It's been a real blood bath in AZ

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And, likely, a national standard would be more akin to NY state's ideas than VT's. No thank you.
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Yeah. Keep in mind the population in NY and CA would drive a national law to follow their lead. I personally would rather not go there. For the most part, I like NC's (Shall Issue and OC) laws. The big ones that do bug me here are no carry in Bar/Grills and our retarded Castle Doctrine,

While I LOVE AZ's laws, I think NC's style would be the best to ease the minds of anti's. You have CCW being issued to those who are not violent offenders or guilty of alcohol based crimes (DWI, etc). Once you get your permit you can buy any gun shy of a FA without background check. It is not ideal for Pro-2A nor Anti's but is IMO, a good middle ground that gives us the ability to carry as we see fit and lets the Anti's FEEL as though the criminals are not getting them.
 
Gouranga - while I agree with your sentiment, I think that we now know how 'easing the mind of the antis' works for liberty. Every time we compromise, we lose. I'd rather that we just follow the constitution and respect people's rights. Certainly, people don't compromise on the 1st amendment as they do on the 2nd.

I've come to the conclusion that people who believe common citizens shouldn't have guns will never be comfortable until that happens, so I'd rather stick to my guns on this one (pun intended :) ).

I definitely agree - no fed involvement necessary. The 2nd covers it plainly enough.
 
I had sent an email to Gov. Brewer and I tried to warn her that if they dropped the requirements for concealed carry the her state was going to be over run by LAWYERS just waiting to sue someone, anyone for a shooting incident. I think the ambulance chasers are worse than the Illegal Mexicans.
 
wbwanzer said:
In all seriousness, glad to hear that it's working out well for you guys. I live in the People's Republic of Maryland where there is no chance of carrying. I love Arizona and wish that lived there. For now, I have to settle for visiting.
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No chance of carrying? What about the bad guys? They still carry in Maryland don't they? :evil:
 
Just wait until the mexican president has his say. After all, all those guns in AZ are making it to Mexico!
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If we would just build that fence, we could keep all those guns from migrating south... :rolleyes:
 
esquare said:
Gouranga - while I agree with your sentiment, I think that we now know how 'easing the mind of the antis' works for liberty. Every time we compromise, we lose. I'd rather that we just follow the constitution and respect people's rights. Certainly, people don't compromise on the 1st amendment as they do on the 2nd.

I've come to the conclusion that people who believe common citizens shouldn't have guns will never be comfortable until that happens, so I'd rather stick to my guns on this one (pun intended :) ).

I definitely agree - no fed involvement necessary. The 2nd covers it plainly enough.
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I agree with esquare. I used to think that we should sort of fly under the radar on some issues and try to ease their (anti's) minds on other issues. The problem is that they have their heads buried so deep in a dark smelly place that they don't and won't ever see the world as it really is. They wouldn't know truth if it bit them. They really believe that if we leave that BG's along they won't bother us. They are not willing to admit (until someone has to come to their defense, and some not even then) that self defense is a necessary thing in this world.

And for the very small number of anti's that ARE aware of reality, it's not about "GUN" control, it's about CONTROL PERIOD. They want socialism or worse as our form of government and they will just keep taking and taking until we stop them.

As far as recreational shooting goes, they don't want us to have that either. They really believe that NOBODY is responsible enough to handle a firearm safely. So they have to protect themselves (and us) from ourselves (gun owners).

Bottom line...WE CAN'T GIVE THEM ANYTHING! Or they'll end up with everything and we'll end up with nothing.
 
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I suspect that now "no permit required" CCW is in place you won't see much open carry except in the very rural areas. In more populated places it isn't necessary to make a statement anymore, and storekeepers at least will welcome the change. Admitedly, guns sometimes scare some people away...
 
The media makes it seem like everyone is packing like it's doomsday. Fear sells copy, reality is too boring to report.

I'm keeping my eyes open.
 
Understand that in Arizona, even before the law was changed, it was hard to find someone that wasn't packing - concealed or otherwise. Given that the practice was so widespread, and apparently without serious problems. They finely made what was illegal, legal. ;)
 
Gun control is simply an attempt by liberal advocates of failed social policies to placate the work-a-day masses that are shocked by violent crime, so that they won't demand criminal justice reform.
 
Dr.Rob said:
Been in Phoenix 3 days, haven't seen anyone openly carrying yet.
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Open carry has never been huge in Phx. But last I heard we have something like 78k registered CCWs in Maricopa county, which is pretty much all metro Phx area. That comes out to about 1 in every 50 or 60 people. Now without the need of a CCW I personally know at least 8 or 10 more people that carry.

Edit. Last census put 3.9 million in Maricopa county and 78k CCW. Thats 1 in 50.
Az population is around 6.3 million with 154k CCW. Thats 1 in 40.
 
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I am working in Alaska. 13 wks in Kotzebue-I saw one person open carrying on the tundra. I've been in Anchorage for a month and I've seen no open carry. Not to say they aren't carrying concealed.
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Gouranga, I hate NCs open carry policy. Basicly if anyone gets scared they can call the cops and you are in deep crap. They can hit you with "carrying to terorize the public", or something of that nature. Plus it really changes by city and county.

Try going to Chapel Hill with a gun in your car that isn't empty, in a case, and locked in the trunk. If you don't have a CCL you will be facing serious issues. Of course, I have had one Chapel Hill cop say "you better keep it where it can be seen." A different cop gave me the advice about empty and in the trunk. So, in NC the law about how to carry any gun without a CCL is up for independent review by each cop. To me that spells trouble.

When my dad was moving from Chapel Hill to Durham he was pulled over for speeding. The cop asked to search the car and he consented. When the police officer found six rifles, and two black powder pistols, in the trunk he cuffed my dad and called for back up. By the time it was all said and done the cops had confiscated his guns and took him to jail.

No official charges were pressed but he had to prove ownership of every gun. The two rifles he no longer had reciepts for were ordered to be destroyed by an Orange County judge.

NC is far from the worst state when it comes to gun laws. However, I believe there needs to be some clarification on certain issues. There are also a lot of laws that even CCL owners have to follow that seem idiotic when considering the purpose of CC.
 
Mike, that's why you never consent to a warrantless search of your vehicle, ever. Just because you have nothing to hide doesn't give them the right to look.
I lived here in AZ all my life, used to open carry, and it was amazing how many people couldn't see the lawfully carried sidearm! Now the law used to read "Wholly or partially visible, weapon or holster", so an IWB rig where just the grip was showing, or the bottom of a holster under a very short jacket/vest, was legal. I also tended to dress somewhat decent when carrying, which draws far less comment. Some poeple assume when you carry a good looking sidearm in professional leather, dressed well, you're a cop. It worked well for years, before we got CCW.
STILL no river of guns running down the street, lying liberals.
 
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