Jammed 1911 Guide Rod?

[Beren]

1911 Experts,

The guide rod of my Griffon appears to be jammed somehow - I cannot depress it enough to get the barrel bushing turned. Any ideas on what can cause this and how to address it? I'm about ready to take a hammer to the darn thing. The recoil spring plug does depress, but not the guide rod. It's not done this before.

Thanks,

Beren

 

[m1911joe]

The guide rod should not move when it is in place and should be recessed
from the end of the slide. Not sure what might be behind it to hold it out.
Not a problem just pull the slide back till it lines up with the take down
notch on the slide stop. Remove the slide stop. Becareful the slide is under
spring pressure. Then remove the slide while holding the guide and spring
so the do not take off. You should be able to see what is hanging the
guide rod up after this.

Is this a one piece or a two piece guide rod?

 

[Delmar]

This does sound like a two piece guide rod unscrewing.

 

[1911Tuner]

Jammed Rod

Probably not a two-piece unscrewing...They fit flush at the plug, and need to be apart to depress the plug anyway.

Put the barrel and bushing in the slide and lay the rod on the barrel. The
sides of the head shouldn't make contact with the slide rails as you slide it
fore and aft.

lay it in the frame. It shouldn't make contact anywhere except the impact surface at the end of the spring tunnel.

If the sides of the head are making contact, relieve it lightly until the contact areas are free.

When you go to reassemble the gun, make sure that the slide is fully forward. Some rods are so close in length, that it only takes a tiny bit
to keep the bushing from turning.

If the rod is clearing everything that it should, and the length is the issue, an alternative assembly method is to put the top-end of the gun together
and put it on the frame as an assembly.

Check your PMs

Tuner

 

[Beren]

I should specify - the pistol is currently assembled. I am unable to disassemble it due to this problem. I'll take another look at it when I get home and appreciate the pointers.

 

[1911Tuner]

Assembled

Aha! Look for a socket in the end of the rod. (Allen wrench) if it's there, just get a wrench and unscrew it. If not, take the slide off as an assembly and wrestle with it a little. It'll come apart.

Standin' by,

Tuner

 

[Beren]

No socket, it's not a screw-out. I spent most of the previous night yanking and pulling at the thing..I'll try again tonight.

 

[1911Tuner]

Try ...

Grasp the pistol in the weak hand and depress the spring plug with the
flat base of a magazine with the other. Reach up with the finger and thumb of the weak hand and try to rotate the bushing while pulling
up on the slide against the downward push of the magazine against the plug. That might provide that extra few thousandths of clearance to swing the bushing around.

Standin' by,

Tuner

 

[Delmar]

Yeah Tuner-I had a two piece rod which did not have the hex or a screwdriver slot in it. Which started turning on me while assembled. I took the slide off the frame as mentioned above and removed that dastardly piece of foul stench and went back to the tried and true.

I don't think that part has landed yet

 

[1911Tuner]

Two-Piece?

Delmar said:

Yeah Tuner-I had a two piece rod which did not have the hex or a screwdriver slot in it.

That may have been a guide rod that was supposed to be a one-piece.
Some of those have the rod threaded into the head. Sometimes they will
unscrew, even though they're supposedly locked in with epoxy. if the
end didn't fit flush or nearly so with the end of the plug, that's what it was.

And:

I took the slide off the frame as mentioned above and removed that dastardly piece of foul stench and went back to the tried and true.

Not a thing wrong with the good ol' stuff.


I don't think that part has landed yet.

LMAO...Been there a few times myself.

 

[Jim K]

OK, let's hear again all the wonderful benefits of those super sexy guide rods.

Jim

 

[Beren]

TAKE THAT, you stubborn pistol!!

Sigh.

I've probably done a bit of damage to my pistol, but it's now apart. You see, even with the recoil spring plug depressed, the guide rod was flush with the outer rim of the bushing. This meant the bushing was not going to go anywhere. Closer examination revealed that the guide rod appeared to be of two parts and was beginning to separate near the base.

Having no proper tools on hand and lacking in patience, I performed impromptu caveman surgery.

With the slide removed from the frame, I compressed the recoil rod assembly and pinned it in a compressed state with the only thing I could find that would fit: a dime. Then, I found the only thing in the apartment that would survive pounding while hopefully limiting damage - a plastic-covered free weight of the type used on dumbbells. Slide firmly in hand, I proceeded to bring it down guide-rod first onto the free weight. With authority - about half-strength, but I'm moderately in shape and 6'7". Several whacks later, the guide rod had shortened enough that (with dime removed!) I was able to swing the bushing free and remove the spring/rod.

There are very minor chips/scratches on the forward face of the barrel lug, just where it starts its first curve down from the barrel itself. The guide rod is not going back into the gun, I'm going to replace it. I probably should have used a spent 9mm brass shell instead of a dime...

What should I watch out for when I go to test fire the pistol again?

Thanks again for all your help!

Edited to add: When I first purchased this pistol, I wanted a "beater 1911" that I could use to learn the basics of how it worked without worrying much about scratching it up. Well, I literally got myself a "beater." Time to buy some proper tools and books.

 

[Beren]

Would Brownell # 965-025-002 be a good replacement guide rod? (My Griffon is Commander-sized.)

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/st...x?p=16390&title=1911+AUTO+RECOIL+SPRING+GUIDE

 

[1911Tuner]

Takes a Lickin' and Keeps on a-Tickin'

There are very minor chips/scratches on the forward face of the barrel lug, just where it starts its first curve down from the barrel itself.



*thud* <------------Tuner fainted.

Keep an eye on that lower lug. The dings and scratches could be the start of a beautiful crack.

 

[stans]

Somebody please break out the smelling salts, mass fainting in progress! Barrel might be toast, 1911 Tuner is right, as usual. You could see the bottom lug crack and maybe even part company with the rest of the barrel.

 

[Delmar]

Jim Keenan wrote:OK, let's hear again all the wonderful benefits of those super sexy guide rods.


Uhhh, Jim. What would those benefits be, other than a bit more muzzle weight?


Super Sexy? Just what part of ones anatomy are you supposed to be using in order to work with this part?

 

[Beren]

You could see the bottom lug crack and maybe even part company with the rest of the barrel

Thanks guys. I will definitely keep a close eye on the lug for signs of wear. I may be overstating the extent of the nicks; they are barely perceptible. I'll try to get a picture in the next few days.

 

[stans]

What would those benefits be, other than a bit more muzzle weight?

I have a home brewed Commander size 1911 that does work a little better with a full length guide rod, my other 1911's could not care less as far as reliability goes. Supposedly, the full length guide rod prevents the recoil spring from kinking during recoil and promotes smoother operation of the pistol. Well, the stock 1911 set up minimizes any kinking potential because the spring plug, being long and hollow, tends to capture the spring and keep it in line with the standard guide rod. Extra weight? Yeah, but is it enough to notice? I can't tell the difference! Now in my Delta Elite, I do prefer a full length guide rod. I also run a shock buffer in this pistol. The slide can move pretty fast in the Delta Elite, so the full lenght rod might be of some small benefit. So for most 1911's the full length guide rod is a solution in search of a problem. And yes, they do look sexy and probably help to sell more 1911's.

 

[jimb124]

I noticed that you solved your problem with some heavy manhandling. My Griffon did the same thing recently. The guide rod had appeared to come apart just enough to prevent the barrel bushing from turning and allowing even a field strip. My fix was like yours - cussing, prying, and a hammer!

My solution was to throw the Griffon guiderod in the trashcan and install a Wilson one piece Commander guide rod.

I now have close to 500 rounds since the fix with no problems.

BTW, I really like my Griffon - I have really gotten my money's worth!

Jim

 

[Beren]

cussing, prying, and a hammer!

Jim,

Glad to hear I'm not alone! There are a couple other things I'll need to address on this pistol after I install a new guide rod. My front nightsight appears to have gone too dim to be useful, and the trigger has ...well...up and down wiggle in it. Is that normal?

I might buy a second Griffon, but new, definitely not used. I have no idea what the previous owner did to this poor handgun, but it practically screams of childhood trauma. I did find a very nice Molina at a local shop that's available for $200, I'm considering it as well.

 

[stans]

A little up and down as well as a tiny bit of side to side play is normal in most of your basic 1911's. You can fit a match grade trigger and eliminate all most all of the play.

 

[jimb124]

Beren - My Griffon has the same "slop" in the trigger (a little looseness both side to side and up and down). Remember, though, this is not a custom made 1911, and a little tolerance is to be expected. After 1500 rounds and a little bit of polishing on the trigger channel in the frame and on the bows of the trigger, I am satisfied with the trigger as it is. I do have a match trigger sitting on my bench, a solution already suggested by another poster.

I have not been satisfied with the sights since I got mine, as I noticed the same thing you did - they weren't quite what I has expected from "night sights". Meanwhile, a little blue loctite on the screw in the rear sight has stopped that one from coming loose after a session at the range. I will probably change these sights - still trying to decide which way to go...

For what I paid for mine, I wasn't expecting a Baer or Wilson, but I have gotten a lot more than I anticipated. All in all, a good investment for a whole lot of fun!

Jim

 

[Beren]

It lives...again!

Well, I took my Griffon to the range for the first time since the Great Self-Extending Guide Rod Saga. I had since purchased and installed a new two-piece (by design this time) guide rod and a new 20-lb recoil spring.

First few shots: about twelve inches to the left at 25 feet. Ack? A quick glance at the gun reminded me that I had tapped the rear sight far to the left the last time, when I was having horrible accuracy problems with the pistol. I believe those problems were due to the guide rod issue... I gently tapped the rear sight back to center and tried again.

Hey, where'd the "10" go? Much improved, even for my at-best-average marksmanship level. Strangely enough, my Griffon seems to love Wolf ammo. However, I did experience some feeding issues that I haven't had before (some stovepipes, some failures to eject) - could that be due to the new recoil spring? Should I replace it with a standard 18-lb spring? What poundage should the mainspring and firing pin spring be? (The latter two I may replace 'just because.')

And now the rear sight doesn't want to stay. Should I just secure it with a drop of loctite?

Thanks again for all your advice, guys. I've been enjoying myself.

 

[1911Tuner]

Griffon Woes

Howdy Beren,

If the gun has a 5-inch barrel, use a 16 pound spring.

For the rear sight, take it out and use a punch in the dovetail to kick up
a few burrs. Work from the outside deges toward the center. Several
small dings are better than two or three big ones. It should last a long time unless you drift the sight back and forth a lot.

Malfunctions with Wolff ammo? No surprises there. That stuff ain't fit
company for man nor beast. If ya want cheap, get some Sellier & Bellot or PMP. It's real brass and it's reloadable.

Luck to ya!

Tuner

 

[sm]

I've seen this problem child...and pm'd Tuner on the fix and outcome as he can better explain than I. The old gunsmith did say ( amongst other things Art's Grammaw does not allow)... it's like...

" MOST fishing lures are designed to catch a fisherman's wallet, some "may" actually catch fish - worms , minnows and crickets ALWAYS will...gimme worms, minnow and crickets".