Just read Jack O'Connor

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peacemaker45

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Howdy folks. Being interested in both reading and rifles, I recently decided to do some reading about rifles. Although I did grow up with guns, and reading about guns, I did so too late to read any of Jack O'Connor's magazine pieces, as he, alas, left the scene four years before I was born. I also hadn't read any of his books until now, though I've certainly heard and read a lot about him.

Anyhow, along with several other "before my time," classics, I was able to find a copy of his 1970 book The Hunting Rifle. It's not my intent to write a full blown review, merely to make a few observations and ask a few questions.

First, the elephant in the room. Knowing of him by reputation, I was surprised to see how little he was pushing the .270 Winchester. That may be the thing for which he is most remembered, and yet he always recommended, at least in this book, an appropriate caliber that you can shoot well. Far from pushing the .270 for everything, he talked about varmint rifles, deer rifles, Magnum 30s, medium bores and big bores, all as tools fitted for certain jobs.

Second, the enmity with Elmer Keith. He did at one point mention that one ought to ask for more qualification in an expert than merely that he wear a big hat, and another time, in discussing formulas for so-called stopping power, he mentioned Keith by name. Otherwise, there was small sign of acrimony.

Third, is his prose style. He certainly presented his information clearly and well, but to tell the truth, I didn't find his style particularly engaging. Keith may be scatterbrained and badly organized, but you'd never call him dull. Cooper may have been excessively formalistic, but he was funny, too.

Next, the questions. Mostly these are things he mentioned, but which I'd never thought of, or never thought of in that way before.

One such is the way he describes some bullet failures. Sometimes bullets fail to penetrate, instead blowing up on impact. I'd always just thought of them as fragmenting, but he describes such bullets as "a gilding metal bottle, filled with molten lead," which shatters and spews liquid lead everywhere on impact. He says this is caused by too soft an alloy for the core, and too much heat from the friction of the barrel. Any truth to the description? Any way even to know?

Another is the effect of a bullet's rotational speed on wounding. It hadn't ever occurred to me, but an expanded hollow point, with petals sticking out in all directions and spinning at 200,000 RPM is a fearsome little buzz saw. But does it continue to spin in tissue? Is it a factor at all?
 
I used to think the concept of the bullets rotational speed having an impact on how effective it was on killing game was hogwash. But lately, really just within the last year or 2 I've seen enough evidence to convince me that it is a factor. I'm not 100% convinced it makes a huge difference, but I'm keeping an open mind now as I read more.

I've read a bit of JOC. He doesn't shove the 270 down others throats and does give other rounds a fair evaluation. But when he went hunting the 270 was the gun he most often reached for.
 
When I satrted hunting and shooting, Jack O'Conner was in his heyday as shooting editor of Outdoor Life magazine. To myself and my Buddies Jack was diety and his words regarding anything in the gun world as gospel.
Jack did in fact think highly of the .270 Winchester and he really didn't think much of the "Magnumitis" taking over the Country, emphisizing instead careful shot placement.
Jack was down to earth and truthful in his writings, more so than the writers of today.
 
Interesting, I might need to pick one of his books up. As for whether bullets continue to spin once they encounter flesh, physics would tell you yes, albeit at a decreasing rpm due to the denser medium. That is exactly what the slow motion gel test videos from brassfetcher on YouTube show as well. It would be hard to say to what extent differences between already high rotational velocities change the wounding characteristics of a given bullet though.
 
Lot of modern day misconceptions mostly brought about by oft repeated internet factoids about Jack O.
While he did tend to favor his 270 he was a fan of a great many cartridges, including the some of the belted magnums.
Much of the stuff he wrote back then is still applicable today.
One of my treasured items is a note I received from him back in the early 60's when I wrote him asking about a reloading suggestion.
 
I did the calculations once, and a bullet's rotational energy and momentum are relatively tiny - on the order of a millionth it's forward energy & momentum. Even unexpanded, it'd surely stop spinning as soon as it penetrates a medium.
 
I grew up reading Jack O'Connor and he was my shooting idle for many years. His excellent writing skills came from being a College professor in northern Arizona. To say he didn't push the 270 Winchester is an understatement to say the least, and it was a constant battle between him and Elmer Keith as to whether small highspeed bullets were the best choice for big game or slower larger bullets. Looking back I can say that ol Jack was only partially correct. I now think a 30 caliber bullet is much better for deer hunting than a 27 caliber. The worst message O'Connor ever put out for me was to say a 4 power scope was completely adequate for big game hunting. For me the use of a higher power variable scope really added to my long range success. Since he died the quality of bullets and optics have improved so much he would be surprised. The rifles he used in the 1960's perform so much better today with the improved bullets and optics.
 
I think lead that impacts at high speed can act like a liquid due to extreme pressure (I shoot steel gongs and see lead splatter and dust everywhere) but it is not actually melting. I had some firm ideas in the '80s about bullet construction and minimum calibers and SD for certain applications based on the writings of experts with old bullet technology. In recent years I realized two things: 1. I was right/they were right at the time, 2. Bullet technology, design, and construction are much better today.

Mike
 
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Like you, I came along long after O'Connor's heyday, but I've read some of his work and a biography on him. It struck me as well how little the 270 appeared around him. In fact, I think he generally preferred the 30-06 for most use. Also, he recommended shooter appropriate rifles, which shows that he had an open mind, such as the 7MM Mauser for his wife.

The other think that struck me was that he was very much a gentleman academic with a gun. They don't make them like O'Connor any more...
Mauserguy
 
If you look at the rotation of the bullet in relation to the forward velocity, you will find that, of course, it spins according to the twist rate of the barrel. For a nominal .30 caliber, with a 1:12 inch twist, the bullet will turn once per foot. As the bullet slows due to air drag, the spin remains relatively constant. However, at more normal ranges (< 300 yards or so), the velocity is still 70% or more of original velocity.

When the bullet strikes its target and mushrooms, the increased radius means that the rate of rotation slows (conservation of momentum). We will still see, allowing for loss of axial velocity and radial velocity, about 1 twist per foot. Considering that a deer is only about a foot or so thick, we're looking at one twist during a passage through the chest cavity. This will be a minor effect.

Some anti-firearms people saw the rotational velocity numbers a few years ago and had a brief flurry of press releases about "bullets ripping through flesh like a buzz saw".
 
I too read his books back in the 60's. There is no denying his love for the .270. One interesting note that O'Connor stated that there was no difference in poi with different bullet weights (130, 150 and maybe another as I recall).
 
I too read his books back in the 60's. There is no denying his love for the .270. One interesting note that O'Connor stated that there was no difference in poi with different bullet weights (130, 150 and maybe another as I recall).
He was of course refering to 130 &150 grain bullets in the .270 Winchester as I recall.
 
One such is the way he describes some bullet failures. Sometimes bullets fail to penetrate, instead blowing up on impact. I'd always just thought of them as fragmenting, but he describes such bullets as "a gilding metal bottle, filled with molten lead," which shatters and spews liquid lead everywhere on impact. He says this is caused by too soft an alloy for the core, and too much heat from the friction of the barrel. Any truth to the description? Any way even to know?
Simply examine the fragments of the bullet -- if they have broken up from impact, they will be irregular and rough. If they actually melted, they will be rounded.

In all my hunting, I have had bullets fail on me -- but never found any evidence the core actually melted.

Another is the effect of a bullet's rotational speed on wounding. It hadn't ever occurred to me, but an expanded hollow point, with petals sticking out in all directions and spinning at 200,000 RPM is a fearsome little buzz saw. But does it continue to spin in tissue? Is it a factor at all?

Consider a deer -- it would take a pretty big buck to be a foot thick. If you shot it with a 1 in 12 twist, the bullet would make exactly one revolution going through such a huge animal. One revolution is hardly a "fearsome little buzz saw."
 
Even unexpanded, it'd surely stop spinning as soon as it penetrates a medium.

Why would you expect it to stop rotating as soon as it hits a denser medium? It's still going to have an angular velocity and therefore angular momentum. When the bullet hits flesh/gel, it continues to rotate, but, of course with the higher drag forces, the rotational velocity "bleeds off" much faster.

The video below shows the bullets rotating during most of their travel through the (16 inch I think) gel block.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqziWTq7X1c

As for whether the rotation of the bullet enhances it's wounding effect, who knows, but it would be interesting to see if there has ever been much serious study on the subject.
 
Gtscotty - Good catch. I redid the calculations and confirmed a .270's rotational energy is a mere (approx) 4 inch-pounds. I figured that's so little that any resistance would stop it. But, if I understand the units, the "inch" part of the energy is small (radius of a .270 bullet = .135), so the "pounds" part must be relatively big. IOW, it'd take about 30 lbs of "resistance" to stop a .270 bullet from spinning, which I guess ballistic gel doesn't offer. Just my WAG.
 
Never read his books but I grew up reading OConner in outdoor life. Always stuck me as more a guns and hunting writer rather just a gun writer. His contemporary Warren Page was more into technical gun writing[wildcats, competition] then Jack.
 
Both he and Warren Page were professors. Jack was a Professor of Journalism, Warren a professor of English.
 
Where did you get the figure of 200,000 rpm, may I ask? I think that's about 2x too high to be realistic, for a deer rifle, probably with a 1 in 10"rifling twist, and sub 3000 fps velocitis. Since a bullet slows down in a body, the rotational torgue would slow down too, (I would think,anyway).

Jack was also a big fan of the 7x57 Mauser and the 257 Roberts. At least people don't confuse him with somebody who knew gunfighting. Elmer never even pointed a gun at anybody, nor had one pointed at him. He was never a cop, either. It's quite amazing how many people are convinced otherwise.
 
Let's take a rifle with a 1 in 10 twist and a muzzle velocity of 3,000 fps. 6/5 of a foot X 3000 feet per second X 60 seconds in a minute = 216,000 revolutions per minute.

A fast twist .223 Remington would do that nicely. In fact, it would beat that figure by about 10-15%.
 
In 25 years of deer, elk, and hog hunting I've never needed anything larger than a 6X fixed power scope 25-300+ yards. In that same time span I've seen dozens upon dozens of deer fall to my 257 bob, 6.5 swede, 7x57, and 270 win. You wont convince me otherwise that a magnum cartridge or a 3-12 scope is "needed" to do the same.
 
According to high-speed footage of ballistics tests from Brass Fetcher, some bullets do continue to spin after entering a medium such as ballistics gel.

With the 22-250 and the 30-06, it seems they are too light relative to their velocity to show much rotation in the footage. However, the slower and heaver (w.r.t. velocity of the projectile) handgun bullets clearly continue to rotate in the medium, but not in the case of the Speer +P 45ACP load. Also, the the 223 seems to also rotate in the gelatin, as is evident by the spiraled shadows in the cavity.

Link to 22-250 footage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7x24KHXhyw
Link to 30-06 footage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8E138NgyFs
Link to 223 footage (w/ visible rotation): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m2vaJCBQTs
Link to 45ACP Speer Gold Dot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8XqAMn4Wqo
Link to 9mm vs 45acp (w/ visible rotation): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqziWTq7X1c
 
You guys are hackin on my hero. I loved the old man, I thought of him as a hunter and outdoorsman rather than a gun writer. He came off as more level headed rather than having an agenda.
 
whether its Jack Oconnor, Elmer Keith, Jeff Cooper or Boddington....those were their opiniions...if you are a true shooter, make up your own opinion and don't be a sheeple.
 
I've read all of Elmer's books, and didn't see that. where is your source?

I'm too tired to do the calculations at the moment, on the rpms. I guess all the big game and men shot over the years with "just' iron sights never got hit at all, hmm? I"ve hit many a crow and prairie dog at 200+ yds with 4x scopes. I'd never bother to own more than 2x7, even on a varmint rifle.
 
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