I think I need to be committed to a institution... I kinda want a .40 S&W Sigma.

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No idea but the original ones are not nearly as available from what I’ve seen. I haven’t done a lot of serious looking though.
 
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There is no gun I'm not willing to own if the price is right. I once had a post war Walther p38 that I bought because I had a mag for it lying around. Miss that gun.:(
 
I shot a Gunsite pistol course a long time ago. One of the other students brought their Smith.

It shot itself apart in only a couple hundred rounds.

Maybe Smith has improved them since, but you'd, probably even today, spend less on a PPQ or P99AS.
 
Miami_JBT said:
Well, my local pawn shop swapped the mag for me. So that seed will never germinate in my garden. Got a 13rd XD-45 for it.

Oh well.....

I do recall the Tennessee State Police issuing the SW9F for a very short period of time and them having nothing but issues with the gun.
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Good for you. You got a mag you can use and got rid of one that was looking like it might cost you few hundred bucks in form of a crappy gun.
 
Before the virus SD9s were $200 and SD40s were $210, I wound up with a couple to go with what I already had, I like to replace the springs and polish the trigger while it is apart, I've not had any problems with any, I like to disassemble the mags and clean and grease the spring and interior, they all seem to rattle when full. You can use any M&P metal sights on the SD line.
 
1KPerDay said:
No idea but the original ones are not nearly as available from what I’ve seen. I haven’t done a lot of serious looking though.
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I just saw one yesterday for the first time and thought, “How come I’ve never heard of these?.”

It was white plastic and looked like a Glock. It was called 40v. It was the cheapest gun on the website.

I want to “get in on time” for once on a used gun while it is still uncool. Are Smith Sigmas the surplus Model 10s of the future?
 
pairof44sp said:
I just saw one yesterday for the first time and thought, “How come I’ve never heard of these?.”

It was white plastic and looked like a Glock. It was called 40v. It was the cheapest gun on the website.

I want to “get in on time” for once on a used gun while it is still uncool. Are Smith Sigmas the surplus Model 10s of the future?
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Sigmas will forever be bad. But only FN made a worse gun.
 
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I bought a S&W SD9VE last year for $250 at a pawn shop. I immediately installed an Apex trigger and spring kit in it.
https://www.apextactical.com/action-enhancement-kit-for-sdve

I too am a Glock guy and the Apex trigger is basically a Glock trigger. I like it and it makes for a good cheap truck gun.
I never cared for the looks of the Sigma pistols. I like the looks of the SD9VE.
 
I know the sigma well. Here is the thing.... they all work or can be made to work if you know what you are doing. Nothing major...a little polishing here and there. Sometimes you need to work on the extractor.

If you dont like crappy triggers and are used to things like 1911s or others with crisp triggers I would stear away. The sights are plastic and very basic with not a whole lot of options anymore. If none of this bothers you ....

first and second gen....SW9F, SW40F, SW9C, SW40C, SW9V, SW40V, SW357V etc. etc. often need a feedramp polish and extractor tuning. The frames can split in front of the serial number plate. The plastic front sight can sheer of if you are rough on it. The flat tipped striker likes to snap off (do not dry fire) and finding replacements is almost impossible. The base plates on the 15 and 17 round mags can spontaneoussly break and leave you picking up rounds. The very early SW9F and SW40F had all plastic mag catches that could fail along with a few other quirks such as no extractor spring plunger and a longer spring that liked to induce extraction malfunctions. The triggers can be very rough due to bad machining on the fireing pin block. The captive guide rod system can fail launching the rod out of the gun.

3rd gen....SW9VE, SW40VE, SW9GVE etc. etc. etc...... S&W revamped the entire pistol. fixed the frame splitting by adding the rail grove and maybe some other things I dont know about. Frame splitting stopped for the most part. Lowered and opened up the ejection port to aid in ejection. Slightly changed the feedramp angle (very slightly) to aid in feeding. Shorten the tube and strengthened the bases on the magazines to stop the magazines from dissasembling themselves. Steamline rounded the slides and added more checkering for better grip and asthetics. Changed the striker to a rounded tip to prevent breakage (still hard to get replacements so dont dry fire). More rounded and polished FP block for a better trigger.

there are some other subtle changes but this is the main stuff. The 3rd gen sw9ve and sw40ve along with the other iterations (mainly just different finishes) are by far the best of the bunch. They are accurate, reliable, and for the most part durable.....unless you compare them to something like a glock....those can have issues too among different generations though. No gun is perfect. So if you want a sigma stick with the 3rd gen guns and avoid all the issues the 1st 2 gens had. S&W doesnt even have the specific parts for the early sigma anymore.

You also have the baby sigmas in the SW380 and SW9. These were budget guns for low round counts. Simple straight blowbacks the SW380 has a zamak slide and like to crack frames if you are rough on it. The feedramp is also zamak and can get torn up with sharp edge hollowpoints. The barrels are housed in zamak and can need to be replaced if they come loose (kind of rare). Expected life was 2,000 rounds from memory...could be wrong. The SW9 was a straight blowback 9mm with a rough cast slide. These have major problems and S&W has been trying to get them off the market for years... almost every problem imaginable with these pistols. I dont really recommend either one of these.

So there it is. I actually like the whole sigma lineage but dont recommend anything other than the 3rd gen guns. 99.9% of shooters will be unhappy with any of the others and in the case of the baby sigmas...you could get hurt if you are not extremely careful and dilligant with them.

If you can accept the triggers they are fine. You also have to accept the fact that there is not a whole lot you can do about the sights and if you snap a striker tip you may be SOL. Yes the ergos are great on the grip angle. You can even smooth out the triggers a little. If you start playing with aftermarket triggers and springs the pistol can get quirky really fast so I tend to tell people to leave them alone other than smoothing.

Like I said.. I like them but they are not for everyone. They were an early attempt at polymer and some things worked while others did not. From the factory other more modern polymers are better. I just grew up with them and stuck with it dealing with the quirks. The have been ridiculed through the years of course... sometimes deserved......other times made up nonsense from people who dont own them. I have owned them all and shot them all....even the 357sig (still have 2 of them). The SW9M is a dangerous design that should have never left the factory IMO. The SW380 is fine as long as you use it as an emrgency gun and dont put many rounds through it....test fire and put it away....it is by no means a shooter. The rest are safe until things start breaking but you wont get hurt. The 3rd gen guns are carry worthy IMO.

I can go on more about little things, different finishes, and even accessories and custom aftermarket parts such as barrels etc. but thats the basics of the Sigma line. I could probably write a book on the baby sigmas and my experiences.

please excuse gramatical errors.... I am typing with a broken hand and I am not reading through all this. Plus my team of editors have covid and are coughing up demons Ha!
 
Good write up @starling. But if the SW9VE is a 3rd generation gun then is the SD9VE a 4th generation gun? I have both versions and like them both. The SW has been 100% so far but I haven’t shot the SD version yet. I expect it will be just as reliable as the SW has been.
 
ThomasT said:
Good write up @starling. But if the SW9VE is a 3rd generation gun then is the SD9VE a 4th generation gun? I have both versions and like them both. The SW has been 100% so far but I haven’t shot the SD version yet. I expect it will be just as reliable as the SW has been.
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pretty much. S&W just didnt want to call the SD9 a sigma to try and stop everyone from bashing them. They changed a few things with the trigger. Obvioussly there are difference in the slide. Barrels interchange. I think the trigger are a little better but thats it. IMO S&W cheapened the construction when they did the SD9. They frames are a little more flimsy. The extractor was cheapened. The barrels are not as thick (maybe for weight purposes). I dont like what they did with the steel tabs by pulling on the frame. I also dont like that they thinned the area of the frame tabs that the recoil spring system sits up against. SD9 is a fine gun. S&W just changed some things (probably to lower production costs) I dont really care for. As they are they accurate and reliable pistols, feel great in the hand, have slightly better triggers.... and are one of the best bang for the buck on the market. I wish they would have kept that certain Sigma look because I thing for a polymer pistol the asthetics were great.... but they decided to go the M&P route which I have always founf strange. They are Sigma Gen4 though. Quite a few parts interchange.

Sigma also had a lot of small runs. There are some full size Gen1 SW357Fs out there. There is even a titanium slide versions in the hands of collectors. They are extremely rare though...maybe only a few. I have seen one and only one. They had ported versions....different color frames...melonite finishes....special editions etc. S&W worked really hard to address peoples concern on these.

If you do have a 357sig version go easy. Sigmas dont really handle hot 357sig all that well. The pressure spike is pretty high and You can get cracks in the polymer around the locking block on the inside of the frame. Its usually around the rear of the recessed area on the right side (muzzle would be forward). This can happen if you go hot and heavy on the 40s as well. It wont blow up... but parts of the frame cracking kind of suck. The tops of the trigger that the pin ride through can crack. I have had that a few times. Dont take out or drench the little peace of white felt inside the trigger return spring. Its not for cosmetics. Its there to stop vibration and promote durability in the spring. If you drench it in oil you can soak it in alcohol and dry it out. Dont screw around with sear reset springs or use an ink pen spring to try get a lighter trigger. Smooth it out if you have to and except that the gun was designed with a heavier trigger for a reason...move on with your life and enjoy it for what it is. Dont try a reduced striker spring as they can induce light strikes. My recommendation to folks who are going to carry a sigma or SD9 is to use Federal ammo or other with softer primers. Sigmas often dont like hard primers. I have had no problems with WWB but I keep my striker springs pretty fresh. I have had light strikes with brands like Wolf, Geco, PPU etc.

There is more probably but thats todays sigma info drop LOL.

The aftermarket stuff is a book unto itself...357 sig and 40s&w match grade ported barrels, red dot mounts, lasers.... yada yada yada.

As I said S&W put a lot of work into the Sigma and they sold a ton of them. They were big news when they first arrived. One of the early pistols designed around the 40s&W. All kind of stuff out there on lawsuits and why sigma sucks compared to glock etc. I never really cared about that. I just focussed on the guns themselves and I always liked them. I like the triggers once they are smooth but I seem to be immune from fear of heavy longer trigger. I still shoot all mine a lot when I dont have to worry about never having ammo again. I carry a melonited 3rd gen 9mm for a primary quite a bit when I need something smaller and easier to conceal. I prefer them to glocks just based on ergos. Glocks are fine pistols as well though.

There are better guns out there sure. Much of that is just personal preference. The pistols work well and I am efficient with them. I dont abuse mine, soak them in mud, run over them with a car, do 5,000 dry fires daily, or try to blow them up. I just try to let people know what they are getting into and what My experience is with pistol designs when gentlemen look like they are pondering a decision. Warts and all.

My only real desire would be for it to have second strike ability. I wish S&W would have just went full true double action only. IMO the pistols would have been perfect had they done that. Sort of a DAO revolver, highly ergonomic, high capacity semi auto hybrid. The way they constructed the recoil spring assemble is backwads too... no reason to do that and it would have eliminated that problem entirely. Not real fond of plastic sights but its not that big of a deal.

Editors still sick with the "VID". Say they wont work unless thier kids get free full ride scholarships to school of choice and new Jeeps. Still negotiating. Please excuse gramatical errors and poor spelling. Its the best of what I have right now.
 
Another great write up starling. Too bad I can only give you one "like". And I have heard the bad mouthing for years and never understood why people trashed them. I thought they were a good $300 gun. For three hundred bucks what did people expect? The overiding complaint was the trigger. If you don't like the trigger then don't buy the gun. But since I have shot double action revolvers double action so long the trigger was never a big concern to me.

The new SD version does have a better trigger over the SW version. And I like the grip and texture a lot on the SD. And the dovetailed metal sights on the SD. Its funny that you don't hear many complaints about the Hi-Point pistols, they are just affordable guns that seem to always work. But its fashionable to bash the S&W guns that also always work.
 
ThomasT said:
Good write up @starling. But if the SW9VE is a 3rd generation gun then is the SD9VE a 4th generation gun? I have both versions and like them both. The SW has been 100% so far but I haven’t shot the SD version yet. I expect it will be just as reliable as the SW has been.
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I am another weirdo that owns both. Neither were planned purchases but for the low cost I couldn't help myself. I had the sd9ve first and assumed the Sigma would be nearly identical, which it is not. It's clear that they are similar but not the same. The Sigma feels like a tank by comparison. My sd9ve has more rounds through it (flawlessly) but my sigma has a habit of locking the slide back because the spring on the slide lock assembly keeps coming out of place. It has happened multiple times and I figure a replacement is in order, even though the gun is in excellent condition.
 
SeanSw said:
I am another weirdo that owns both. Neither were planned purchases but for the low cost I couldn't help myself. I had the sd9ve first and assumed the Sigma would be nearly identical, which it is not. It's clear that they are similar but not the same. The Sigma feels like a tank by comparison. My sd9ve has more rounds through it (flawlessly) but my sigma has a habit of locking the slide back because the spring on the slide lock assembly keeps coming out of place. It has happened multiple times and I figure a replacement is in order, even though the gun is in excellent condition.
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There may be nothing wrong with it. The trigger pin has a grove in it and the end of the spring has to go under the locking block. If your slide release is not engaging that grove correctly that end of the spring can pop up on the front inside of the block. I have seen this occur from triggers being not properly installed from consumers. I guess its possible they could have slipped up at the factory. Typically its from someone playing arounf with triggers.

I should add that I am not really against all the aftermarket triggers out there. Just messing with sear springs. Anyone playing around with Non OEM spring rates... just make sure you do a lot of testing before you go trusting it. I have seen a lot of malfunctions with sigmas because people start messing with things like sear springs and screw up the cycle time. Especially when they start speeding up the the cycle with stronger recoil springs. Springs effect timing and not knowing how to balance them can turn a very reliable pistol into a basket case. Sometimes you can get away with it... sometimes not. It all depends on the design of the system. Things like hammer fired autos are typically more forgiving.

Agreed to terms of editors with the "VID". Gave them the free scholarship and the jeeps. They came to work and then stated they will not agree to edit firearms related posts because "gun are tools of fascists" and they cannot opperate in an environment that they dont have complete assurance of safety. They stated all the guns must be removed from the premises and make a public statement that the RKBA is outdated and those that support it are also outdated. They have all been fired. Their kids will now lose the college and the Jeeps. Two have taken off to Oregon to start up a heroin business. The other has decided to enter adult entertainment. The parents are out celebrating their victory against fascist oppression... unemployed now.

So the editors are gone for good. OH WELL! I will do the best I can on my own.
 
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