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Is this blatantly illegal or within the boundaries? (Cali magazine laws)

Discussion in 'Legal' started by BK, Dec 26, 2012.

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  1. BK

    BK Well-Known Member

    I can see how this is slightly within the boundary of California law but it seems a little blatant and obvious. The item is only defined differently whether it crosses into California or not. If it is mailed into CA, it's a repair kit. If not, it's a high capacity magazine.
    I knew that California law had no regulation over magazine parts or a bona fide kit to repair an existing magazine, but this takes it much further than I thought was possible.

    Repair kit: http://www.44mag.com/product/high_capacity_magazine_repair_kits/
    Banned mag: http://www.44mag.com/product/magpul_pmag_m3_gen_3/pmag_gen_m3
  2. reggie_love

    reggie_love Active Member

  3. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

    Not only is it not blatantly illegal, it conforms exactly to the law as it is written...which is the only form it needs to conform with.

    Crossing the state line has nothing to do with it. It has to do with it's state of assembly or disassembly. Your misunderstanding might come from the coined term "rebuild kit"...it is really a collection of disassembled magazine parts.

    Large capacity (larger than 10 rounds) magazines are not illegal to own within the state...only their import, transfer and manufacture (in it's original designed capacity) is illegal.

    The kits are not only used to repair worn magazines already in the state, they are also used to manufacture limited capacity magazines to fit guns for which there are no reduced capacity magazines available as OEM...they are simply assembled blocked to the correct depth. They can also be owned for use when out of the state
  4. Fishslayer

    Fishslayer Well-Known Member

    Why is selling a box of parts to an area where selling a box of parts is legal "far beyond" anything?:confused:

    It's a rebuild kit for legally owned preban magazines.
  5. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

    After some consideration, I'm not even seeing this as a gray area.

    If this bothers you, you defiantly shouldn't look into Bullet Buttons, or the Single Shot and Single Action Exemptions
  6. Sheepdog1968

    Sheepdog1968 Well-Known Member

    I live in CA and for the past few years there has been a lot of this being done. Personally, it makes me uneasy and I've avoided it like the plague. But then again, I'm cautious by nature. Many seem to be on with it and as I can best tell is that DAs aren't going after folks.
  7. BK

    BK Well-Known Member

    Thanks for being honest Sheepdog. I knew this wasn't as trivial as some would make it.
    No, it is a magazine that is restricted in your state. Look again at the pictures in the auction and read the first sentence of the item's description.
    Why use quotation marks? I never used those words so why did you?
    My first statement here was that I acknowledge how this auction's presentation was within the law. Way to make our site the pride of mannerly conduct with a backhanded comment like that, mod. Please provide the non gunowning public with a better example of our community in the future.
  8. K1500

    K1500 Well-Known Member

    No...when the seller sends them as rebuild kits he or she opens the package and takes the mag apart. As per the letter of the law, it is NOT a magazine that is restricted in your state. If you don't like the law, write your reps and have them change it to ban rebuild kits. FWIW, there is no such thing as "blatantly illegal". Either it is illegal or it is legal, so what's with the blatant part? Assembling the rebuild kit into a functioning 30 round magazine while in the state of CA is illegal. As was mentioned, the kit is legal, and there are many legitimate reasons someone would want one.
  9. BK

    BK Well-Known Member

    You are assuming more than can be considered responsible. I am not from California nor do I live there. These magazines are perfectly legal in this state where I sell them.
    Blatant means openly. I was not asking if his actions were openly done or secrectly done because it is obviously open for everyone to see. My question was about the legality of the blatant actions and my first inclination was that they were legal. This English lesson concludes here.
  10. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

    There was nothing backhanded about it

    It was a blatant comment about your attempting to impose your sense of right and wrong on people who have chosen to follow the law as it is written. You're apparent ethical judgement of the spirit or underlying meaning of the current law, does not change the morality of the actions of those who might benefit from following it as it exist.

    The standard here is that we do not advocate actions in contravention of the current laws. The possession, purchase and importation of rebuild kits is extremely clear in the law...having been presented to the CA DOJ for their opinion as to it's legality

    If you disassembled them before shipping, they would be perfectly legal to sell them in CA also. If you choose to not sell them to to CA it is a business model that you have chosen, I don't see what is to be gained by trying to demonize others who choose a different model
  11. Librarian

    Librarian Well-Known Member

    The letter from the CA-DOJ is from 2005, and is available here

    On point, the question asked was
    "Q3: Can you import all the parts of a single hi-cap magazine at once, provided they are unassembled?
    A3: Yes."

    The letter was signed by Alison Merrilees, then Deputy Attorney General of California, for Bill Lockyer, Attorney General; that is, it is an official legal opinion of the Attorney General of California.

    No one need conform his or her business model to the whims of California; avoiding the place can make a great deal of sense. But it does sometimes take some affirmative action to discover what California law actually says, to make an informed decision.
  12. danez71

    danez71 Well-Known Member

  13. TenDriver

    TenDriver Well-Known Member

    Curious about something. I live in Alabama. If I have a cousin in California and send him a 30 rd mag, have I broken anything other than a CA law? (Not gonna happen. Just curious).

    Or is this another way the CA law lacks teeth?
  14. danez71

    danez71 Well-Known Member

    If you disassemble the mag befopre you ship it... you have done nothing wrong in CA eyes.

    That is a rebuild kit.

    If your cousin assembles the pieces into a 11+ mag, he's broken CA law; not you.
  15. Quiet

    Quiet Well-Known Member

    If it was in parts, then you would not violate any Federal or state laws.

    If it was a complete magazine, then you would violate CA state laws.
    If CA DOJ finds out about it, they can prosecute you for importing a large capacity magazine to CA after 01-01-2000 (which is a felony).
    In the past, CA DOJ has gone after people/vendors for doing this via civil (lawsuits) & criminal (warrants) means.
  16. Elkins45

    Elkins45 Well-Known Member

    I totally don't have a dog in this fight, but how would CA prosecute someone from outside CA who broke a law specific to CA and did so without physically entering the state? Especially considering the act in question is legal in the person's state of residence. Wouldn't the person's state of residence have to assist in the prosecution or extradition?
  17. k_dawg

    k_dawg Well-Known Member


    We have lawful citizens engaging in activities which are lawful without any doubt [ See letter from CA-DOJ ], and yet we still have 'Second Amendment Supporters' willing to verbally stab them in the back.
  18. Quiet

    Quiet Well-Known Member

    The other states would need to provide assistance for any criminal charges.
    The other states do not provide assistance for any civil suits.
  19. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

    I'm willing to be corrected on this...as English is my second language...but would the recipient be the importer?
  20. Librarian

    Librarian Well-Known Member

    If he solicited it, probably. If it just showed up on his doorstep, more likely not.

    It is an incredibly stupid, and poorly written law.

    Some of the banned activities are pretty clearly 'commercial', IMO
    (PC 32310) but the law doesn't make the distinction, so the restrictions also apply to private individuals.

    Note that to 'buy', 'own', 'possess' and 'use' are not there.
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