crofrog
Member
With some of the post here, you have to wonder who's side your on. The ????bird got his, no good guys got hurt. Make another mark in the CCW holders collective gun belt.
Hotel Clerk Shoots Robber (video)
- Thread starter Bartholomew Roberts
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I agree. This is all happening pretty fast and once I was forced to shoot I think I'd be very disinclined to immediately cease fire just because the guy headed for cover. The kicker for me would be whether or not he dropped his gun in the scramble or retained it.
...but, after the draw, things happened SO fast, I doubt you'd have any time to do anything but react.
Kudos to the clerk for his act while slowly unholstering his gun. His stance appeared natural leaning over the shoulder of his coworker and him using only one hand to help with the money seemed natural.
Things would likely have turned ugly if he had pulled out the gun while sitting.
Things would likely turned ugly if his coworker had reacted in a way he didn't anticipate.
Absolutely no respect for the woman with the baby. I don't care of fat or immobile you are or how unlikely it is that you can get get back on your feet without help... when something like this happens, you DROP and shield your kid.
To be a curious spectator to an ongoing shooting happening 2-3 feet away from you while you are holding a baby..... I'm speechless.
At least, that's what it looks like. My computer at work doesn't play video that well.
Things would likely have turned ugly if he had pulled out the gun while sitting.
Things would likely turned ugly if his coworker had reacted in a way he didn't anticipate.
Absolutely no respect for the woman with the baby. I don't care of fat or immobile you are or how unlikely it is that you can get get back on your feet without help... when something like this happens, you DROP and shield your kid.
To be a curious spectator to an ongoing shooting happening 2-3 feet away from you while you are holding a baby..... I'm speechless.
At least, that's what it looks like. My computer at work doesn't play video that well.
U.S.SFC_RET
Member
Retreating or not the thug could have returned fire. IMHO Clerk is in the clear.
gunsmith
member
the good guy was quick
and very clever, he waited untill he had a clear shot and thank God he kept on shooting because the skell probably would have killed the witnesses, and by shooting three times (and hitting the target) in a matter of seconds he kept on shooting untill the threat was stopped
which is what your supposed to do...also if he had only shot once the skell may have shot the bystanders
and very clever, he waited untill he had a clear shot and thank God he kept on shooting because the skell probably would have killed the witnesses, and by shooting three times (and hitting the target) in a matter of seconds he kept on shooting untill the threat was stopped
which is what your supposed to do...also if he had only shot once the skell may have shot the bystanders
Rickstir
Member
For all of those who don't carry with one in the pipe, watch this carefully. If you had a semi-auto, could you have jacked one in? I doubt it. Good shoot IMHO.
1 old 0311
member
This happened in Colombus Ohio. Isn't that the city that banned ALL magazines over 10 rounds? I think this is why the NRA cancled their Convention there a few years ago. Surprised they didn't charge the clerk.
Kevin
Kevin
It was a mistake IMO to engage the target. Too many bystanders in close proximity.
I could be wrong, but it looks like the BG got one shot off before the GG could fire. It's hard to tell with no audio.
It looks like the BG fired because he saw the GG's gun.
Had that first shot from the BG struck that mother or child or the other clerk...no one here would be praising the GG. And the clerk would have very likely been charged.
He got very lucky IMO.
With that said...am I glad the BG was shot? Absolutely.
Did the GG diplay sound tactics while drawing his weapon and after his weapon was drawn? Absolutely.
But in that particular case, I think it was just too risky to draw with a mother and child and one bystander in very close proximity.
Had it just been the GG and BG there or even the GG, his co-worker and the BG...I would be OK with it. But the mother and child there made me think otherwise.
I could be wrong, but it looks like the BG got one shot off before the GG could fire. It's hard to tell with no audio.
It looks like the BG fired because he saw the GG's gun.
Had that first shot from the BG struck that mother or child or the other clerk...no one here would be praising the GG. And the clerk would have very likely been charged.
He got very lucky IMO.
With that said...am I glad the BG was shot? Absolutely.
Did the GG diplay sound tactics while drawing his weapon and after his weapon was drawn? Absolutely.
But in that particular case, I think it was just too risky to draw with a mother and child and one bystander in very close proximity.
Had it just been the GG and BG there or even the GG, his co-worker and the BG...I would be OK with it. But the mother and child there made me think otherwise.
what42
Member
I'd recommend you go and read the post from the guy in the video over at ar15.com. It's about half way down the page. He explains the situation pretty well and easily convinced me that it was a good shoot.
According to him (and the video), the robber never got a shot off. The guy behind the counter pulled his gun and was in the middle of yelling for the robber to drop his weapon when the robber raised his gun. This was when you saw everyone duck and then the good guy popped back up and started firing.
The robber made his choice when he decided to attempt to rob the hotel and further made his choice when he pointed a gun at the innocdent people. I say he got what he chose and what he deserved.
According to him (and the video), the robber never got a shot off. The guy behind the counter pulled his gun and was in the middle of yelling for the robber to drop his weapon when the robber raised his gun. This was when you saw everyone duck and then the good guy popped back up and started firing.
The robber made his choice when he decided to attempt to rob the hotel and further made his choice when he pointed a gun at the innocdent people. I say he got what he chose and what he deserved.
What42...thanks for the correction. I was'nt sure if the BG got a shot off or not.
Nonetheless, I feel the clerk should have kept his weapon holstered. The BG only became aggressive after he was confronted by the clerk. Had the clerks simpy handed the money over...I think it would have been safer for all involved (namely the mother and child).
Obviously, we'll never know how the situation would have unfolded had the BG not been confronted. There's always the possibility of him taking hostages or even worse...but chances are, once he got the money he would have left and no shots would have been fired.
I agree, the would-be robber got what he deserved. But there was just too high of a risk of bystanders being injured for me to justify the clerk's actions.
Nonetheless, I feel the clerk should have kept his weapon holstered. The BG only became aggressive after he was confronted by the clerk. Had the clerks simpy handed the money over...I think it would have been safer for all involved (namely the mother and child).
Obviously, we'll never know how the situation would have unfolded had the BG not been confronted. There's always the possibility of him taking hostages or even worse...but chances are, once he got the money he would have left and no shots would have been fired.
I agree, the would-be robber got what he deserved. But there was just too high of a risk of bystanders being injured for me to justify the clerk's actions.
Robbing someone with a firearm qualifies as pretty aggressive in my book.
IMO, relying on the goodwill of violent criminals is not wise.
The clerk had an opportunity to end the situation and he did so with alacrity. No one was hurt which may or may not have been the outcome had they simply waited to see if the gunman was going to be a "good criminal" or a "bad criminal".
dasmi
Member
Excellent work.
dasmi
Member
Are you out of your mind?
Armed robbery isn't agression?
Dasmi...from what I saw in the video...the BG was standing there, gun by his side, waiting for the money until he was confronted. Then he raised his weapon.
If you'd like to split hairs...he was originally aggressive...and then became extremely aggressive after he was confronted.
Nonetheless...it was tough call to make. I'm definitely not going to fault the clerk. He felt the need to fire. He was there, we were'nt. He had to make his decision very quickly. It was a difficult situation...it's pretty easy to sit here and pick the video apart but, and second guess. Much much easier than actually having to face it first hand.
Thankfully for all those involved it turned out nearly perfect.
Perfect would have been the BG leaving in a bag.
If you'd like to split hairs...he was originally aggressive...and then became extremely aggressive after he was confronted.
Nonetheless...it was tough call to make. I'm definitely not going to fault the clerk. He felt the need to fire. He was there, we were'nt. He had to make his decision very quickly. It was a difficult situation...it's pretty easy to sit here and pick the video apart but, and second guess. Much much easier than actually having to face it first hand.
Thankfully for all those involved it turned out nearly perfect.
Perfect would have been the BG leaving in a bag.
sturmruger
Member
It looks like a good shoot to me. While it sucks that the woman and her daughter were sitting there I think taking the bg out was the correct reaction.
crofrog
Member
It's not worth the time, some people here just don't have the proper mindset.
High Planes Drifter
Member
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Outstanding job. The only thing that would have made it better is if th ebg would have left in a bag. Now he will just heal, then go back out and do it again tougher, and possibly more dangerous.
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
Tough situation. Any time you comply with a robber, you are betting on the humanity of a person who is threatening to kill you over money. I can definitely imagine situations where I would prefer to take the more immediate risk of a gunfight if I were presented a good opportunity like this clerk was, rather than miss the opportunity and hope things do not get worse.
To play the contrarian, by shooting in this situation the shooter was banking the lives of three people on the marksmanship of the robber. One errant round and your looking at either a dead woman or a dead child. I wouldnt want to deal with the situation, there isnt a good way out of it. Things did work out OK in the end, but it was near thing either way.
There's always the possibility...Chances are...
If you live your life by the odds of something occuring, you need not carry a gun with more than 3.5 rounds in it. Hell, you need not carry a gun at all, since chances are you'll never need to use it.
The shooter is "RooftopVoter" and he posts over on www.gunsnet.net .
You can search more details on his story up there. The robber had a .45 colt revolver. IIRC (check his posts on Gunsnet) RooftopVoter was carrying a compact Glock .40 loaded with Golden Sabers. He shot the perp four times, and he fell in the doorway out of sight of the camera.
The story is getting attention on all the gun boards now, because the perp's trial ended when he plead guilty and took a deal from the DA. And he can now go into specifics of what happened. RooftopVoter was not charged, and said all his experiences with the DA's and the Police were very positive. They were very happy he took him out. He received his gun back in good condition once the trial ended, the only reason they kept it was that it was evidence against the perp in his trial.
Aside from working at the hotel where the attempted robbery took place, he is also a CCW instructor in his state.
The woman with the child was not in his immediate line of fire, according to him, they were at least one yard to the side, the angle of the security camera just makes it look like she was in the way. Also, range safety/etiquette is one thing, when it's your life, you take the shot you have. She was very thankful.
Since then, that woman has actually contacted RooftopVoter about CCW training and getting her own permit!
Not shabby...
Rooftop Voter attended the trial of the armed robber as he was to be called as a witness. (never took the stand because of the plea deal...) He wore a Glock shirt to court. (Now that takes some stones... LOL!) He didn't know it at the time, but he was sitting just a few feet away from the robber's family. He hadn't been identified yet, but when the DA mentioned something like: "...And when one of the victims working the counter, Mr. RooftopVoter, drew his legally carried Glock .40 handgun and fired four times..." He could hear the entire family turn, and he could feel their eyes on him. He didn't mention the perp's family being overtly hostile though. I get the sense they were mostly in shock the perp did it in the first place.
The saddest thing is that the perp/robber had no priors. He was actually a college student at the time. He's going to be in his mid-thirties when he gets out of prison.
You can search more details on his story up there. The robber had a .45 colt revolver. IIRC (check his posts on Gunsnet) RooftopVoter was carrying a compact Glock .40 loaded with Golden Sabers. He shot the perp four times, and he fell in the doorway out of sight of the camera.
The story is getting attention on all the gun boards now, because the perp's trial ended when he plead guilty and took a deal from the DA. And he can now go into specifics of what happened. RooftopVoter was not charged, and said all his experiences with the DA's and the Police were very positive. They were very happy he took him out. He received his gun back in good condition once the trial ended, the only reason they kept it was that it was evidence against the perp in his trial.
Aside from working at the hotel where the attempted robbery took place, he is also a CCW instructor in his state.
The woman with the child was not in his immediate line of fire, according to him, they were at least one yard to the side, the angle of the security camera just makes it look like she was in the way. Also, range safety/etiquette is one thing, when it's your life, you take the shot you have. She was very thankful.
Since then, that woman has actually contacted RooftopVoter about CCW training and getting her own permit!
Not shabby...
Rooftop Voter attended the trial of the armed robber as he was to be called as a witness. (never took the stand because of the plea deal...) He wore a Glock shirt to court. (Now that takes some stones... LOL!) He didn't know it at the time, but he was sitting just a few feet away from the robber's family. He hadn't been identified yet, but when the DA mentioned something like: "...And when one of the victims working the counter, Mr. RooftopVoter, drew his legally carried Glock .40 handgun and fired four times..." He could hear the entire family turn, and he could feel their eyes on him. He didn't mention the perp's family being overtly hostile though. I get the sense they were mostly in shock the perp did it in the first place.
The saddest thing is that the perp/robber had no priors. He was actually a college student at the time. He's going to be in his mid-thirties when he gets out of prison.
KriegHund
Member
Im glad it all worked out.
YES.
YES.
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