Home defense long gun - which and why

[boerseun]

I voted Shotgun - even though I don't use mine for HD - barrel is too (it's a hunting shotgun with a 28" pipe).
To the folks that said "The whole racking of a shotgun to scare the BG's off with the sound is BS"
Ever been on the receiving end of that sound? I have, and I assure you, I reconsidered my actions!

 

[wraith56]

Don't know if someone already said this but...

use the one you can handle the best.
The one you shoot the most.
The one that automatically lines up on your target by reflex.

If you don't know which one that is, spend more time shooting.

 

[mister_wilburn]

The wonderful pump action sound...

Check out the ballistic gelatin comparison of calibers and gauges. The 12 ga. has an awesome amount of knockdown power at ranges up to 50 yards, and tears apart gelatin (or flesh), not a small hole that goes deep and expands, gaping hole that separates the gelatin into multiple pieces. I dont know about you, but my yard isn't so big, 50 yards is in someone elses house. The realistic confrontation range (for me) is much much shorter, more like 10 or 15 yards. And in that range, the 12 gauge shines. 00 buck in a plain ole remington 870 is my choice for HD, hands down.

 

[AStone]

I own an 870, not a 500.
(See user name.)

But I voted for the 12 anyway.

12 gauge: 63.64%

It's light years ahead of the next category
(AR at 17%.)

This is no contest.

63 out of 100 gun owners agree:

12 rules for HD.

 

[Rifleman 173]

For close range "social events" in the dead of night: a 12 gauge shotgun backed up by a .45 pistol backed up by a sheath knife. My kit is a Remington 870 pump with a Sig Sauer P-220 with a tanto type sheath knife with an 8" blade.

For distances out beyond 15 yards or so: a good carbine type shoulder-mounted firearm backed up by a .45 pistol backed up by a sheath knife. For this action I have a .44 magnum lever action Marlin saddle carbine or a Bushmaster M-4 type .223 carbine backed up by my P-220 pistol and sheath knife.

Your friend should practice frequently with his choice of firearms and be able to transition smoothly from one firearm to another and back again. In other words, he should shoot his shotgun and then draw his pistol and then practice going back to his shotgun. He should document his training he gets/does and might even consider videotaping some of what he does and filing it away. If something does happen, he should know which attorney he is able to call in the middle of the night and he should let the attorney know about the documentation/videotapes that are on file so that the attorney can use them as needed or not.

Have a plan and then have a back-up plan just to be safe.

 

[Bitswap]

Shotgun with the shortest barrel you can put on it (legally) with 00 buckshot and surefire flashlight. Racking a round will get everyone's attention and immedatly know what it is, and when it hits, they'll be dead. Just make sure what your shooting at with the surefire. Neighbor friendly as far as penetration goes.

Some alternate bird shot and buck, no time to be nice here, I say all buck. Dead people can't sue. Anything worth shooting once, is worth shooting twice.

Add a three point sling and take a HD shotgun class and your set. Use a standard stock.

Yes, there was a reason why the good guy in 'Terminator 1' choose a shotgun.

This is for inside the house. For outside it's another story. For this I'd look at a 223 with an eotech. Farther out? Go 308.

Pistols are good for ccw and backup.

Why a shotgun? Well in most shootouts, usually the first round misses for pistols (don't bank on this). You just don't know how you'll react when faced with that kind of stressful situation. You may limp-wrist a semiautomatic and now your screwed. How many shots were fired at the OK Corral? and how many hit? Spot on the surefire and chances are you'll get a hit the first time plus blinding the bg.

There is another consideration here that is VERY important. Say you do kill someone and the county proscuter decides to go after you. The more 'generic' your gun, the better. He will paint you as a right-winged-conseritive-foaming-at-the-mouth-to-kill-anarchist if you do ANYTHING special to the gun. Trigger Job? Why? Special sights? Why? The surefire light can be easily explained away as to identify a target and not raise eyebrows. A super-Ar-15 or trick 1911 will put you in a bad light. Just the way juries are.

One last item. When you shoot something living, you don't notice the recoil, till after. Recommend going to a trap or skeet range and trying out a 12 guage then a 20 guage. 12 is recommended, but if more conforatble with the 20, go for it. 20 may be better for smaller human frames.

Now, which shotgun to get? The 870 is reliable and is the standard. Get one that will hold as many 2.75" rounds 'stock' as possible with the shortest barrel. Next choice would be the Mossberg 500. These are sometimes sold with two barrels, one for hd one for hunting. I have both. The 870 appears to be better made. I'd stay away from semiautos for hd. Oh, and if you do get one, get one that looks like a hunting shotgun with a wood stock... again the juries perception.

You need to keep in mind that the guy in your house may not mean you any harm. He could be your son coming home from college and didn't call or a drunk that mistakenly wandered into your house. There must be a threat and you need to identify and assess before you pull the trigger.

 

[AStone]

12 rules for HD.

That was me on June 2.

What a difference two months can make.

Now, don't get me wrong.
12 gauge still "rules" for HD.
Of that, I have little doubt.

But for me, the picture has changed.
I'm selling my 870 tomorrow.
(New owner is coming after it.)

It's a great, great gun. I've enjoyed owning it.
I came to THR to learn which 870 to buy,
bought it, learned from it, and enjoyed it.

But now, I've changed my mind.

I've decided, after much reflection and research,
that I'm just not a shotgun kind of guy.

I'm a rifle guy.

So, I'm giving up the 870 in favor of a carbine,
that will be mostly a camp gun, a walk around gun.

But it'll do nicely for HD if I need it.

Which one? 1894C in .357 mag,
to match the mod 65 in the same cal.

Full story can be be found elsewhere.

My '94C is on the way ...

 

[briansp82593]

im going to have to go with the SLP 12 ga with a pattern of buck-slug-buck-slug... too bad i dont have one, but i do have a mossberg 500 with one of those flamethrower shells nearby for a runner, and for up close and personal business i would say my G35

 

[telomerase]

To summarize:

1. Shotguns are longer and clumsier than 16" barrel rifles. Or even some 18" barrel rifles.
2. Follow-up shots are slower from a shotgun.
3. Buckshot overpenetrates sheetrock more than light-bullet or frangible rifle rounds. (Slugs stop [unarmored] people better than buck.. but you'd better live in Montana to use them!)
4. If your house is big enough that the shot spreads enough to matter... then some of the buck will miss the intruder and go sailing into the neighborhood.
5. Buckshot won't penetrate even light body armor.
6. A 30-rd mag holds a lot more energy than a 6-round tube.
7. Pump shotguns are less reliable than many rifles (not even counting short-stroking).
8. If you have to shoot around a family member, you sure don't want to use a buck load out of a cylinder bore .
9. You can't really stop a Terminator with a shotgun (you need a Barrett .50, but any rifle would penetrate better than a Foster slug)

All that said...

use the one you can handle the best.
The one you shoot the most.
The one that automatically lines up on your target by reflex.

Hard to argue with that. Use whatever you won't forget to take the safety off of...

 

[Stevie-Ray]

CAR-15. Because I've got one and not a shotgun. For me, it's handguns mostly. But I do keep a few AR mags loaded.

 

[Rexster]

I saw at least one post that mentioned short-stroking pump shotguns; that is indeed a problem I have seen in fellow police officers at shooting classes and qual lines. I have never short-stroked a shotgun, probably because I trained myself to SLAM the forearm fully to the rearmost position, and then SLAM it forward, from the very beginning. I guess some guys want to speed things up to much, or perhaps they are trying to baby the gun, to treat it gently.

 

[Dannavyret]

I like to keep it simple, a Remington 30 sport rifle with a Bulvar scope.

 

[Dannavyret]

5. Buckshot won't penetrate even light body armor.

When's the last time you ever seen a home robbery perp wearing body armor?

 

[Cocked & Locked]

870 Police Magnum (20" Imp. Cyl.) works for me...



Therfore, I voted for the shotgun

 

[indie]

dont have one yet, But after much deliberation i have decided that i would feel more confident in defending my family all around with a semi auto rifle than a shotgun.

so, it will be a Saiga 7.62x39 for me for multi purpose. Vicious Dogs, Rioting and Looters, home invasions, and plinking/practice

why the choice?

1. Shotgun pattern..as other have mentioned. I am concerned about a situation where a family member could be in the line of fire. Imagine a bad guy has a hold of your child, and you have a shotgun loaded with buckshot. I'd rather risk overpenetration than peppering my child with buckshot. In buying a long gun, precision is possibly the main factor. I want to hit my target with as much precision as possible, not just send a fist full of projectiles hurling in its direction.

2. Recoil. My wife should be able to handle it as well.

3. Quick follow up shots.

4. Capacity and quick reloads. I know its unlikely to need to reload in the typical situation, but if you're prepared, you're prepared for the atypical situations as well.

5. Cost of Ammo. I can get a whole lot more practice with a rifle defensive load than a shotgun defensive load.

6. the saiga with the 16 inch barrel and skeleton stock is easier to wield than a HD shotgun IMO, and its not uncontrollable with a pistol grip type configuration.

 

[Landlocked Pirate]

My Mossberg 12 ga. 20" 8-shot Model 500 is my favorite, but my bedside long gun is a Remington 870 Express with an 18" barrel and standard magazine because it's much handier.

 

[telomerase]

When's the last time you ever seen a home robbery perp wearing body armor?

According to the FBI, criminals use body armor "routinely".

Of course the FBI has been known to fib a bit in the interest of higher budgets . The heavily armored bank robbers that the crime shows love to show over and over are still the exception.

Still, you see surplus kevlar vests at gun shows for $100; sooner or later even Joe Dirtbag is going to notice. The point here is that high velocity bullets can give you lower overpenetration on soft materials and better penetration on armor, the best of both worlds.

BTW the poll is missing two important categories: better-quality AKs, and lever carbines.

 

[AStone]

BTW the poll is missing two important categories: better-quality AKs, and lever carbines.

Yep.

But I've changed my vote to lever carbine, anyway. (See #108.)

 

[indie]

telo you nailed a couple more considerations for my choice. The quality and rugged extreme condition reliability of the saiga rifle. And the ability to penetrate body armor.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

8. If you have to shoot around a family member, you sure don't want to use a buck load out of a cylinder bore .

Actually with the caveat that you:

1)Pattern the shotgun at different ranges with the defense ammunition you plan to use
2) Use a modern shotgun loading such as the Hornady TAP or Remington Reduced Recoil load

Then there are several shotguns I would feel quite comfortable making that shot with at household distances. Like anything else though, the bangstick does you no good if you don't also invest in the training. A .22LR that you use and know may well be better than the 12ga Wilson Vang-comped tactical shotgun that you have never fired.

 

[SecondAmend]

This is "Mercy". She watches over us at night.

870 Express Magnum, 18.5", 6+1