Just read Jack O'Connor

[sage5907]

I have read most of Jack O'Connor's books and he did most of his big game hunting with a 270 Winchester, 30-06 and a 375 H&H for big game in Africa. He did not like a 300 magnum and he said he would always prefer a 30-06 over a 300 magnum. He wrote about "Picking your Expert" and he was quite negatively adamant about the so called expert who would take a new cartridge on a deer hunt, shoot one deer, and then proclaim that the cartridge was the perfect deer hunting cartridge. Jack also did his reloading from the top of the chart and his 270 Winchester rounds where quite hot as compared to the top loads in the reloading manuals today.

 

[Captcurt]

I have always been a fan of Uncle Jack and have several of his books. He was of a time of prose. A time when people had the talent for writing. Writers of that day told a story relating a personal experience. It is almost a lost art now. Now the articles are more technical with bias reviews. A modern story might go something like this.

It had been nearly 5 minutes since the timer went off on the Buckkiller 2000 feeder. I was about to crawl out of the Highlander box blind when a movement caught my eye. The big 185 inch 12 point eased out of the cactus and begain to chow down on the acorn flavored Buckbuster feed pellets. The sight picture was super clear thru the Bullnell 5500. I had cranked the magnification up to 24X and was amazed at how well the scope gathered light. The 122gr Smackmaster bullet left the 28" barrel at around 4500 fps and knocked the buck off of his feet.

Sorry. I could go on but you get the drift. I miss the old writers. Archibald Rutledge, Russell Annabel, Townsend Whelen, Col. Charles Askins are some other writers that could spin a yarn as well as Elmer Keith. Check them out and you will open up a whole new perspective on writing. These writers could entertain as well as inform you.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

A couple of years back, my granddaughters got me to buy some magazine subscriptions. One that I chose was Outdoor Life.

I hadn't read that magazine in years and when I got the first issue I was aghast -- the magazine that used to publish real writers like Jack O'Connor, Patrick MacManus and EC Crossman has gone to hell!

 

[shafter]

Third, is his prose style. He certainly presented his information clearly and well, but to tell the truth, I didn't find his style particularly engaging. Keith may be scatterbrained and badly organized, but you'd never call him dull. Cooper may have been excessively formalistic, but he was funny, too.

Ah, Jeff Cooper! The man had a way with words.

 

[Captcurt]

Ah, Jeff Cooper! The man had a way with words.

How could I forget Jeff Cooper? His book, In the Gravest Extreme, should be mandatory read for a gun owner.

 

[T.R.]

I started reading O'Connor is the 1960's and nearly always found his column very interesting. One of my favorite reads is the chapter titled "Thutty-Thutty" within his Rifle Book. I've taken much game with my 30-30 carbine and never found it lacking within reasonable distances.

270 is a rifle I've never owned. .308 is my long range rifle.

Sam Fadala is a better writer and has been to Africa many more times as well.

TR

 

[JayPee]

In his book "The Hunting Rifle" from 1970, Jack devoted an entire chapter to the sadly overlooked but excellent 7x57mm Mauser cartridge. He liked it very much and it was his wife's favorite hunting caliber. I patterned a lot of my 7x57 mm hand loads after the loads he mentioned in the chapter entitled: "Big Punch in Little Case." He died in 1978 on a cruise ship. Quite a man.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

Ah, Jeff Cooper! The man had a way with words.

I am excessively formalistic too so I always enjoyed reading Cooper. He may have been an influence on me since I was reading him since I was a small child.

Mike

 

[Slamfire]

My copy of “The Hunting Rifle” is so well thumbed the cover has fallen off and the spine is cracked. Mr O’Connor wrote about what he knew, and unfortunately, he never used the 257 Roberts, I would have loved to read his opinion on that cartridge. He defends the 30-30, and writes an excellent section called “Salt with the Figures”. All you have to do is read the gun magazines of the 50’s with all the hoopla about magnums and wildcats to understand why he has a chapter that expresses skepticism on the claims of the era. But, as an example, here is an Weatherby ad from 1958, and guess what, their lethality has never been exceeded, or in fact, equaled in modern history!



Mr. O’Connor has a whole section on stopping power too, and I believe it is very well balanced.


Mr O’Connor was a product of his days, I suspect he repeats some of the myths and legends of the time, but I forgot which, but, so do many today. He was a Journalist, wrote exceptionally well.

I have wondered about the shooting abilities of these older writers. I have noticed that every rifle that I free floated the accuracy improved. I have free floated a couple of older rifles and those rifles shot horribly before they were free floated. So when I read, on page 324 of Keith’s Rifles for Large Game “I never have had any use for “floating” barrels: they are simply a cheap substitute for proper wood and perfect bedding”, at the last rifle match I mentioned this to one of the Club’s Graybeards and he agreed that none of his rifles with a bedded barrel ever shot well until the barrel was free floated. And when I asked “just how good of shots were these guys?”, he could not answer definitely either. How good of a shot can you be when a bedded barrel flings out the occasional round at four to six inch intervals, and not notice?!

 

[MistWolf]

Keith was right. A properly bedded rifle shoots well. It's just that it takes a lot of labor to properly fit an action to a wood stock. Using resin is faster. Sporter weigh barrels generally shoot better with just a bit of upward pressure from the end of the forearm than they do if they are completely free floated. However, every barrel is a law unto itself.

Elmer Keith was a good shot. He often made long range shots with his handgun

 

[torqem]

That's pretty funny.

Cooper did not write IN THE GRAVEST EXTREME. Massaad Ayoob wrote that. Check out his youtube vids. He's come a long ways since he was "melting Micros" with a torch! Inside Joke, you'd have to know Mas.

 

[Edarnold]

The remark about a bullet being a gilding-metal bottle full of molten lead is based on the experience of the generation preceding Mr. O'Connor. Dr. Mann, in his book The Bullet's Flight, experimented with the then brand-new .30-40 Krag cartridge. He drilled a small hole in the jacket of a service round and fired it through a series of closely spaced screens. His photos clearly show a thin spray of lead, rotating as it passed through successive screens. The first of the truly high velocity sporting cartridges, the .256 Newton, experienced bullet failures with conventional bullets. One of the designer's solutions was to wrap the core in a strip of parchment paper before swaging it into the jacket, to provide insulation from the heat in the jacket.

Today's bullets have heavier jackets, and alloyed cores when intended for high velocities. Even so, I can remember comments about hand loaders using up their stock of 45gr. Hornet bullets in their new .222 Remington varminters, and being puzzled when five-shot groups showed only three holes in the paper. Took a while to realize the other two had disintegrated on the way downrange.

 

[Zeke/PA]

Rifle bedding? Did you EVER see a Pre-64 Model 70 that didn't shoot?
That was the year or thereabouts that Winchester came out with the sudden "free floating"enlightenment.
It Didn' last long though.

 

[toiville2feathers]

Jack did not shove the 270 down any ones throat. Taking a new rifle out hunting, shooting one game animal with it and then writing a rave review on it wasn't his style. He was a leader by example, sort of person, and a fan of Winchester model 70's.
What Jack did that promoted the Winchester model 70 in 270 Win caliber was to shoot one of the few Grand Slams at the time period of late 50's and early 60's. A Grand Slam is the taking all 25 north american big game animals with fair chase metods, and they all have to be large enough to make the Boone and Crockett book. He did that all with a 270. He did however have to shoot a couple Kodiak bears because the guide had to finish the first one off because it was charging him. and it got to close for safety sake. So to Jack that one didn't count.
Thats how he built the reputation of the 270. Every monthly issue of Out Door life had a full page artists illustration pertaining to the story, and Jack wrote a hunting story that was 2-3 pages long, including photos of the hunt.
I was 14 at the time and I had all 25 pictures on my bedroom wall. Went to sleep looking at them, woke up looking at them. Those were the days, and Jack was our Idol to all young hunters at that time. Myself at that time had a seemly unsurmountable problem. I only have sight in my left eye. Model 70's weren't made in left hand versions, so all that was available was a savage 110 in a 270 win. But in 1995 when they started to produce them I fufilled my life long dream by ordering a left hand stainless model 70 in 270 from the Winchester custom shop. Life is good now, I love it, it's a good shooting rifle and everytime I pick it up I think of the stories Jack wrote about his grand slam. Come to think of it, Jack is more like a cult leader to us than an Idol.

 

[Captcurt]

Keith was right. A properly bedded rifle shoots well. It's just that it takes a lot of labor to properly fit an action to a wood stock. Using resin is faster. Sporter weigh barrels generally shoot better with just a bit of upward pressure from the end of the forearm than they do if they are completely free floated. However, every barrel is a law unto itself.

Elmer Keith was a good shot. He often made long range shots with his handgun

I often wonder how many of Keith's shots were made with the typewriter? I read a couple of accounts where he took a mule deer out at 600 yards with an open sighted revolver. Just how much hold over would you need for a 44mag at 600 yards?

I'm sorry people, but I just don't buy it.

 

[torqem]

I don't understand.

Since you don't need a fast second shot (or think that you wont) why would it matter if you used a right handed bolt action, for the first shot, from the left shoulder? I have shot that way all of my life. I simply use the weak side hand to cycle the bolt. Elmer also claimed that a rattler surprised him as he walked along a trail, revolver openly carried and that his mind went blank after he jumped, and when he could again think straight, he was several yards down the trail and the rattler had been shot to pieces. Mel Tappan claimed to have done this, while sitting reading in the grass, with a 38 snub, but all HE got in the way of "warning" was a rustle in the grass. and HE hit the snake in the head "in mid-strike" with one shot from a .38 snub.

Still, flukes can and do happen. I once ran out to get a downed pheasant, having handed the shotgun to my friend. As I approached, the bird took off running. It was outdistancing me, so as I ran, full speed, I fired one shot at it, DA from a .38 snub, one handed. It centered the bird. All I can say is that it was his day to die.

 

[sage5907]

Shortly after Jack O'connor died in the 1978 I took a tour of the Speer bullet factory in Lewiston, Idaho and I asked the factory representative to describe ol Jack. He told me that Jack was a very demanding individual, and that you just couldn't do enough for ol Jack. Although he didn't come across that way in his writings I think he was a very focused individual who didn't have very much patience with others. I doubt if going on a hunting trip with him would have been very enjoyable. On the other hand, he was result oriented and went after his objectives. I really liked his writing style.

 

[torqem]

Jack definitely promoted the 257 Roberts for use by his wife, or any recoil-blast sensitive person. I think that I remember him using it himself, a few times, but I'm vague about it. Eleanor did work her way up to using the 06. At the least she used one to brain an elephant. Jack probably would not have permitted that attempt, if he thought that she might botch the attempt.

 

[Laphroaig]

unfortunately, he never used the 257 Roberts, I would have loved to read his opinion on that cartridge

Actually, (at least according to page 15 in the attached article) there were at least 3 .257 Roberts in the O'Connor household. Both Eleanor and Jack owned that chambering when they still lived in Arizona. Jack had another one built for Eleanor after they moved to Idaho, but she became attached to a 7 x 57 and didn't hunt with the .257 much after that.

http://jack-oconnor.org/pdf/JackoConnor-Newsletter-1stQuarter-2013.pdf

Laphroaig

 

[Savage99]

JOConnor was active along with Warren Page, Pete Brown, Col. Townsend Whelen and others when I started out. Hagel and Keith were more interesting and fun.

He painted a word picture of climbing in the Western mountains after sheep however the hunting he did nor his rifle knowledge was like what we used here in the North East for hunting. Nor did he comment much on target shooting which we did a lot of.

I read some from a book he wrote recently and I was not at all impressed by what he said:

JoC wrote about Col. Townsend Whelen;

"The late Colonel Townsend Whelen was a good friend of mine."
"Acually in a long but thin career as a big-game hunter Colonel Whelen shot no vast amount of game. What he did shoot was mostly deer. I believe he killed only one grizzly in his llfetime.................

And so JOC goes on to degrade others.

Another by JOC: "For some reason few people seem able to evaluate their own hunting experiences."

 

[twofifty]

If you look at the rotation of the bullet in relation to the forward velocity, you will find that, of course, it spins according to the twist rate of the barrel. For a nominal .30 caliber, with a 1:12 inch twist, the bullet will turn once per foot. As the bullet slows due to air drag, the spin remains relatively constant. However, at more normal ranges (< 300 yards or so), the velocity is still 70% or more of original velocity.

When the bullet strikes its target and mushrooms, the increased radius means that the rate of rotation slows (conservation of momentum). We will still see, allowing for loss of axial velocity and radial velocity, about 1 twist per foot. Considering that a deer is only about a foot or so thick, we're looking at one twist during a passage through the chest cavity. This will be a minor effect.

Some anti-firearms people saw the rotational velocity numbers a few years ago and had a brief flurry of press releases about "bullets ripping through flesh like a buzz saw".

Thank you for posting that.

Yeah, I totally agree that though the RPM numbers are impressive, the flight times are short. And the barrel's twist rate trumps all.

 

[JRH6856]

My copy of “The Hunting Rifle” is so well thumbed the cover has fallen off and the spine is cracked. Mr O’Connor wrote about what he knew, and unfortunately, he never used the 257 Roberts, I would have loved to read his opinion on that cartridge.

O'Connor may not have used a .257 Roberts but his wife and son's did and he thought hightly of it. In The Complete Book of Rifles and Shotguns (1961), he has about 2 pages on hte .257 Roberts. The last paragraph says:

"My wife has used a ,257 for years and my sons began their hunting with it. I have been along when they knocked over at least 50 head of whitetail and mule deet, javelinas and antelope, and I cannot recall a singel animal that ever got away. Most kills on the small Arizona whittail deer were made with one shot. Anyone looking for a fine all-around cartridge that gives good accuracy and light recoil can't go wrong on a .257, that is, if he isn't planning to hunt grizzlies, brown bear, moose or elk. It is as good on varmnts as it is on bigger game."​

 

[JRH6856]

Just how much hold over would you need for a 44mag at 600 yards?

For a 240gr bullet at 1500fps? About 44 ft. Bullet drop is +/- 527 inches.

 

[MrBorland]

I often wonder how many of Keith's shots were made with the typewriter? I read a couple of accounts where he took a mule deer out at 600 yards with an open sighted revolver.

I don't doubt Elmer's account , and it's likely if anyone could hit something with an iron-sighted revolver at 600 yards, it would've been Keith.

The thing is, the short internet versions I keep reading seem to be sanitized versions of Keith's own: By his own account, Keith didn't "take" the mule deer; the guy who originally wounded the deer eventually did. Keith attempted to put down the deer after the other guy wounded it with a poorly-placed rifle shot; and Keith didn't do so with a single shot, nor did those shots result in a clean kill.

 

[shafter]

If a guy has the time, range, and money to practice, making hits at 600 yards isn't impossible. It just takes a lot of skill combined with a bit of guesswork and a lot of luck.

Just because I have no hope of making such a shot doesn't mean someone else can't.

On the other hand, I've known plenty of honest old timers who have embellished a tale quite a bit without even realizing it.