask your opinion before we gave it. Now, we feel the need to impress our opinions on others. Pride has increased so that if you deviate from someone's opinion, you are wrong. The internet has only magnified that.
4) The breakdown of the family has meant that many children do/did not receive any approval. We all need someone to say that they are proud of us. As adults, to gain the approval of others, some of our thinking is twisted. We think, "If I only had ____, then they will like/be proud of/respect me." A man's life does not consist of the abundance of his possessions.
5) We are intent on justifying that what we have is "best".
6) If what we have cannot be the "best", then we rationalize that what we have is "best" for the price.
7) We are not content with what we have. But contentment with Godliness is great gain.