If DC Loses:"We Go to Plan B" Say City Officials

[sacp81170a]

LOL! (From one aging geek to another.) Well, in their defense, the Macintosh had not been invented yet

CP/M rules! 64k of main memory and ready to rock, baby!

 

[Wineoceros]

CP/M rules! 64k of main memory and ready to rock, baby!

64K? You had 64K?! Luxury!!!

 

[sacp81170a]

64K? You had 64K?! Luxury!!!

Cromemco System III. Learned Cobol on it.

 

[madmike]

REAL computers have 16K of RAM

At this point, I'm prepared to offer DC a compromise: We'll license guns "just like cars"...

...

...

...

Learner's permit at 15,
license at 16, costs $10 for 4 years,
three non-fatal violations a year without loss of license,
license only needed on public property, not on private property,
valid defense not to have a license in a bona-fide emergency,
test passable by anyone with an IQ over 50,
and blind people can get a license in FL,
universal reciprocity of licenses...

cars/guns only need a license if they are to be operated on public property, not private.

I'll accept that deal right now

 

[gc70]

There's at least one FFL in DC. Josh Sugarmann, of the Violence Policy Center, has one.

Who knows... selling guns might be Sugarman's "Plan B" if DC loses Heller.

 

[Winchester 73]

and blind people can get a license in FL

This may be stretching it a little.

 

[madmike]

Not really. You can be legally blind in 49 states, unable to read signs or see across the intersection, and FL will issue a license.

 

[matt87]

There are certain shooting competitions for blind persons. IIRC there was not long ago a move to change Texas hunting regulations so that blind people could use a laser-equipped rifle, so that a seeing hunting companion could tell them where to aim etc.

 

[publius]

Just how did they manage to circumvent Lopez?

Expanding on Bartholomew Roberts' answer a bit:

They tacked on a new "section 1" to 922 (q)

(1) The Congress finds and declares that—
(A) crime, particularly crime involving drugs and guns, is a pervasive, nationwide problem;
(B) crime at the local level is exacerbated by the interstate movement of drugs, guns, and criminal gangs;
(C) firearms and ammunition move easily in interstate commerce and have been found in increasing numbers in and around schools, as documented in numerous hearings in both the Committee on the Judiciary [3] the House of Representatives and the Committee on the Judiciary of the Senate;
(D) in fact, even before the sale of a firearm, the gun, its component parts, ammunition, and the raw materials from which they are made have considerably moved in interstate commerce;
(E) while criminals freely move from State to State, ordinary citizens and foreign visitors may fear to travel to or through certain parts of the country due to concern about violent crime and gun violence, and parents may decline to send their children to school for the same reason;
(F) the occurrence of violent crime in school zones has resulted in a decline in the quality of education in our country;
(G) this decline in the quality of education has an adverse impact on interstate commerce and the foreign commerce of the United States;
(H) States, localities, and school systems find it almost impossible to handle gun-related crime by themselves—even States, localities, and school systems that have made strong efforts to prevent, detect, and punish gun-related crime find their efforts unavailing due in part to the failure or inability of other States or localities to take strong measures; and
(I) the Congress has the power, under the interstate commerce clause and other provisions of the Constitution, to enact measures to ensure the integrity and safety of the Nation’s schools by enactment of this subsection.

This was actually done after the law had been challenged in court, but before the Supreme Court's decision. Rhenquist even noted that Congressional action in the majority opinion of the Court. The Court chose not to consider it.

 

[madmike]

Matt: I think you missed the point of my post. The anti's don't want to "compromise." They define "compromise" as "less than we have now."

I was just giving a demonstration to that effect. They'd never actually accept the compromise. "Licensing guns like cars" is just a soundbite they use. After that, it would be, "guns are more dangerous than cars," and proceed from there.

 

[Jdude]

If you have to explain what it has to do with guns, it probably doesn't

(D) in fact, even before the sale of a firearm, the gun, its component parts, ammunition, and the raw materials from which they are made have considerably moved in interstate commerce;

If you have to explain what it has to do with interstate commerce, it probably doesn't
--Could we get one of the mods to delete 922(q)?

 

[scout26]

"We have to react as reasonably as we can to protect the citizens of the District."

Errr, Ummm, didn;t DC take a case to the Supreme Court in which they asserted (and won) that the City/District does NOT have the duty to protect anyone ???

Ahhh, found it, My searchfu is strong today:

Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. 1981).
"...a government and its agencies are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any particular individual citizen..." -Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. App. 1981)

 

[Winchester 73]

Not really. You can be legally blind in 49 states, unable to read signs or see across the intersection, and FL will issue a license.

Do you have that in writing,madmike?

 

[Gray Peterson]

There are actually six of what are called "01 FFL's" in the District of Columbia.

 

[madmike]

Winch: There are varying legal levels of "blind," as you well know.

 

[divemedic]

I have seen it with my own eyes while waiting in line at the DL office:

Clerk: "Look into the machine and read the second line."
Elderly Applicant: "E....O...."
C: "No, try again."
EA: "D?"
C: "No, try again."
EA: "Q?"
C: "Great!"
Me: "Hey, if you are gonna let him guess the whole alphabet, why bother? Just give him the stupid license."
C: "Sir, do you have a problem?"

 

[legaleagle_45]

Pre-Lopez they had just said "No guns around schools. Commerce Clause. Thank you." and the Court did not like that.

To be fair, I believe the chronology is as follows:

1.) Court of Appeals makes decision that law is unconstitutional without specific findings of fact implicating Commerce Clause.

2.) Congress amends law to include specific findings of fact implicating Commerce Clause.

3.) SCOTUS takes case on cert and affirms the holding of the Court of Appeals but finds that it does not make any diddly squat difference whether Congress makes findings or not, the law is still unconstitutional. (Diddly squat is a precise legal term of art oftentimes employed by courts).

The law as amended was not part of the SCOTUS case and is still on the books, waiting to see if SCOTUS really meant diddly squat when they said diddly squat. The reason for no real challenges is due to the fact that Congress made federal school funding contingent upon states passing their own laws which mirror the federal statute and prosecutions of violations have proceeded under these state laws rather than the federal statute.

 

[Winchester 73]

I have seen it with my own eyes while waiting in line at the DL office:

Clerk: "Look into the machine and read the second line."
Elderly Applicant: "E....O...."
C: "No, try again."
EA: "D?"
C: "No, try again."
EA: "Q?"
C: "Great!"
Me: "Hey, if you are gonna let him guess the whole alphabet, why bother? Just give him the stupid license."
C: "Sir, do you have a problem?"

Winch: There are varying legal levels of "blind," as you well know

Well you two learned gents may think you are correct,but of course you're both full of beans.
When I went to renew my CDL License in Homestead in January(CDL cannot renew by mail you must renew in person)when given the vision test I was asked to read a specific line without my glasses.I couldn't.I was then told to put on my glasses and read the same line.
I could now read it clearly and passed.The clerk then applied to my CDL,Restrictions:A-Corrective Lenses.
So put out your Urban Legend silliness some place else.

And I mean it.

 

[Robert Hairless]

AS FOR PLAN B - hey, Fenty, how about have a Plan B like Vermont - just trust your citizens and let them buy and carry whatever they'd like. Try it, you'll like it.

I don't want to seem contrary but I tend to trust the judgments formed by local governments about their residents. When the District of Columbia's city government concluded that District residents were violent, even homicidal, lunatics who were too unstable to be trusted with handguns or even functioning long guns, I accepted their judgment. They know their citizens better than I do or anyone else.

It's not up to me to figure out why people on one side of the Potomac River are crazier than people who live on the other side, but there's little doubt that they are. Residents of Virgina are trusted by their government to carry concealed weapons; residents of the district aren't.

Washington, DC, has the highest violent crime rate in the nation. If it were a state, that small geographical area would be the state with the greatest murder rate. And that's so even though the District has the strictest gun control laws in the country. So I sympathize with Mayor Fenty's fear that the people who live there will go even wilder if they're allowed to have guns.

In fact he has me so fearful of the people who live in Washington, DC, that I think the rest of the country needs to be protected from them. They should be restricted from traveling outside the city limits.

Residents of New York City and Chicago also must be pretty scarey people. Not only do their municipal leaders fear what might happen if they were allowed to have handguns but also they fear each other. Surely the Department of Homeland Security should be able to prevent them from getting loose on the rest of the country.

We need a federal law requiring that anyone who sets foot in any of those places--or even lands there on a plane during a layover--should be quarantined for life. It's the only way the rest of the people in this country, those of us who are sane and non-violent, can feel safe.

The mayors of those cities--Adrian Fenty, Michael Bloomberg, and Richard Daley--should set the example for their constitutents. Please Mayors Fenty, Bloomberg, and Daley, please never ever leave your cities. Ever.

If I see any of them in my neighborhood I'm calling 911.

===

Speaking of computer technology, does anyone have an opinion on the Exatron Stringy Floppy? I've been thinking about getting some mass storage for this TRS-80 Model I I use to access the Internet but I'm very conservative about taking giant leaps forward and I'm not in any great hurry.

 

[divemedic]

Winchester- CDL may be a different story from a regular DL, but I know that the above story is true- I was there.

 

[seeker_two]

Not really. You can be legally blind in 49 states, unable to read signs or see across the intersection, and FL will issue a license.

Do you have that in writing,madmike?

Why do you think the drive-up ATM machines have Braille on them?.....

 

[romma]

Residents of New York City and Chicago also must be pretty scarey people. Not only do their municipal leaders fear what might happen if they were allowed to have handguns but also they fear each other. Surely the Department of Homeland Security should be able to prevent them from getting loose on the rest of the country.

We don't have to do that at all...

What we'll do is ban handguns in those places instead, then the good people will be perfectly normal peace loving individuals... And don't worry, they won't buy any illegally or steal any, so we don't need DHS involvement.

 

[madmike]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/01/31/health/main327639.shtml

And nowhere is it worse than in Florida, which leads the country in older-driver deaths. An elderly driver in Florida can go 18 years without having his or her vision or hearing tested. That's right: Someone moving to Florida and getting a license at 75 doesn't have to be checked again until they're 93.

This was finally changed in 2004.


http://lowvisioncare.com/visionlaws.htm#Florida

Florida
Visual Acuity:

Must have 20/70 in either eye with or without corrective lenses.

Monocular persons need 20/40 in the fellow eye.

http://lowvisioncare.com/visionlaws.htm#Indiana

Indiana

Visual Acuity:

20/40 in the better eye, with or without corrective lenses.

20/50 in the better eye: restricted license daytime only

20/70 in each eye with best correction: daytime only (must have 120 degree horizontal field)

Indiana is fairly typical. FL is about as lenient as you get. Note that someone here with a daytime license only can drive 24/7, and people who can't get licenses here because of their vision can get them in FL. Here, the BMV would regard them as legally blind FOR DRIVING PURPOSES.

I'll bet if you go through that list, you'll find 49 states are more restrictive than FL.


And just for amusement, partially related but amusing...
http://www2.tbo.com/content/2007/aug/03/armless-driver-sentenced-jail/?news-breaking

And you still missed my point on the alleged "compromise," which was to point out the hypocrisy of the antis, not to write a didactic analysis of our driving laws.

 

[Winchester 73]

madmike,after doing all of that exhaustive research,you deserve at the very least a giant chocolate bunny.I'd hurl one across cyberspace to you if I could.
And I now heartily concede that countless thousands of legally blind Floridians are hurtling across FL(and the nations)highways this Easter Sunday,probably leaving untold havoc and chaos in their wake even as we speak.
And mike, I didn't miss your point about the alleged "compromise".
It just got "blindsided "in the following posts!Sorry about that!
Have a Happy Easter.

To divemedic,the same eye test is supposed to be applied for CDL and non-CDL alike in Florida.
If you were there at the counter and witnessed that exchange,I have no reason to doubt your veracity.
Obviously, the DMV tester was not following the proper rules by coaching this blind Floridian.
A Happy Easter to you also.

 

[madmike]

Wait, a bureaucrat was twisting the law to do favors for a select class?

Say it isn't so!

Why, that would render even the most effective gun control fallible!

And Happy Easter/Passover/Chocolate Bunny Day all around.