Hollowpoints future in America

[Deus Machina]

I bought half a ton at $1.50 and conned a trucker buddy into picking it up for me.

Know how you unload 1,000 lbs of lead without a lift?

One ingot at a time.
Sam Cade is offline Report Post Quick reply to this message

You're not thinking right there, partner. The proper way to unload a thousand pounds of raw material is with a quick reverse into the driveway and a good set of brakes.

 

[memphisjim]

Didn't the govt once snatch up gold too?

 

[230RN]

I guess I'd get back into. 45 acp big-time if I lived in NJ (perish the thought!).


That triggered the old saw about "a 9 may fail to expand, but a .45 will never shrink."

I resisted, but I couldn't help throwing that out there. I'm weak. Weak as water.

I haven't cast bullets since I gave up shooting 50 rd/day practicing for Metallic Silhouette shooting, and I never had any problem finding wheelweights, lead ones, but my son is now casting and it's kind of a pain in the patootie separating out the zinc ones.

Hey, ladies and gentlemen, the "protectionist" philosophy embedded in the statists' mentalities goes far deeper then those awful HP bullets. They'd ultimately want to ban anything the least bit hairy-a$$ed --or even noisy or smelly.

Or even out of lockstep.

That's what they call "ordered liberty."

Terry, 230RN

 

[onfloat]

scuba weights are still made of lead.

 

[FROGO207]

The government cant stop illegal firearms use/ownership so how are they going to stop one from obtaining a few measly hollow points from the usual sources.:banghead:

 

[ironhead7544]

I remember on President who wanted to ban import of military ammo because it was more deadly than sporting ammo.

 

[41]

In my state (and I would assume the majority of the others) hollow points or other expanding bullets are required to hunt deer and other big game animals, so I don't see them banning them any time soon.

 

[Sam1911]

hollow points or other expanding bullets are required to hunt deer and other big game animals, so I don't see them banning them any time soon.

And even dear old, besotted NJ expressly ALLOWS them for hunting.

 

[bigfatdave]

That triggered the old saw about "a 9 may fail to expand, but a .45 will never shrink."

And now I have to point out the vastly different wound tracks demonstrated by expanding and non-expanding ammo.

Sure the .45 doesn't shrink, but it isn't a drillbit. The hole can and does simply close up after it passes through, leaving a more stab-type wound. An expanding round, on the other hand, tears things up on the way through.

Cartridge consisted of 5.0gr of AA#2 with CCISPP. COAL was 1.250". Shot impacted the block at 827 ± 0.500 ft/sec, penetrated 16.0 ± 0.031" of gelatin and through ~10" of polyester-filled bullet arresting box. Projectile was not recovered, but appearance of wound track illustrates that minimal expansion took place.

http://www.brassfetcher.com/45acpswc.html
See pic to note very little "mess" in the track.

Here's another test, with a common and fairly inexpensive duty load in 9x19:

Shot 1 - Impacted at 1215 ft/sec, penetrated to 14.3" and was recovered at 0.502" average diameter.
Shot 2 - Impacted at 1196 ft/sec, penetrated to 14.4" and was recovered at 0.509" average diameter.
Shot 3 - Impacted at 1218 ft/sec, penetrated to 14.3" and was recovered at 0.514" average diameter.
Shot 4 - Impacted at 1216 ft/sec, penetrated to 14.4" and was recovered at 0.494" average diameter.
Shot 5 - Impacted at 1216 ft/sec, penetrated to 14.4" and was recovered at 0.503" average diameter.

See pic for "mess" in wound track
http://www.brassfetcher.com/9x19mm Luger 124gr +P Gold Dot (denim).html
Oh, and that's after four layers of denim
That happens to be my top choice for 9x19 carry ammo ... testing and the fact that I can get it in 50x boxes at the nearest gun show mean that I have enough to load up every non-antique 9mm magazine in the house (wait, maybe not all the sub2000 magazines) ... OR enough to last for a decade or two if I jealously hoarded them after some nonsense "ban"

 

[hermannr]

There is a new set proposed rules for the Ross Lake National Recreational Area, an area that Congress specifically allowed hunting in when it was created back in the 1968. (I have hunted in it)

By Law, Washington State Dept of Fish and Wildlife are supposed to be the ones controlling the hunting in the RLNRA, but it looks like the Dept of the Interior is going to try impose their will here anyway.

I have a copy of the three "alterative proposals"; all three proposals have a "no lead" restriction on hunting ammo in the RA. I guess there will be a lot of expensive Barnes ammo shot up there following the selection of one of those proposals.

 

[Owen Sparks]

This is not really about lead. It is about gun control As soon as some cheap and reliable substitute for lead comes on the market the focus of federal legislation will shift towards restricting some other aspect or componant of firearms.

 

[Standing Wolf]

How can the government ban one of the 82 basic elements?

With yet another moronic law. It's working for light bulbs, isn't it?

 

[230RN]

Owen Sparks' dicta:

This is not really about lead. It is about gun control As soon as some cheap and reliable substitute for lead comes on the market the focus of federal legislation will shift towards restricting some other aspect or componant of firearms.

Bing-Freakin'-O.

I guess there are some experiments with powdered tungsten (it's pretty dense) sintered with other powders (some metal, some plastic) to establish a sub for lead which would be dense enough for sectional density, but still soft enough to expand. Don't know much about that except for my previous sentence.

Disunirregardless, if such becomes commercially viable (I wonder if there's enough tungsten around to satisfy a bullet market), Owen Sparks's dicta, cited above, will take effect.

[Off-topic Aside]

All in all, I have long felt that the EPA's power, even when delegated to the States, is the greatest impediment to progress and prosperity this country has ever seen. It's certainly a good idea to conserve and use "Good Stewardhip" per the Good Book, but so much "Environmentalism" is like poking a kid's party balloon; you push in here and it comes out there.

And that, too, conforms with Owen Sparks's dicta, cited above.

[/Off-topic Aside]

Terry, 230RN

PS: Due credit must be given to Standing Wolf for pointing out the "control" aspects of so much gun legislation, where he touted it even on the old, now-defunct packing-dot-org website years ago.

 

[Panzercat]

In other news...

Luckily, my minions are stocking up.

 

[mortablunt]

The PRNJ banned HP (and maybe SP). Still, if you look at enough stuff, you will see that the government has tried to ban just about everything. Hell, even Caffeine was almost put onto the list of substances for the Harison Tax Act (that would have made it an illegal drug like Heroin).

 

[Sam1911]

The PRNJ banned HP (and maybe SP).

Good grief. NO they DIDN'T.

That's a common misconception and gross overstatement of the facts which we should try to avoid repeating.

Read the information posted above!

 

[mrbro]

Minions?

Honey, can I get some minions too?, Panzercat has some and they're really cool. I'll feed them and ...

 

[wow6599]

Anyone with a drill and the right bit can make a HP bullet...........

 

[ShaneP]

Hollow points actually penerate less than FMJ's. in 124gr 9mm for example FMJ will pass through a 23 inch where as hollow points usually around 13-15" of ballistic gel. Hollow points disapate there energy much faster than FMJ. In my eyes it makes more sense less over peneration with Hollow points and in an urban setting that is good

 

[Apocalypse-Now]

i just heard the internet will be banned by al gore. apparently he's tired of not receiving royalties for his invention.

 

[azmjs]

in a word, "bright"

 

[vaupet]

I don't know of any country in central Europe that allowes HP ammo for use in handguns.
You can own and use them in long guns for hunting purposes. (can't use then for hunting two legged species though )

Of course you can own some illegally, but if caught, all your "gunrights" will be revoked for "eternity" and al your firearms will be impounded.

 

[SeekHer]

Sam1911 -- All that states is that it's legal for you to possess, in your home, HP ammo, not that your guns can be loaded with it for P/HD purposes.

Same as it's legal in many states to own a switchblade and/or brass knuckles but you can't carry it/them on your person.

They allow them for hunting as it's a more humane way to kill an animal but you mustn't do that to a person--just like the Hague Convention banned Dum-Dum bullets for FMJ so more wounding and less deaths would occur.

There were a couple of test cases that the NRA, RKBA and others went to court over in NJ were they singled out the people because they used HP ammo for HD...Massad Ayoob had an article about it a little while ago--I'll try to find and post it.

How can the government ban one of the 82 basic elements?

The government has banned materials many times--it was illegal to own gold bars--uranium and Cuban cigars still are, asbestos, lead for plumbing and migratory bird hunting--steel shot...California has outright banned ALL lead from certain portions of the state--Condor nesting areas--bullets, fishing weights, jigs heads etc.

 

[Ole Coot]

Find a telephone cable splicer. Still have lead sheaths even if the company say they don't. It's pure lead and I got a couple of tons of it, stopped casting and gave it away to a few friends. This is about par today for the utopia that isn't here. I don't know how I survived all these years depending on myself to stay safe and reasonably healthy without "Big Brother" looking out for me.

 

[jonmerritt]

This just in "The government bans its self" We can only hope.