I pledge allegiance...

[Grandpa Shooter]

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands,one Nation under God with liberty and justice for all.


Back when I was growing up we said this every day before the start of the session. We stood straight, put our hands over our hearts, and said it together in unison with real feeling and reverance. While I was eating lunch yesterday I saw the start of whatever race was on. Trisha Yearwood sang the National Anthem.

I don't go to public gatherings much and don't watch TV (the TV was on at the restaurant) so I rarely see people in that kind of setting. I was shocked to see people chatting, ignoring the National Anthem, still had their hats on and saw no one putting their hand over their heart. To my eyes they were acting as though paying tribute to our country was a major inconvenience.

It struck me that maybe that is why so many of us can't understand that the anti gun people are winning. If that many people have no respect for the flag or our country, if they can't stand still for 3 minutes out of respect for the very essence of our nation, then I guess we can't expect them to understand that the 2nd amendment is just as important. When did we get to where such blatant disregard is the norm?

No wonder we are losing battle by battle.

 

[Eric F]

Great thought. Welcome to the world of Meand for most folks the use of the word Iamerica has for several reasons turned into a country of screw your neighbor and take for your self. GREED sir the number 1 cause of it all. Most folks only help if they get some sort of gain from it. And when I say gain I mean some sort of financial gain either right away or down the road a bit.

I agree and for the all american sport of nascar I would have thought diffrent but just last night I went to a local roller derby event and when the National Anthem got played there the entire crown of about 200 was quiet. Kinda makes you wonder.

 

[pdowg881]

I haven't seen that happen. Last tim eI was at a hockey game the lone kid with his hat still on was hollered at by a few people to remove it. I don't think he left it on purposely though.

 

[spwenger]

A Little History

Francis Bellamy (1855 - 1931), a Baptist minister, wrote the original Pledge in August 1892. He was a Christian Socialist. In his Pledge, he is expressing the ideas of his first cousin, Edward Bellamy, author of the American socialist utopian novels, Looking Backward (1888) and Equality (1897)...

His original Pledge read as follows: 'I pledge allegiance to my Flag and (to*) the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.' He considered placing the word, 'equality,' in his Pledge, but knew that the state superintendents of education on his committee were against equality for women and African Americans. [ * 'to' added in October, 1892. ]...

What follows is Bellamy's own account of some of the thoughts that went through his mind in August, 1892, as he picked the words of his Pledge:

"It began as an intensive communing with salient points of our national history, from the Declaration of Independence onwards; with the makings of the Constitution...with the meaning of the Civil War; with the aspiration of the people...

"The true reason for allegiance to the Flag is the 'republic for which it stands.' ...And what does that vast thing, the Republic mean? It is the concise political word for the Nation - the One Nation which the Civil War was fought to prove. To make that One Nation idea clear, we must specify that it is indivisible, as Webster and Lincoln used to repeat in their great speeches. And its future?

"Just here arose the temptation of the historic slogan of the French Revolution which meant so much to Jefferson and his friends, 'Liberty, equality, fraternity.' No, that would be too fanciful, too many thousands of years off in realization. But we as a nation do stand square on the doctrine of liberty and justice for all..."

Source

There are those who believe that the original intent of the Pledge was to reinforce to the people of the states that had formed the Confederacy that they had lost the War Bewteen the States.

 

[hksw]

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands,one Nation under God, indivisible, and with liberty and justice for all.

 

[Joe Demko]

Not gun-related.

 

[Soybomb]

Actually I'm not a big fan of the pledge. I love the US, our freedoms, and what the US stands for. At the same time I don't feel as though I owe any allegiance to the government. The government is there to serve me and other US citizens. If it turns against me or does not serve my needs, I will work against it. I in no way serve it or owe it loyalty. The later addition of the religious element in no way helps endear me to it either. Over all it seems to run counter to the principles of the 2nd amendment to me in many ways.

There is a difference between patriotism and nationalism. To me the pledge crosses the line into the nationalism line and reminds me more of something people would be expected to do under some oppressive government.

 

[Kim]

I do not see governemtn mentioned in the pledge. Flag, USA, Republic, Nation,Liberty,Justice etc. ----- .gov is not there.

 

[General Geoff]

I typically recite the pre-1954 version, which is identical to the current version except that it omits "under god."

 

[QuakKillz]

THANK YOU Kim my thoughts EXACTLY

 

[Walkalong]

I remember that. It's a crying shame they think we can't still do that. Those that are offended need to just get the F*** out. Immigrants are welcome to come to America. Yes AMERICA. Love it or leave it.

If our government is out of line, it's our duty to the government to set them straight. People have forgotten that they answer to us. WE ARE the government if we do it right.

I do not see governemtn mentioned in the pledge. Flag, USA, Republic, Nation,Liberty,Justice etc. ----- .gov is not there.

Yep.

 

[Navy joe]

Actually I'm not a big fan of the pledge. I love the US, our freedoms, and what the US stands for. At the same time I don't feel as though I owe any allegiance to the government. The government is there to serve me and other US citizens. If it turns against me or does not serve my needs, I will work against it. I in no way serve it or owe it loyalty. The later addition of the religious element in no way helps endear me to it either. Over all it seems to run counter to the principles of the 2nd amendment to me in many ways.

No pledge to any gov't. Allegiance to the Republic for which it stands is allegiance to the ideal. Not a big pledge fan myself because it is usually quasi-compulsory in schools or was when I was coming up. I believe the words and say them but I don't liked forced nationalism. In the summer of 2001 I was looking for a high quality American made 13 star flag for my porch. 9/11 happened and I quit looking. I did not want to be associated with the kneejerk nationalism. This coming from a guy who always stands for the national anthem, has posted the colors numerous times in the military, has properly arranged the flag on friend's coffin, etc. I've got nothing but American pride inside of me but I see too many people who want to be nationalists without knowing why.

In closing I've taken the oath of enlistment more than a couple of times and I take that way more seriously.

Gun related? Yes, words mean not much unless we back them with hard currency.

 

[chris in va]

A lot of people don't have pride in the USA. Also many 'parents' haven't passed down respect and pride to their kids, and this is what you get.

The 'old' way of doing things is on life support, and as a result we now have to justify owning firearms.

 

[Eric F]

omits "under god."

Then you certianly do not want your money either "In GODwe trust"

THANK YOU Kim my thoughts EXACTLY

What is the problem with "under God" no religon in your life?

I remember that. It's a crying shame they think we can't still do that. Those that are offended need to just get the F*** out. Immigrants are welcome to come to America. Yes AMERICA. Love it or leave it.

A bit harsh But good point. It is the way it is "Under God", mexico and canada are right next door see how long your guns last there!

 

[General Geoff]

Eric F, I don't print our money. If I did, I wouldn't have the phrase "In God We Trust" included on any of it. Since during a pledge of allegiance, I AM, in fact, reciting it, I choose to omit said phrase which makes no sense to me. I understand why it's there, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.

 

[kfranz]

Love it or leave it.

or change it to what it ought to be. Novel idea to some...

 

[armoredman]

Mine is simpler, and less oriented to a symbol, yet a symbol which stands for ideals that I will die to preserve, nonetheless.

I pledge allegiance, to the Constitution of the United States, and to the Republic which it defines, one nation, born under God, indivisible, with liberty, justice and freedom for all.

Doesn't matter who likes it or not, I still stand and put my hand over my heart to recite the original pledge.

 

[velojym]

Eric F.
The Dollar as we know it is pretty much dead anyway. It's worth less than the Canadian dollar, and the Peso is rapidly making progress against it.

This nation was founded on a basis of religious freedom, which does not 'grant' a limited freedom only to those who practice religion. While there might be a word or two on some public buildings (which I won't protest... it just isn't that big a deal to me) and on the money, it doesn't follow that we should be required to follow any particular doctrine... or any doctrine at all.

I love America. I was born here. I don't plan to leave, no matter how much the intellectually lazy folks blather about "Love it... or gyit-out!"
However, I do NOT love the government that is destroying it from the inside, and they're using nationalist chants and propaganda as a tool for the "love it or leave it" crowd to accept whatever atrocities they push.
To make this gun related? NRA, long a bastion of Republicans (including myself, once), often crows that we should enforce all current gun laws, no matter how oppressive and unconstitutional. It seems that once something is passed, it becomes magically A-OK.

Sorry... but I lost all respect for a colored rag that represents a government that no longer represents me. They're in it for control, and most of us are marching in lockstep, cheering for "Our Team".

Pledge lovers, please read again that Francis Bellamy was a Socialist... in case you missed it. Also, google the guy. You'll love what the original gesture was, until WW2, when it was decided that a straight-arm salute was too close to the Nazi salute. Well... yeah. Same roots! National socialism was the same philosophy that brought about the pledge.

 

[General Geoff]

^^I take a bit of exception to the last bit, velojym. I don't think the flag represents the current establishment at all; I think the government, as-is, does not deserve to use our flag as representation for them (with few exceptions).

 

[Walkalong]

no matter how much the intellectually lazy folks blather about "Love it... or gyit-out!"

Nope, not intelectually lazy. I might say many are guilty of "mental masturbation" though. Lots of effort and nothing becomes of it. They run around and pat each other on the back though.

they're using nationalist chants and propaganda as a tool for the "love it or leave it" crowd to accept whatever atrocities they push

Nope. I'm a love it or leave kind of guy, obviously, but I am terribly upset at our present state of affairs.

Now where's that dang key.

 

[velojym]

No offense to those who truly believe the flag represents what this nation was founded to be. I just have a problem with what it's currently representing.
Sorry, but it's the same with people. Quite a few maintain a sort of 'brand loyalty' that is not at all reciprocated by the 'leaders' of that brand (or party).

Sometimes, there is hope, but it leads us in odd directions. For instance, between the tax pledge and his signing sweeping antigun legislation, G. Bush Sr. lost enough support that it probably cost him a second term. Unfortunately, his replacement was not only no better... but even worse.
The current front runners in the presidential election aren't really inspiring a lot of hope in me, either... but they'll still be said to represent me and the rest of the country. They also evidently didn't learn anything from Bush Sr. or from the sweeping change in the early '90s when the dems lost control of the Hill for the first time in decades.

The government that honors what our flag is *meant* to represent will be the government that governs least, and lets us live our own lives, by our own standards and means, while providing the basic services and protections specifically provided for in the Constitution. No more, no less. (well, maybe a little less... the Postal Service can go take a long walk)

 

[357WheelGun]

What is the problem with "under God" no religion in your life?

I can only speak for myself, but:

The problem with the phrase "under God" in the Pledge is that it was inserted through the efforts of the same type of people who brought us "freedom fries". Nothing but knee-jerk reactionism. It made a bunch of people feel good about themselves while accomplishing absolutely nothing at all of any value. All thunder, but no lightning. Disgraceful.

I say all of this as a Christian.

The phrase in the pledge also perpetuates the myth of America originating as a "Christian nation". Frankly, that ridiculous notion (the majority of the founding fathers were Deist as were their influences) is responsible for a lot of the division in modern American society as our own brand of religious fundamentalism comes into conflict with rational and pragmatic secular ideas.

 

[eflatminor]

I disagree with your position

I have no time for this pledge. I am an atheist...a PROUD atheist, so you can stick your idea of a omnipotent sky god, which both dangerous and illusionary.

 

[strat81]

Not a big pledge fan myself because it is usually quasi-compulsory in schools or was when I was coming up. I believe the words and say them but I don't liked forced nationalism.

I remember reciting the pledge everyday in elementary school. I don't think I recited it at all during college. I kinda miss it, especially now that I'm old enough to understand and appreciate what the pledge means.

I am not religious, but I wouldn't classify myself as an atheist. I hate having religion shoved down my throat, but I do not find the pledge to be offensive at all. Nor do I get bothered by the prayer before NASCAR races or anything else.

 

[lee n. field]

I pledge allegiance...

Is a rote patriotic ritual that I for one find kind of creepy. It is simply not that old, and the wording has been tweaked over the years to keep various groups happy (and piss off others). "Under God"? We certainly don't act like it.

Not gun-related.

Really. A mod should close it and let it sink in the west. It's hittin up both religion and politics.