I Still Have My Guns
- Thread starter Boogyman
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Zundfolge, consider it raillery.
Norm357, the meaning of "liberal" has changed quite a bit since the 18th Century. The founders were ultra-liberal in their day, as they favored minimal intrusion by govenment in the conduct of business and in the lives of citizens. "Conservatives" of the day favored tight control of business by the Crown and subjugation of subjects to the power of the Crown. (Socialism wasn't even in the running at the time).
Doesn't mean that these days.
Ideas count more than the labels we stick on them.
--Herself
Norm357, the meaning of "liberal" has changed quite a bit since the 18th Century. The founders were ultra-liberal in their day, as they favored minimal intrusion by govenment in the conduct of business and in the lives of citizens. "Conservatives" of the day favored tight control of business by the Crown and subjugation of subjects to the power of the Crown. (Socialism wasn't even in the running at the time).
Doesn't mean that these days.
Ideas count more than the labels we stick on them.
--Herself
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progunner1957
member
Ya gotta love a dictator with a sense of humor!!
"I still have my guns" is a relative statement
Relevant to what? Simple--relevant to what rifles you want to buy. O'kay. Say today, I choose to purchase a Tommy Gun in .45 ACP, full auto through the Sears and Roebuck catalog. I look in the catalog, and uh, they're gone!? For fact, I actually prefer bolt action rifles, but I recall other fool-hearted politics of "assault" rifles. Odd--my rifles have never "assaulted" anyone. And how about your high cap. magazines? How many of those have you purchased in the past about the past decade?
So, you're wrong. You have the rifles that they allow you to buy, but that as far as it goes, my friend. You are right that we need change--change is GOOD! The Democrats and Republicans have held the office for far too long. At this point, I cast my vote to the independents. And let's not even start to discuss the NSA!
Voting Independent and proud of it!
Doc2005
Relevant to what? Simple--relevant to what rifles you want to buy. O'kay. Say today, I choose to purchase a Tommy Gun in .45 ACP, full auto through the Sears and Roebuck catalog. I look in the catalog, and uh, they're gone!? For fact, I actually prefer bolt action rifles, but I recall other fool-hearted politics of "assault" rifles. Odd--my rifles have never "assaulted" anyone. And how about your high cap. magazines? How many of those have you purchased in the past about the past decade?
So, you're wrong. You have the rifles that they allow you to buy, but that as far as it goes, my friend. You are right that we need change--change is GOOD! The Democrats and Republicans have held the office for far too long. At this point, I cast my vote to the independents. And let's not even start to discuss the NSA!
Voting Independent and proud of it!
Doc2005
progunner1957
member
EXACTLY.
Some people are Democrats first, though. Gun rights are an expendable commodity that they are more than willing to throw under the bus to see the realization of a socialist "utopia" here in America.
It appears that Boogyman stands under that umbrella...
progunner1957
member
And just to be fair, Clinton presided over the Waco attack, where "The Government" trampled every Constitutional and human right in exsistance, and burned the evidence - American citizens.
Silver Bullet
Member
This is the best thread so far this year. Mr. Roberts' post (#18) is a crusher, absolutely blew the original post (#1) out of the water.
Zundfolge
Member
Ah ... well okay thenHerself said:
cracked butt
Member
This is the only line I can agree with in the original post. If the Senate and House are controlled by two different parties, there is hope that Congress will get less done. The less work our Federal Government gets done, the better it is for the rest of us.
Silver Bullet
Member
Negatory.
#1, If you vote in a Democrat president, there's no guarantee that the Dems won't take the Senate/House on the same election.
#2, I don't want gridlock. I want a government that starts to roll back these ridiculous gun laws. In my opinion that is most likely to occur with Republicans.
cracked butt
Member
OK. Th Republicans have done a few good things in concern to gun rights in the last 5 years, but they need to really grow a spine and do more.
A Democrat couldn't even buy a vote for me if they tried.
swampsniper
Member
What worries me is all the talk about running Guliani. I don't think I could bring myself to vote for anyone who can win a NYC election
Silver Bullet
Member
Very true.
What are they waiting for ?
swampsniper
Member
Silver Bullet said:Very true.
What are they waiting for ?
Trying to be all things to all people! We keep looking for a stand on principles, they just look at the next election.
Silver Bullet
Member
That could be an argument for term limits.
bogie
Member
This thread is nothing but yet another installment in "if we can just persuade a 2nd amendment voter to either not vote, or vote democratic, we're gaining ground."
Tell y'all what. If you don't want 'em, just mail 'em to me. I'll pay the postage and the FFL fees.
Tell y'all what. If you don't want 'em, just mail 'em to me. I'll pay the postage and the FFL fees.
progunner1957
member
I was going to say that Boogyman had been beating a dead horse since post #18, but the horse was DOA with post #1.
Sorry if I offend anyone, but IMHO anyone who owns guns and votes for Democrats - the prime movers in the effort to confiscate them - is a fool, plain and simple.
The Poohbahs in the Democrat party have themselves said that gun confiscation is their ultimate goal. If you own guns, why in the hell would you vote for them??
Come to think of it, I'm not sorry after all.
Silver Bullet
Member
Yup. We've had a boatload of these, too. This one was particularly transparent. What's worse, I'm guessing we're going to see a lot more around election time. Too many to get involved with all of them, I think I'll wait until nearer the elections. Just take on one now and then to keep from getting rusty.
thorn726
Member
you know
if a bunch of hyper conservatives hadnt made Alcohol illegal we wouldnt have needed to put all those agents to work on something else when prohibition was repealed.
FURTHER- if we didnt have ultra conservative drug laws exponentially increasing the value of illegal drug trade, we wouldnt have massively violent gangs machine gunning each other, the fuel of the anti gun movement in the US.
make drugs legal, make guns legal, and take responsibilty for educating your children on both and we have hope for a decent society.
otherwise, the republicans may not be taking away the guns, but they are the ones causing the problems that lead to gun regs
if a bunch of hyper conservatives hadnt made Alcohol illegal we wouldnt have needed to put all those agents to work on something else when prohibition was repealed.
FURTHER- if we didnt have ultra conservative drug laws exponentially increasing the value of illegal drug trade, we wouldnt have massively violent gangs machine gunning each other, the fuel of the anti gun movement in the US.
make drugs legal, make guns legal, and take responsibilty for educating your children on both and we have hope for a decent society.
otherwise, the republicans may not be taking away the guns, but they are the ones causing the problems that lead to gun regs
progunner1957
member
You are completely missing the point. This throws more fuel on the "The Government needs more power over the people" fire being fanned by socialists in our culture and "our" (ha, ha) government.
Owen
Moderator Emeritus
Progunner,
I haven't seen many Dems advocating rolling back the war on drugs.
I haven't seen many Dems advocating rolling back the war on drugs.
Silver Bullet
Member
I doubt crime has much to do with gun regs. It's statists wanting to get control. Crime is just the excuse.
beerslurpy
member
Just lock this retarded thread and ignore boogyman in the future. He is an ignorant political hack that for some reason is trying to boost for the Democrats on gun boards, in an era where the Democrats are still the party everyone associates with gun control.
Lets examine all the things we love and hate about gun control and statism and then review who gave it to us:
-14th amendment- abolitionist republicans
-18th amendment- anti-saloon lobby
-NFA- probably a combination of revenuer lobbying and a general desire to disarm the public on the part of FDR and friends
-68 GCA- Democrats, in the wake of the realization that black people had acquired guns. Created the FFL system and the 4473/bound book system. Also created the importation and sporting purposes BS.
-86 FOPA- republicans/reagan had mostly taken over government and began responding to widespread annoyance at the ATF actions undertaken under the authority of the 68 GCA. A NJ Democrat slipped in the MG ban.
The general theme is one of a particular group seizing the wheel and driving liberty into the nearest ditch. At this point, I consider it all to be water under the bridge. Many of the people that got the preceeding laws passed are no longer in power or even alive. The following is why gun owners still hate the Democrats.
Around the early 90s, the current/previous generation of Democrats realized that they could appear tough on crime by passing gun control. This would let them steal the anti-crime toughness issue from reagan and the republicans. The Roberti-Roos trial balloon succeeded, so they began a national level push along similar lines. This was a Democrat/left strategy that culminated in:
-93 brady bill
-94 awb
-unintended political consequences
After 94, gun owners mobilized and began voting. This was practically unheard of before 94. The people who voted for the AWB got mostly kicked out of office and we have since gotten mostly republicans to replace them. Here is why the republicans are seen as being generally pro gun:
-at the state level, we have CCW in nearly 40 states
-the AWB is gone
-we have the gun manufacturer immunity bill
-probably nationwide CCW reciprocity in the works
The 2nd amendment caucus in the house is ALL republicans. The ones who beat the gun control drum the loudest are all Democrats. Conservative western and southern Democrats cringe whenever ted kennedy opens his mouth because he is putting their political carreers in jeopardy.
Lets examine all the things we love and hate about gun control and statism and then review who gave it to us:
-14th amendment- abolitionist republicans
-18th amendment- anti-saloon lobby
-NFA- probably a combination of revenuer lobbying and a general desire to disarm the public on the part of FDR and friends
-68 GCA- Democrats, in the wake of the realization that black people had acquired guns. Created the FFL system and the 4473/bound book system. Also created the importation and sporting purposes BS.
-86 FOPA- republicans/reagan had mostly taken over government and began responding to widespread annoyance at the ATF actions undertaken under the authority of the 68 GCA. A NJ Democrat slipped in the MG ban.
The general theme is one of a particular group seizing the wheel and driving liberty into the nearest ditch. At this point, I consider it all to be water under the bridge. Many of the people that got the preceeding laws passed are no longer in power or even alive. The following is why gun owners still hate the Democrats.
Around the early 90s, the current/previous generation of Democrats realized that they could appear tough on crime by passing gun control. This would let them steal the anti-crime toughness issue from reagan and the republicans. The Roberti-Roos trial balloon succeeded, so they began a national level push along similar lines. This was a Democrat/left strategy that culminated in:
-93 brady bill
-94 awb
-unintended political consequences
After 94, gun owners mobilized and began voting. This was practically unheard of before 94. The people who voted for the AWB got mostly kicked out of office and we have since gotten mostly republicans to replace them. Here is why the republicans are seen as being generally pro gun:
-at the state level, we have CCW in nearly 40 states
-the AWB is gone
-we have the gun manufacturer immunity bill
-probably nationwide CCW reciprocity in the works
The 2nd amendment caucus in the house is ALL republicans. The ones who beat the gun control drum the loudest are all Democrats. Conservative western and southern Democrats cringe whenever ted kennedy opens his mouth because he is putting their political carreers in jeopardy.
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