Is the J-Frame "enough gun"?

[Geronimo45]

Never enter a high-rise with a j-frame. You need a high-cap auto with ammunition compatability with likely east european terrorists. - Die Hard I

High cap autos are good anti-snowmobile weapons. - Die Hard II

Revolvers (j-frame? don't remember) can be used to take down helicopters, however. - Die Hard III

Guess it's all dependent on your territory. If you work at a high-rise run by a certain Japanese company in Los Angeles, a high-cap auto could be very useful. If you're worried about guys with FA weapons in a helicopter shooting at you, a j-frame would probably be a good choice.

 

[Andrew S]

.. so then, I asked myself, "Self, given where you hang out, and your habits,
what's the probability that you're going to run up against 5 armed guys?"

And self answered, "Umm, about 0.000001."

"But", I doggedly pursued the questioning, "if you did get tangled up with 5 armed guys,
would you really be 'better off' with a faster reloading, high cap semi-auto?"

Self thought for a second, then answered:
"Naw, 'cause my last name is not Earp."

After that conversation, I still feel ok with my 642.

Well hopefully everything goes to plan if you ever need to clear leather. I do not expect it to so I would rather over prepare.

Maybe one day I will be able to move to a place where there are no gangs and the only crime is the occasional drunk and disorderly but until then five rounds does not cover enough of the possible situations I may face.

 

[retrieverman]

In a SHTF situation, a J frame in my waist band is better than a shotgun in my truck.

If you can confortably carry and conceal a high capacity auto, go for it, but I am more "comfortable" with my S&W M38 "airweight bodyguard" than my Glock 17.

 

[KINGMAX]

yes

yes - I like a small revolver for a ccw.

 

[DawgFvr]

Besides that...what if that high cap auto doesn't have enough ammo to meet that certain situation you refer to. You might just be cussing up a storm and wishing you had your rifle and a ruck full of ammo and grendades. I mean wear do you draw the line? I'll stick with a 642 in my pocket or a SP101 on my belt. I wrote down the following quote I read somewhere...forget the source but it made a lot of sense to me:

"Time: The time you take to position yourself on the range is probably longer than most gunfights last. Confrontations are sudden affairs, over in 2 to 3 seconds, in the majority of cases. Almost never is there time to cock your gun, stand in profile, and take careful aim at your target. You and the suspect together are not likely to fire more than 3 shots, whether the situation is an ambush, armed robbery, or family fight. In the majority of cases, the initial exchange of fire will determine the outcome. The speed in which you can react to danger, therefore, is likely to be a more critical commodity than the amount of ammunition you have at your disposal. You probably carry more ammunition than you will ever need, but time is almost always in short supply."

 

[Andrew S]

You draw the line whereever you want. Most people here seem to draw the line at the easiest possible scenario. They expect to go up against 1 guy that also has a revolver or maybe a knife. That might be fine for them but it isn't good enough for me so I prepare for an unknown amount of attackers with an unknown amount of weapons. I carry a 229 in 9mm with 1 spare magazine. That gives me 27 rounds compared to the 5 rounds I had in my 638. Lately I have been considering upgrading to a 229 in .40 or .357SIG. That would sacrifice 1 round in each magazine for a more effective round. I draw the line with the 229 because I think anything bigger would start to affect concealment. And yes if I could conceal and AK comfortably I would. The more firepower the more equipped you are to survive.


Yes the majority of shootings are in close proximity and are over in a matter of seconds. That is the majority however. The majority of people are never victims of violent crime either. That doesn't stop me from carrying. Why limit yourself if you can have more? BTW I carry with a round in the chamber. There is no cocking. Just draw and shoot. I have let up on my practice as of late but I do when I can to give an advantage in time as well. Once I get back to shooting regularly(the Bronco needs some work) I will be taking a drawing from the holster course and a couple more intermediate self defense hand gun courses. The more tools you have in the toolbox the better.

 

[Beachcomber]

In response to the original question "Is the J-Frame enough gun?"

I carry a S&W 640 regularly and I think the 38 or 357 J-Frame is sufficient as a CCW... as long as the carrier is willing to commit to it and practice with it regularly. With that said, I also carry a Glock 22 on a daily basis as it is my agency's issued firearm.

I think what this topic boils down to is what the carrier perceives to be his/her threat level at the time s/he chooses to go armed.

Would I feel comfortable in wearing my S&W 640 as my sole firearm when I go to work??? I guess it wouldn't bother me too much if I were to sit at my desk all day long... but out on the street you can bet I definitely feel much more comfortable with the Glock 22 on my hip, as I am much more likely to be involved in a situation where a more powerful, higher capacity firearm, capable of rapid reloads could be vastly more useful.

I also feel quite comfortable wearing my five shot S&W when I'm not working because I don't expect the higher level of confrontation that I could get when working... but I also don't feel comfortable enough to go about unarmed. (So far... I've been lucky!)

I have come to the conclusion that the main reason for choosing a particular firearm over another would be the perceived threat level, occupation, and possibly age of the carrier. For the average person I think the J-Frame is an easy to carry firearm, with sufficient power capable of doing the "up close & personal" work it was designed for.

I'm sure some will not agree with my views... but I thought I would pass it along anyways.

 

[Creature]

If a J-frame was good enough for Lennie Briscoe, well then it's good enough for me!

 

[DAdams]

PigPen

Get the 38 and don't look back!

We Tennesseans are so eloquent. Great points and Nematocyst, jt,dawg and you other west coasters are pretty astute as-well.

 

[AStone]

We Tennesseans are so eloquent. Great points and Nematocyst, jt,dawg and you other west coasters are pretty astute as-well.

OK, I cheated.

I grew up in TN, then moved west.

 

[Stainz]

Some years back, I was in my p-u with a friend on a backroad at a four-way stop. Five guys in an old sedan 'bumped' me - and bailed out instantly. My friend hollered 'GO!' - and I did, making it to the four lane and civilization quickly. A stop at a gunstore on the way home got me a pre-ban G21.

Within a year, I was retired - and an Americorps VISTA worker for Habitat for Humanity - when three young teens came up on bicycles and surrounded me - twenty feet from my truck - and my G21. One pulled up his shirt to show me his snubnose - and demanded my money - while the biggest one tried to get behind me. They were just kids - bent on doing me harm - while I was building their neighbor's new house. Instantly, a plumber came into view, and pulled into the yard, his horn scattering the thugs. That night, I bought the first of a pair of .45 AMT DAO 'Backups', which I carried everywhere I worked - until I got wise and got myself out of harm's way.

The heavy little .45's were swapped out regularly - as were their mags. Still - pocket lint jammed one at the range - the other one stovepiped the second round - the same day! Two guns, one bang from each. I swapped them both, and some moola, on the way home for a pair of new closeout .44 Specials - a 296 & 696. The 296 needed a holster - OWB was uncomfortable, so it didn't 'ride' very often... skip ahead four years - I bought a LNIB 642 - ordered a Mikas holster for it and the 296. Now, one, usually the 642, is in my pocket all of the time. My home now has but one bottom-feeder - a Ruger MKII.

I just cannot believe what a convenient package that 642 & Mikas pocket holster combo is - or how the similar holster makes my 296 fit my jeans pocket, like during yesterday's range trip. Thanks to the '642 Club' thread for the heads up there. And... the 'FBI' load - 158gr LHPSWC - is a proven stopper. My 2" 10 and 642 hit coincident POI/POA at 7-10yd with that load. The 3" 65 I had did hit low. Both the 10 & 642 are astoundingly accurate. Yeah, a J-frame is still good protection. In my experience, semi-auto's were either holster guns - or unreliable. Until recently, I would say my K/L frame snubbies needed a holster, making their carry dubious here. The J-frame - and that pocket holster - make up a suitable protective device for me, when combined with my cerebral filter to keep me out of 'harm's way'.

Stainz

 

[AStone]

Now, one, usually the 642,
is in my pocket all of the time.

Um hmm.

 

[lesjones]

I liked this:

A J-frame is perfectly adequate, until it isn't. A 1911 is perfectly adequate, until it isn't. An FN FAL is perfectly adequate, until it isn't. There will always be situations for which any given weapon will be inadequate.

Yep. The 642 is the gun I carry the most, because it's pocketable.

Now if I knew I was going into potential I'd carry an additional, bigger gun as a primary. If I led a more dangerous life in a more dangerous place I'd be inclined to carry something bigger. As is, a J frame seems to fit with the generally low threat level in my life.

 

[Photoman]

Hmmmm. The age old question that can't be answered. So...a few random thoughts...

Concealed means concealed: Just because the gun is covered up doesn't mean it's concealed. Walking around in suburban Big City USA with a "photographer's vest" on isn't concealed. Walking around with two shirts on in 100 degree weather isn't concealed. Having a 35 ounce "cell phone" under your T-shirt isn't concealed. Squeeking while you walk isn't concealed.

Reliability: "A number of years ago, the New York City Police Department (NYPD) did a study of a 10-year period during which officers of the department were involved in 6,000 armed confrontations. They could not document a single instance in which an officer's revolver failed to fire during one of these confrontations. Given the endless variety of things that can go wrong in a gunfight, I take great comfort in such information." Ed Lovette in "The Snubby Revolver: The ECQ, Backup, and Concealed Carry Standard"

Availability: A gun buried under layers of clothes will not be available in the split moment that most civilian gun events occur (I've been there!). Your hand ~on~ the gun will always be quicker than your hand by your side.

Real world civilian gun events: 0-7 yards, one attacker, three shots fired (if shots are fired at all) and over with in ten seconds. Look at real world cases of civilian gun events. Not cops confronting bank robbers or drug smugglers.

Safety: Double action revolvers are much safer for the average CC'er.

Cost: A J-frame is approximately 1/2 to 2/3 the price of a quality auto pistol.

Conclusion: Is the J-frame enough gun? A question that can't be answered obviously, but it does force one to realize that CC'ing is all about compromise. Attempting to arrive at the best solution giving the limitations of the individual CC'er is what it's all about. I've come to the conclusion that the Airweight J-frame in a quality pocket holster is an excellent option for the average Joe CC'er.

I will concede that practice will be a BIG factor in the successful use of a J-frame. If the CC'er is not willing to practice, then maybe CC'ing is not the best option for that person.

 

[OpFlash]

I will concede that practice will be a BIG factor in the successful use of a J-frame. If the CC'er is not willing to practice, then maybe CC'ing is not the best option for that person.

And with an Airweight J-frame, that practice is NOT going to be fun! Therefore, most CC'ers will not practice as much as they should. Some will make the sacrifice, but that's why I like a carry piece that I can actually enjoy shooting. For me that's my Glock 23, (I often practice with a 9mm barrel for more enjoyment and cost savings) but if I was going for smaller and lighter I would go with the Bersa .380 I described earlier in this thread. YMMV!