I'm gonna talk about Zombies (intelligently?)

[justice06rr]

I would venture to say that a lot of gun owners are completely disconnected from the land meaning they have a firearm for home defense and shoot at a range but are not really the hunter/outdoorsman type. They have little connection with animals in the wild.
I think the whole zombie thing is a giant metaphor representing the crazy world we live in today. Its kind of like the whole invaders from outer space thing started in the 50's. So the zombie and alien becomes the monsters under everyones bed that can be easily related to.

I would highly agree with this.

Many of us who don't hunt or have easy access to hunting are stuck with other options like shooting zombie type targets (among other types of targets). I've never even had a chance yet to even hunt, but zombie shooting is more accesible and available for those of us who live in urban areas.

With hunting you have to go out in the woods, get a license, proper equipment, etc. Zombie shooting requires none of this! LOL

 

[Pete D.]

downhill since the government took over childhood education.

And when did the government do that?
Most of the people involved in this discussion are probably at least in their 20s (I am certainly well past that.) The government was not in control of the education that I received back in the 50s and 60s and until Geo. W Bush's abortive No Child Left Behind project of 2001, there was little, if any, Federal control of education. (Unless you are referring to LBJ's ESEA of 1965....more a source of funding than control of curriculum).
Local control of education has always been part of the process.
NY State has had state exams for some high school students (Regents Exams) since the 1930s.

For many people, there has been and continues to be an increased alienation from the land, from the outdoors in general. Whenever I go to the range near my home, there are fewer shooters interested in markmanship and hunting skills and more with high capacity magazines, tricked out AKs and ARs and who are more interested in blasting at the berm than hitting the targets before it.
Pete

 

[303tom]

Back in the 1970's when my Dad was just trying to put food on the table and presents under the tree (which wasn't easy then) he took this shooting thing pretty serious. He reloaded powder charges to the individual piece of powder, let alone +- one tenth of a grain. And he practiced, each coyote was worth 85 dollars to a man that knew how to sew up the bullet hole, clean and stretch the hides. These guns were for serious. Whistle Bang Flop. If you don't know what I am talking about move on. Plinking was the fun; trying to hit an occasional beer bottle put far out on a hill (400 yds).
Fast forward to today's crazy world. There are zombie shooters everywhere but no zombies other than the fun loving folks "crawling around" at an unrelated annual event in Denver. To me this whole thing kind of demeans the riflemen of old who depended on guns for real survival. Now are they toys to satisfy an urban video game fantasy? Instead of zombie killing events, why not have some running coyote silhouette shoots, or moving moose targets like in Sweden? Why not devote the time to something more useful like improving hunting skills... instead of shooting at fictional characters. When did we shift as a culture from preparing for hunting and practical things to just playing with our money? Is it lack of hunting ground or connection with nature? Or are we just more centered on shooting at people (terrorists/zombies) instead of animals these days?

I think it is all in how you were brought up, I have 4 boys, but only 1 is into hunting & shooting & they were all brought up the same, & none of them are into the zombie thing, by the way the (Whistle Bang Flop) been a long time sense I heard someone refurr to that, I don`t know how many times I have to whistle to get a animal to stop or turn & look, then BANG & dead. I guess we can`t all be real rifleman..............

 

[wgaynor]

Let's just keep in mind that the reason that people enjoy firearms does not matter nearly as much as the simple fact that they just enjoy firearms.

I would hate to think that firearms were outlawed, or worse, the art of shooting died off because those in touch with the "true" history faded out over time. Let's embrace this new generation and teach them.

 

[j1]

Your opening line is an oxymoron. You cannot talk about zombies intelligently.

 

[DAP90]

I find the prevailing attitude towards people who enjoy zombie shooting distasteful. It’s all about superiority.

Certain types of clays shooters look down at other types of clays shooters. Meat hunters look down on sport hunters. SD/HD shooters look down on those who just like to blast away at a range for entertainment purposes. Classic firearms shooters look down on the tactical crowd – and vice versa.

I could go on but you get the idea.

It’s not helpful. In fact, it’s counterproductive.

I’m glad this site polices zombie threads. It’s not really my thing and I come here for a different kind of firearm focus, but if others want to partake, why should I care?

Find an aspect of shooting you enjoy and go shoot or collect or whatever. If others have a different focus, and aren’t hurting anyone, just be glad we’re all ultimately on the same side.

 

[Robert]

As long as we are united as gun owners against those that seek to take away our rights does it really matter what aspect of the culture we choose to gravitate towards? There are snobs in every culture but we must move beyond that and support all firearms owners, even of what they like makes no sense to us.

At the end of the day, and as long as it is legal and safe, I say live and let live. We face bigger issues from without.

 

[BearGriz]

Here is my theory (similar to some other comments):

Some people who enjoy shooting enjoy fantasizing about shooting zombies, why? No guilt when shooting zombies. You can't fantasize about shooting real people and sleep at night, but with zombies you can do it guilt free.

Same goes for video games and TV, you can see and/or participate in killing zombies without feeling bad (they are already dead). Other things people often don't feel bad shooting in games and movies? Aliens and Nazis.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

To me this whole thing kind of demeans the riflemen of old who depended on guns for real survival. Now are they toys to satisfy an urban video game fantasy?

I totally agree with you on this. Guns are tools that can be used for fun. Not toys that should be used for serious work now and then. That's JMO and I'm sure people will chime in and say "All of my guns are toys since I don't need them to survive." I respect your opinions, but disagree.

The true riflemen of old are demeaned by this type of thing IMO, but that certainly isn't the intent of the zombie shooters, so don't hold it against them. It's comparable to a person not being able to drive stick, buying a higher end sports car, and then saying that is demeaning to old race car drivers. There is no ill intent, the new drivers just want to drive a sports car is all.

I find the entire thing absolutely silly and I think it gives non-shooters and a lot of kids the idea that we as a gun community don't take guns seriously. I think these types of events give the impression that we don't respect that part of a guns nature is that it is a killing tool. Again, JMO.

Honestly I also think the idea of shooting animated things that are already dead, thus no repercussions or guilt from deanimating that moving target sort of desensitizes kids a bit. It is certainly up to the parents to make sure kids understand the difference between real and fake, but again, it seems to instill a sense of disregard and flippant attitude towards something that should be taken seriously.

Or are we just more centered on shooting at people (terrorists/zombies) instead of animals these days?

I think this may contribute to the issue as well. This of course can be linked to modern day mass media. Nowadays, if terrorists attacked something in Kerzbeckiganastan, everyone knows 15 minutes later. In days past that info was filtered by parents. Through in video games and wowza! No wonder the idea of shooting a human shaped target doesn't bother anyone. I also believe that the zombie thing is a way for people who take true "homeland security" (and by that I mean the standing army that is the armed American citizens) seriously to practice shooting human targets without shooting human targets. The anti-gunners don't like it when we do that. So I guess it serves a purpose there.

I would venture to say that a lot of gun owners are completely disconnected from the land meaning they have a firearm for home defense and shoot at a range but are not really the hunter/outdoorsman type. They have little connection with animals in the wild.

This is absolutely true. I am a professional forester by trade. I put together timber sales, and my office is out in the woods. My general rule is "If you can find me, then we'll talk. If not...... leave a message." I navigate the woods off trail with a compass, using landmarks, and maybe aireal photographs if I have them in that area. GPS units are for city people. Get a map, because batteries die and technology sucks. I work alone. I sit down and eat in the dirt. Animals are a real concern. Weather is a real concern. My connection to the land runs very deep and I have dedicated my life to the effort of maintaining the health of public lands and forests in particular.

I am not allowed to carry a gun at work, and that is really unfortunate since there are crazy people in the forest, drug cartel farmers, and a hell of a lot of mountain lions here. To me, a gun can be fun, but it is a tool for survival first and formost. When I practice, I shoot seriously, though I do enjoy it. I also recreate out in the woods, frequently alone. When I do, you better believe I'm armed. I open carry an FNP-45 at those times, because I may actually need a gun to survive. Am I a rifleman? No, I'd say not. But I am a shooter none the less. It is a valuable skill, and one to take seriously. It is especially important if you live, work, and play in the woods as I do.

I grew up in a city, and when I lived there for the first 25 years of my life, I was disconnected from the earth. I was also a Democrat, and against guns in general. Then my perspective changed when I ventured off into the hinterlands, and for the better I'd say. Nature is now so ingrained in me, I can't live without it. A big part of that link is knowing how to survive in nature and what tools you need to survive. Guns are a big one for me.

At the end of the day, and as long as it is legal and safe, I say live and let live.

Robert's comment is the truth. If you aren't hurting anyone, and it's legal and safe, then what do I care. If it gets you out shooting, or gets more people into shooting, ultimately.......... it can't be all bad.

Other things people often don't feel bad shooting in games and movies? Aliens and Nazis.

Now a Nazi shoot I could get into! Aliens, not so much. Don't breed paranoia against aliens. What if they're nice? We could start a war by accident like in the movies!!!! I joke of course.

 

[Sky]

Maybe it is more to do with killing something of value to someone. A killed yote or a fly might offend someones belief system yet the same kind of person seems to have no problem with a double pop to the head of a Zombie.

 

[MachIVshooter]

any thing that gets people involved in shooting and the RKBA can't be all bad. Nor can 'emergency preparedness in general be a bad thing.

This.

The better armed and better prepared we are as a whole, the better off we'll be.

I'm not one of those preppers who has a huge underground reinforced concrete bunker stocked with 20 years of food, NBC suits, huge battery banks, etc. (mostly because the cost is too high, but I digress...). I do, however, keep enough food on hand and enough fuel to run the generator and power the well for at least 6 months, and plenty of ammunition to defend it.

Will we ever face a catastrophe that turns our zombie proxies into real live threats? Eventually. In our lifetimes? Maybe, maybe not. But having the supplies and equipment to survive dire times certainly doesn't hurt you in the present (unless you're spending more money than you have on prepping).

More firearms in civilian hands makes further government regulation that much more difficult. This is a good thing.

More firearms in civilian hands makes us a less and less appealing target to our enemies abroad. This is also a good thing.

At present, there are as many privately owned guns in this country as there are warm bodies, and the number of both is climbing steadily. In a world that generally dislikes us for whatever reasons (what did I ever do to a Palestinian or Chinaman ???), being better armed and better prepared than the enemy is a deterrent. No, it won't stop the terror attacks, but can you imagine a foreign army of a couple million trying to occupy the United States? Even if they get by the 2-1/2 million men & women in our technologically advanced military, they still have to deal with the 80+ million civilian gun owners who don't want them here, and my guess is that people who'd never owned or wanted a firearm would be more than happy to adopt one from those of us gladly willing to give one up to another patriot, making that number even higher.

It's also a deterrent to our own government, which has no shortage of folks who want absolute control. Once more, even if they managed to turn the entire military against the populous (won't happen. Not even close), how do you police and control so many armed people who do not want to be policed and controlled? You can't. You won't.

I'm a life long hunter, so I do appreciate the sentiment of the OP. But he needs to realize that the extreme majority of gun owners are not hunters, and it has been this way for quite some time. Most people have difficulty with killing animals, especially other mammals. I don't begrudge them for this, as long as they don't begrudge me for doing it.

So, once again, whatever the motivation is for a person to be prepared and armed, I'm all for it, so long as they're not hurting anyone.

 

[tarosean]

Also, I'd like to point out that hunting is not particularly accessible to those who don't have hunters in the immediate family (me included). It's not really accessible at all, especially if you've never hunted before, and weren't ever taken as a kid.

If you live in the USA hunting is easily accessible. Sure you may have to drive an hour or two to get out of a major population center. Even without a mentor its never too late to learn! Countless books on hunting anything in the world, plus all the information at your fingertips on the net.

 

[DammitBoy]

This is a great thread, really enjoyed reading it - props to the op!

 

[MachIVshooter]

If you live in the USA hunting is easily accessible. Sure you may have to drive an hour or two to get out of a major population center. Even without a mentor its never too late to learn! Countless books on hunting anything in the world, plus all the information at your fingertips on the net.

It's still a really daunting endeavor if you don't have anyone to show you the ropes. Books are an invaluable resource, but can never replace experience. I can't imagine having headed off into the rockies on my first hunt without the help of an experienced hunter. And I've been a country boy all my life, so I knew a thing or three about the woods before my first big game hunt at age 14. The city dweller or surburbanite who has never done more than hike a few nature trails during the daytime in warmer months would be at a serious and possibly dangerous disadvantage, no matter how many books he reads or youtube videos he watches.

I have escorted new hunters many times, and some of them had "studied" a great deal beforehand. Yet every time, I had to explain that, despite the cold, they needed to wear very little insulation while hiking because they would sweat and then freeze once they stopped moving. Or that the amount of water you'll require humping your gear over 3 or 4 miles of rough terrain is far more than you ever needed walking many times that distance on the side of the road. I really giggled watching one of them try to quarter an elk based on the videos he'd watched; I let him go after it for a few minutes before I explained to him that he simply wasn't going to snap that cow elk's leg bone off below the knee with his bare hands, among other things.

 

[tarosean]

I have escorted new hunters many times, and some of them had "studied" a great deal beforehand.

I didn't say he/she would have instant success.

Getting out there is the most important step. Everything else can be trial and error.

I just dont like to hear that its not available when in fact it is.

 

[CoRoMo]

Mankind is becoming more and more superficial with every passing generation.

I know way too many people who get their news from Entertainment Tonight, Jon Stewart, The View, and Keith Olbermann.

The tipping point is near, or may have been passed, where the majority of gun owners are more interested in the new, shiny toy than the new, learned skill. One can be taken away; the other, not so much.

Gun owners on this very board will refuse to ever gain knowledge of handloading or hunting because of the cost/benefit ratio. They don't believe for a minute that it saves any money over buying the ammo/meat from the store, and they don't want to waste a minute of effort toward those tasks unless there is money to save. Are they more focused on the temporary, on comfort, and the familiar, than learning something challenging that can never be taken away? What will they do if there again comes a day when these skills are more valuable than the tools used to perform the tasks?

There is no way out of this. We are doomed.

 

[Sam Cade]

Mankind is becoming more and more superficial with every passing generation.
<snip>
There is no way out of this. We are doomed.

"I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise (i.e, smartasses) and impatient of restraint" -Hesiod, ca. 700 BCE

 

[Flintstone]

Did you watch the "Zombie Busters Special" on TV last (Mon. Oct.29}? It depicted a newscast with special reports of a zombie invasion--picturing attacks and interviews with so-called survival experts, which led to them advertising their products. In my opinion it was a bunch on non-sense. It is no wonder that so many people think gun owners are a bunch of nuts.When the Zombie stuff started I thought it was just a silly harmless fad that would soon pass away, but it's getting worse.I believe it is way out of hand and doing nothing but harm to the cause of keeping and bearing arms.It makes us look like we don't have enough common sense to own and carry a firearm.That's just my opinion and you are entitled to yours, but it should become a concern to all if we treasure the right to keep and bear arms.Saying it is harmless fun doesn't make it so.

 

[Njal Thorgeirsson]

It's still a really daunting endeavor if you don't have anyone to show you the ropes. Books are an invaluable resource, but can never replace experience. I can't imagine having headed off into the rockies on my first hunt without the help of an experienced hunter. And I've been a country boy all my life, so I knew a thing or three about the woods before my first big game hunt at age 14. The city dweller or surburbanite who has never done more than hike a few nature trails during the daytime in warmer months would be at a serious and possibly dangerous disadvantage, no matter how many books he reads or youtube videos he watches.

I have escorted new hunters many times, and some of them had "studied" a great deal beforehand. Yet every time, I had to explain that, despite the cold, they needed to wear very little insulation while hiking because they would sweat and then freeze once they stopped moving. Or that the amount of water you'll require humping your gear over 3 or 4 miles of rough terrain is far more than you ever needed walking many times that distance on the side of the road. I really giggled watching one of them try to quarter an elk based on the videos he'd watched; I let him go after it for a few minutes before I explained to him that he simply wasn't going to snap that cow elk's leg bone off below the knee with his bare hands, among other things.

I agree. I certainly don't live in the city, and I'm perfectly comfortable hiking and backpacking in the mountains year round. I try to spend as much time there as possible. One day, I thought "Hey, I've never been hunting before- I wonder what I'd have to do to go hunt elk, deer or any large game for that matter here in Colorado." As I started looking through as much internet stuff as I could locate it became increasingly clear that it takes a ton of knowhow, time and experience to embark on a big game hunting trip. I guess I always thought it was pretty much as simple as 'go buy a license, get some advice on a good place and go backpack for a few days and you might find something to shoot'. It quickly became obvious that just making a successful hunt happen by oneself with absolutely no experience is really pretty much an impossibility.

 

[Skribs]

Personally, I have no interest in hunting. I'm not willing to do the work to make a kill "worth it" compared with simply going to the store and buying some hot dogs or lunch meat. It was said in the Jungle Book, and I agree with the sentiment - you kill to eat, or keep from being eaten. Well, I don't kill to eat, but I am prepared to defend myself. That's why my serious gun use has to do with self defense, including my lack of "range toys" or "safe queens", and the only competition I do is action shooting.

As to zombies, if people are having fun and being safe, what's the big deal? If we take the attitude of "you should only have guns for the reasons I have guns", we're going to turn off a lot of shooters.

 

[Ky Larry]

I fail to see how my enjoyment of target shooting is demeaning to riflemen of the past, the OP, or anyone else. It's my money and time and does not concern you. If my tagets are golf balls, pop cans, or paper with zombie faces, it's none of anyones business.Most people don't hunt, fish, or trap for survival anymore because they don't have to. Anyone who wants to live an 18th or 19th century lifestyle is welcome to do it. Please stop critisizeing those of us who don't.


Rant mode off and flame suit on.

 

[tarosean]

Most people don't hunt, fish, or trap for survival anymore because they don't have to. Anyone who wants to live an 18th or 19th century lifestyle is welcome to do it. Please stop critisizeing those of us who don't.

While hunting seems archaic or barbaric to some, Its one heck of a skill to know, just in case something happens to food supplies.

We just had a bad storm hit the East coast. Some people wont have the chance to walk into a supermarket or fast food place to grab a bite to eat. It can be a week or more before normalcy returns and people can even think about buying what they want. Ive been through several hurricanes and seen it first hand just how quickly food supplies can be wiped out.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

If we take the attitude of "you should only have guns for the reasons I have guns", we're going to turn off a lot of shooters.

Very true. I don't like it, I'm not going to do it, but I'm not going to tell others they shouldn't do it if it isn't hurting anyone.

I worry that zombie shoots make all shooters look stupid, but that's like worrying that Minnesota drivers make all drivers look bad. JK of course.

Like Robert said, "Live and let live."

 

[JoeMal]

In Texas, you better break out your wallet if you are interested in hunting. You can't just walk out to the woods and go hunting unless you're asking for trouble

Also, it costs far less to shoot a piece of paper than it does to hunt. (For some of us) Plinking doesn't involve camo clothes, odor-sprays, the latest game-killing-round, a truck and a 4-wheeler, a tag, etc etc etc. Hunting is extremely expensive and one has to have a lot of 'things' unless you live on land you can hunt on.

 

[Texan Scott]

Welcome to The High Road, the gun forum where the questions are made up, and the points don't matter...

30 points to Sam Cade for intelligently involving the Greek poet Hesiod in a thread about zombies.

Sam, are you suggesting it all boils down to the OP shouting "YOUNG WHIPPERSNAPPERS!"?