Is a drivers license necissary to buy from an FFL?

[Black92LX]

A buddy of mine is a resident of Ohio but does not have an Ohio drivers liscence can he purchase a rifle from an FFL in Ohio?? If so what paper work or forms of ID does he need?

 

[kbr80]

Dont quote me on this, from what I remember of other valid forms of ID you can use is, state ID card, valid passport, military ID.

 

[Jim K]

I am not sure what BATFE requires, but most dealers will ask for some official picture ID to prove you are who you say you are, and that you reside where you say you do. A drivers license is one form of ID that is almost always acceptable. A military ID is OK for identification, but needs to be backed by something showing you are a resident of that state or on active duty in that state.

Jim

 

[IZinterrogator]

A military ID is OK for identification, but needs to be backed by something showing you are a resident of that state or on active duty in that state.

Orders assigning you to a base in that state are usually the only acceptable way of proving you are a resident for FFL purposes.

 

[Jim K]

True in the case of a TDY assignment, but permanent party soldiers often don't have their assignment orders at hand. There is also the case where that state is the home of record state, but the soldier is not assigned there. He can legally buy a gun in that state, but if he will need some ID proving he is really is from the state.

Some, maybe all, states have provision for a state ID card that is valid official identification for people who do not drive. These are usually issued through the motor vehicle department and look much like drivers' licenses.

Jim

 

[tg_26101]

He'll need some form of state issued photo ID showing address.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

27 CFR 178.124: FIREARMS TRANSACTION RECORD

Means of identification furnished by a nonlicensee purchasing a firearm.

ATF Rul. 79-7

The law places upon the licensee the responsibility for establishing the identity, place of residence, and age of an unlicensed person before selling or delivering a firearm to such person.

Under 27 CFR 178.124, a nonlicensee's eligibility to purchase a firearm is established through the use of Form 4473 (Firearms Transaction Record). The regulation provides that before a licensee may sell or deliver a firearm to a nonlicensee, the form must be completed showing the purchaser's name, address, date of birth, and other pertinent information. Further, the regulation and form require the purchaser to identify himself in any manner customarily used in commercial transactions (e.g., a driver's license) and the licensee must indicate the manner in which the purchaser was identified. (See, also, 178.125a, personal firearms collection sale by a licensee.)

Satisfactory identification of a firearms purchaser must identify the purchaser's name, age or date of birth, place of residence, and signature. A driver's license or identification card issued by a State in lieu of a driver's license is particularly appropriate. Social Security cards, alien registration receipt cards, and military identification cards are not, in and of themselves, acceptable to identify potentia l firearms purchasers. The Social Security card is unsatisfactory because no address or date of birth is shown. While the alien registration card and military identification show name, age or date of birth, as well as other identifying information, the State of residence is not shown. While a particular document may not be sufficient to meet the statutory requirement for identifying the purchaser, any combination o f documents which together disclose the required information concerning the purchaser is acceptable.

http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/2000_ref.pdf

 

[22-rimfire]

My first reaction... what driver's license does he have? Is he military? Age? If he is a resident of Ohio, I would just get a drivers license in Ohio and not worry about it. Makes life a lot simplier! What's the big deal or do you just like to make things difficult for a FFL. Other option, buy from a buddy-presonal sale.

 

[Tejas Gunwerks]

"True in the case of a TDY assignment, but permanent party soldiers often don't have their assignment orders at hand. There is also the case where that state is the home of record state, but the soldier is not assigned there. He can legally buy a gun in that state, but if he will need some ID proving he is really is from the state."

Unfortunately, this is not true. A person in the military from state A with PCS orders to state B cannot purchase a handgun from a dealer in state A. BATFE recognizes state B as his state of residence. PCS orders do not require 90 days proof of residency. Of course, if the military or PCS orders are never mentioned, why would dealer in state A ever ask for them?

 

[Ala Dan]

A picture ID, on an approved governmental document is an absolute MUST! School ID's will not work, peroid. I have been
told by the BATFE not too accept a non drivers, state issued ID
with no expiration date; because its highly unlikely that a person
will retain that resisdence for a lifetime. Go figure~

The address used on a 4473 MUST match the address that
appears on the picture ID that is presented at the time of purchase.
If the address is different, that opens up a can of worms worthy of
discussion on another day.

 

[Standing Wolf]

A U.S. passport might work; then again, considering it's B.A.T.F.E. regulations we're talking about, the agency might not recognize the U.S. government.

 

[Parruthead]

People With out Drivers License

Every time theres a gun show around Here My Dealer has to tell the Amish He can't sell to them because they dont have I.D's, I think most of there guns are boughten without an FFL involed or Via a Straw purchase.

 

[Majic]

Most DMVs will issue a state approved photo ID for a fee if asked.

 

[obm]

The address used on a 4473 MUST match the address that
appears on the picture ID that is presented at the time of purchase.
If the address is different, that opens up a can of worms worthy of
discussion on another day.

i've experienced otherwise. i have my P.O. Box on my DL. the FFLs i've bought from only specify that i put down my residence address and never hassle me about my DL address not matching what i put down on the yellow form.

 

[SomeKid]

They..

..also accept Handgun Carry Permits. I used mine when I did a rifle transfer in TN.

 

[Onmilo]

Here in Illinois a citizen from a contiguous state may purchase a long gun and use a valid drivers license or state id card from their home state to purchase.
We citizens of Illinois may purchase long guns from the five contiguous states and must display our current 'Ye Olde Gonne Card', (Firearm Owners Identification Card or FOID.)
Our Drivers License just won't do and a dealer selling to an Illinois resident on just their DL violates both State and Federal Ordinances because the law is on both sets of books pertaining to gun law.

 

[Third_Rail]

State ID worked for me.

 

[Sistema1927]

Man oh man, things must have changed.

I remember all of the times that I purchased guns in Kentucky while stationed at Ft. Knox. I had a Texas driver's licence at that time showing my old El Paso address, and I don't remember ever having to present anything other than my Military ID to buy guns. This was in the early 80's.

 

[Kharn]

I thought passports did not list your current address, just your birthplace?

Kharn

 

[Trebor]

i've experienced otherwise. i have my P.O. Box on my DL. the FFLs i've bought from only specify that i put down my residence address and never hassle me about my DL address not matching what i put down on the yellow form.

Have your FFL dealer check the ATF regs again. If he doesn't, he's in for an unpleasant surprise when he has his next compliance inspection.

 

[Jim K]

Hi, Tejas,

Are you sure about that?

If a soldier from, say, Texas, is assigned to Ft. Rucker, then returns to Texas on leave, he can't buy a gun in his native state? I don't think so. If he has only his military ID card, he can't prove residence, but if he has any other kind of Texas ID showing his permanent (home of record) residence, I fail to see why he couldn't legally buy a gun in Texas.

But since he is PCS to Alabama, his military ID and orders also let him purchase a gun in that state.

Jim

 

[jefnvk]

Our Drivers License just won't do and a dealer selling to an Illinois resident on just their DL violates both State and Federal Ordinances because the law is on both sets of books pertaining to gun law.

I don't think that breaking Illinois laws means that you are also breaking Federal laws.

 

[waterhouse]

If a soldier from, say, Texas, is assigned to Ft. Rucker, then returns to Texas on leave, he can't buy a gun in his native state? I don't think so. If he has only his military ID card, he can't prove residence, but if he has any other kind of Texas ID showing his permanent (home of record) residence, I fail to see why he couldn't legally buy a gun in Texas.

But since he is PCS to Alabama, his military ID and orders also let him purchase a gun in that state.

I could be very wrong on this. I attended an ATF seminar a few months back when this was brought up, and the ATF agent giving the speech got it wrong, and another ATF agent pulled out the regs and corrected him, and after 20 minutes of going back and forth I still wasn't positive what the rules actually were.

BUT, my understanding was that permanent orders in another state allow you to buy in that other state, since it is now you permanent residence. You'll need your original state ID and a copy of your permanent orders. You do not need to wait any period of time for residency, you are a resident of the new state on day 1 of showing up for permanent assignment.

If you then go back to visit your parents or something in your hame state where your ID is from, you are not supposed to be able to buy a gun there (This is the part I'm real fuzzy on.) A dealer at the seminar said "how would we know that they were on permanent duty somewhere else? They have a valid state ID." The response was that the dealer was OK, but that the buyer lied on 4473 by stating that they lived at the address which matched their driver's license (which is not their permanent residence). Since lying on Form 4473 is a no-no, the ATF sees this as a problem.

There is an exception: Let's say your base is near a state line, and your permanent duty is in one state but the house you live in is right next door in another state. You commute to work across state lines. In this situation I'm pretty sure the regs say you can buy in eiher state, since you can buy in the state of your permanent residence and military orders can be considered permanent residence . . . technically you have two permanent residences in different states.

As I said at the beginning, I may be wrong and this is a very confusing issue that even the ATF had trouble figuring out.

 

[brickeyee]

Passports do not list an address. A passport and a voter ID card can do the job.

 

[Mr. James]

i've experienced otherwise. i have my P.O. Box on my DL. the FFLs i've bought from only specify that i put down my residence address and never hassle me about my DL address not matching what i put down on the yellow form.

I once missed a great deal on a Sig 220 because the zip codes on my two identifying documents didn't match. Identical information in every way, identical street address, city, state. But the Postal Service had revised local zip codes and my DL still reflected the old one.

The FFL was chapped - he treated me like he was convinced I was a BAT-boy trying to burn him on a picayune infraction.