I've been asking around all over the place if anyone has experience with Mag-Spark adapters for the Ruger Old Army

I've just been made aware of these things as I've been looking into muzzleloading handguns that use the 209 primers and unfortunately it's rare. I'm not surprised to see the usual suspects dismissing the concept, but I've had enough instances where a cap doesn't go off and I can't imagine a modern primer would be as finicky.

Since the design for revolvers doesn't allow for anything more than gallery load type shooting, my interest in these is would be rifles and shotguns. I have a Lyman Plains pistol that I've not been shooting much due to the cap shortage and these could be just the ticket to get it back into action.
 
hawg said:
You're funny :rofl: A .44 cap and ball has more velocity than a .45 ACP.
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I'm talking about with the 209 adapter, apparently they will bust if used with even moderate power loads if used in a revolver.

Long guns don't seem to have that issue.
 
TTv2 said:
but I've had enough instances where a cap doesn't go off and I can't imagine a modern primer would be as finicky.
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Revolver or rifle, the percussion system is 100% reliable. (some modern guns are poorly designed, and are not 100%) Miss fires or caps not going off are 100% "pilot error". "enough instances" means failure to clean properly, prep the gun properly, ensure every mechanical aspect is in working order, proper cap to nipple fit, etc. etc. Attention to detail. I mean no offense, but that's the truth. If a percussion pistol or rifle is not 100% reliable, lack of a 209 primer is not the cause.
 
Ugly Sauce said:
Revolver or rifle, the percussion system is 100% reliable. (some modern guns are poorly designed, and are not 100%) Miss fires or caps not going off are 100% "pilot error". "enough instances" means failure to clean properly, prep the gun properly, ensure every mechanical aspect is in working order, proper cap to nipple fit, etc. etc. Attention to detail. I mean no offense, but that's the truth. If a percussion pistol or rifle is not 100% reliable, lack of a 209 primer is not the cause.
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Truth! If a standard percussion cap won't ignite your charge you did something wrong or there's something wrong with your gun.
 
Ugly Sauce said:
Revolver or rifle, the percussion system is 100% reliable. (some modern guns are poorly designed, and are not 100%) Miss fires or caps not going off are 100% "pilot error". "enough instances" means failure to clean properly, prep the gun properly, ensure every mechanical aspect is in working order, proper cap to nipple fit, etc. etc. Attention to detail. I mean no offense, but that's the truth. If a percussion pistol or rifle is not 100% reliable, lack of a 209 primer is not the cause.
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I don't care. My usual process with caps is fire one before I load the chamber and usually the first shot for each chamber after I do this I have no issues. It's after reloading I can run into problems, but that's because I'm not using a pick on each flash hole.

If you're telling me that percussion caps can be more reliable than a 209 primer, you may as well offer to sell me the bridge you own. I don't doubt that a cap can be as reliable, but I don't have the time or interest to put in to make that possible.

That's if caps are as available as 209's are. Given that they're not and as long as the industry fails to produce enough to meet demand, my preference currently is 209 because I can buy them. I've been looking for percussion caps for over 4 years now...
 
I don't pop a cap before I load. My chambers aren't soaked with oil. I've never used a pick on a nipple either. If you're depending on a 209 to burn through oil you left in a chamber that's your fault not the cap.
 
I would still pop a 209 before loading to shoot, that procedure would not change.
 
Clean dry chambers and visual check of the holes in the nipples before loading. Seat the caps on properly fitted nipples. On very rare occasion you might find one that doesn't fire but reliability is generally 99.99% that it will go bang. I agree that caps are scarce and when you do find them they are way overpriced. So are modern primers in my area. If it comes down to it you can always make your own. Yes it's tedious work but it could mean the difference between shooting or your guns being paper weights.
 
Back in the 19th muzzleloading benchrest “slug rifles” commonly had primer ignition. But nobody was in a hurry and more uniform ignition was worth the trouble.
 
hawg said:
Looks like I was wrong, they don't have the screw on hooey with a firing pin. I still see them as solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
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Jackrabbit1957 said:
Clean dry chambers and visual check of the holes in the nipples before loading. Seat the caps on properly fitted nipples. On very rare occasion you might find one that doesn't fire but reliability is generally 99.99% that it will go bang. I agree that caps are scarce and when you do find them they are way overpriced. So are modern primers in my area. If it comes down to it you can always make your own. Yes it's tedious work but it could mean the difference between shooting or your guns being paper weights.
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Can’t remember the last time I’ve had a slow fire let alone a misfire in a percussion revolver. These things might be useful if you want to use Blackhorn or something like that. Or if you can’t find caps I suppose.
 
TTv2 said:
I'm talking about with the 209 adapter, apparently they will bust if used with even moderate power loads if used in a revolver.

Long guns don't seem to have that issue.
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Bust? Like break apart or something?
 
Ugly Sauce said:
I can think of no valid reason to use them. I don't have any experience with a Old Army Ruger, But I've never had any cap fail to fire, or any chamber fail to fire if the cap went off, (I've never had a cap not go off) on any of my revolvers. Primers can fail to go off. Happens with cartridge ammo.

If such a device is "needed", then something is wrong with the revolver and should be addressed. Sounds like a real waste of money. However, I have no experience with them. But again, if the revolver fails to fire, there is something wrong with the revolver and no such gizmo is going to fix it. ? That's why you don't see them all over the place.

Don't do it!!! :)
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All we have to do is look back on the several times percussion caps were nigh impossible to find. An additional means of fire seems prudent if you like shooting a lot. As a matter of fact I have a most exquisite set of tedious nipples to accept pistol primers for this reason specifically (thanks again Doak!).

Another thing is these could allow for powders harder to ignite.

I’ve never had an issue myself, but that’s not the point I don’t think here.
 
grter said:
I on the other hand see them as a problem.

No No and no this has been discussed before. They have no screw on covers like the rifle mag sparks. Because of this you can only load very very very weak loads (hint start at 5 grains of black powder and work your way up until you see signs of back bulging and no connicals because they are to heavy) which may work for close range paper punching. Any load that even comes halfway close to any kind of bullet velocity will cause bad blow back. Expect BB gun velocity.

I do like rifle magsparks they work well in all weather despite having to screw on a cap.

I am very peeved that they don't make this crystal clear in their marketing. It's after you get your hands on the instructions when the what did I buy regret bomb gets dropped on you.

The thread below talks extensively about this. The British version is essentially the same as the magspark Ruger Old Army setup.

Any interest for smokeless powder cylinder with 209 primers for Ruger Old Army?

Any interest for smokeless powder cylinder with 209 primers for Ruger Old Army? Last week I had a conversation with the lady from Howell Arms https://www.howellarms.com/ regarding manufacturing of SMOKELESS CYLINDER FOR MUZZLE-LOADING REVOLVER, using 209 shotgun primers. They have patent for...
www.thehighroad.org

There was a guy who made a pistol primer setup that worked with all loads like a primer should, It was very well liked by the lucky few who got them but only a small amount were made. My impression is he did not like all the hassle involved in making them and refuses to make any more.
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Was this Doak?
 
woodnbow said:
I’ve never had ignition issues with blackpowder or any substitutes using regula old caps. The channel is short and straight and unless it’s blocked or full of oil just plain works.

I suppose people are looking for a way to make a magnum using Blackhorn or something like that… if that’s the case, Ruger makes a fine .44 Magnum or .45 colt which will be just fine.
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Is Blackhorn any more powerful than Swiss, Olde Eynsford or Triple? Figured it was on par but just needed a higher ignition temp.
 
I've heard it's stronger than Goex but nothing definitive about Swiss but at 80.00 for 8 ounces I'm not going to find out.
 
hawg said:
I've heard it's stronger than Goex but nothing definitive about Swiss but at 80.00 for 8 ounces I'm not going to find out.
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Oh, me either. It seems the only thing you really gain is a cleaner burn and less smoke if that’s your thing.

I’ve been using Olde Eynsford and Triple 7 for over a decade and like them both for different reasons. One day I’ll try Swiss. These more than meets my needs and desires. Less smoke might be nice on a sidearm on a pig hunt, but I’m not too concerned with that, especially not enough so to spend that kind of money! My powders cost plenty thanks.
 
hawg said:
Olde Eynsford is almost as good as Swiss. I have both 2F and 3F Swiss, OE and Goex. I never saw the need for 4F. I'll probably never use the Goex. That's some nasty stuff.
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I have used a lot of GOEX over the years. Live in the hinterlands, so I drove either 40 miles to Eagle, ( RIP Al), 35 miles to Glenwood (RIP Dusty) a hundred miles to Leadville (Bill Copper RIP) or 40 miles to Craig, they all stocked GOEX. I honestly didn’t know anyone else made black powder. Suspected someone might but didn’t know for certain. (Why did typing this suddenly make me feel older’n dirt?) Anyway I started an irrigation and pumping business in the early 80’s, the internet a few years later and found a whole world out there… for better or worse…
 
hawg said:
Olde Eynsford is almost as good as Swiss. I have both 2F and 3F Swiss, OE and Goex. I never saw the need for 4F. I'll probably never use the Goex. That's some nasty stuff.
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BTW, is Goex producing OE yet? I have seen the other stuff available.
 
woodnbow said:
BTW, is Goex producing OE yet? I have seen the other stuff available.
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I don't know if they're making it yet. I never used Goex until recently. I used Dupont back in the day and then went to Pyrodex when you couldn't get real black anymore and that was sometime in the 70's. I used it for many years. When I went back to real bp I jumped right on the Swiss train.
 
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