jdmb03
Member
The serial number is engraved on a metal plate that is attached to the under side of the frame. I was told by Kahr that they can't switch out the serial plate and attach it to another frame.
Kahr Durability?
- Thread starter TL1234
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The serial number is engraved on a metal plate that is attached to the under side of the frame. I was told by Kahr that they can't switch out the serial plate and attach it to another frame.
romma
Member
My Kahr PM9 rocks!
I have read alot of people praising Kahr's and never really had an opinion about them because I never shot one. I did this past weekend. It was a polymer .40 cal version, not sure which model. A guy next to me kept having problems with it and said he didnt know what was wrong. The thing jammed every time he fired, it would extract spent casing but not chamber the next round. I took a look at it and fired it and here is my opinion after a few shots...
The polymer felt cheaply made
Recoil was MUCH felt
Hard to control
Not reliable ( I had the same problems he was having)
Slide catch felt extremely loose and breakable
I unloaded it, and then looking inside, the feed ramp look as though it needed serious machining. I showed the owner and he said that he had just bought it and it was the 1st time he shot it. Boy was he disappointed.
I would go with a kel-tec ANY day of the week over a Kahr hands down.
The polymer felt cheaply made
Recoil was MUCH felt
Hard to control
Not reliable ( I had the same problems he was having)
Slide catch felt extremely loose and breakable
I unloaded it, and then looking inside, the feed ramp look as though it needed serious machining. I showed the owner and he said that he had just bought it and it was the 1st time he shot it. Boy was he disappointed.
I would go with a kel-tec ANY day of the week over a Kahr hands down.
innerpiece
Member
my CW9 is my first choice for: ultra-concealable, reliable, accurate..
I wouldnt go to the higher calibers with such compact, lightweight guns tho, me personally.
CW9 is great, got several thousand rds thru mine, functions flawlessly and handles good for me.
IMO its quite sturdy aswell, for a gun thats less than an inch thick!
I dont mind the 7+1 capacity... I hit what I shoot at pretty well.. n I carry a spare mag too.
I have other top choices for compacts, but this thread is about Kahr..
ip.
I wouldnt go to the higher calibers with such compact, lightweight guns tho, me personally.
CW9 is great, got several thousand rds thru mine, functions flawlessly and handles good for me.
IMO its quite sturdy aswell, for a gun thats less than an inch thick!
I dont mind the 7+1 capacity... I hit what I shoot at pretty well.. n I carry a spare mag too.
I have other top choices for compacts, but this thread is about Kahr..
ip.
innerpiece
Member
pcmike.. imo, if ya wanna go a liil bigger than Kahr size... my first and only recommendation would goto the Taurus Millenium Pro series... If my pistol dosent NEED to dissapear, like the Kahr CW9 does.. I pack my PT111SSP MilPro.. 10 or 12 rd mags. chrome lined chamber and feed ramp, 100% reliable like the Kahr, lil cheaper, lil bigger...
each are their own, in their own playground...
I Love them both, I trust mine, and my families lifes with either of them!
If I carry the MilPro, the wife carries the Kahr. if I carry the Kahr, the wife carries the Charter .38spl snubby..
we just find what we are good with.. because that is ALL that really will count when the **** hits the fan......
I recommend everyone do the same..
ip.
each are their own, in their own playground...
I Love them both, I trust mine, and my families lifes with either of them!
If I carry the MilPro, the wife carries the Kahr. if I carry the Kahr, the wife carries the Charter .38spl snubby..
we just find what we are good with.. because that is ALL that really will count when the **** hits the fan......
I recommend everyone do the same..
ip.
denfoote
Member
This represents exactly the reason why I will not own a polymer Kahr!!
The design is still in an extended beta testing phase!!
Besides, I've had an MK9 since before Justin Moon ever thought of getting into the plastic frame business!!
I thought about it...briefly...then rejected the notion on the grounds that I don't want to beta test guns any more!!!
I see no reason to get a specimen of the Kahr "P" series!!
The design is still in an extended beta testing phase!!
Besides, I've had an MK9 since before Justin Moon ever thought of getting into the plastic frame business!!
I thought about it...briefly...then rejected the notion on the grounds that I don't want to beta test guns any more!!!
I see no reason to get a specimen of the Kahr "P" series!!
Cheeseybacon
Member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2006
- Messages
- 246
PM9 sucks
I have to chime in on my experience with the Kahr PM9, er, rather my dad's experience with the PM9. My dad got his permit just a few months ago and then started shopping for a carry weapon. I decided to buy him whatever he chose, sorta as a long overdue birthday present/father's day gift/early Christmas present. I tried to steer him towards a subcompact XD or baby GLOCK, but when he got his hand wrapped around that tiny little Kahr, he was completely sold on it and could not be convinced otherwise.
We both did a little bit of checking on the internet and noticed that the PM9 had a few "teething problems" early in it's production, difficulty chambering the first round, random slide locking, trigger reset issues, barrel peening, etc. From what I read on this forum and several others, Kahr was pretty responsive at resolving everyone's issues and taking care of these quality/production problems. The specific gun my dad intended to buy had a serial number that was not listed anywhere within the batches with known problems. Kahr first introduced the PM9 in 2002, and this gun was manufactured in September of 2006, so we both figured that SURELY all the bugs had been worked out by now, right? Right?!? WRONG!
The PM9 manual stated that the gun should not be considered reliable enough for carry until at least 200 rounds were sent through it to break it in. My dad happily obliged and sent 200 rounds of WWB through it. About 2/3 of the way through, he began having trigger reset issues: the trigger would randomly fail to recock the striker when pulled. The occurance was so erratic, that you could chamber just 1 round and play Russian Roullette with it just as effectly as a revolver, were you to be so foolishly inclined to do so. My dad took it back to Gander Mountain and had the in-house Gunsmith examine it. Two day's later the gunsmith returned the gun, claiming that he shot 100 rounds without any problems and that nothing was wrong with the gun. Despite this, we noticed obvious filing that had occured to metal rails. Why this would be related to trigger reset was beyond either of us. Miraculously enough however, the trigger reset problem appeared to be resolved. My dad was able to put another 300 round through it without issue, and deemed it reliable enough to start carrying. This did not last long however.
Another trip to the range soon revealed other problems. The gun consistantly fails to properly chamber a round when a magazine is inserted while the slide is closed. This might have been a problem all along, but being new to autoloaders, perhaps my dad simply never noticed initially. Eventually though we both came to realize the only reliable way to chamber a round was to insert the magazine while the slide was open. I suspect this is partially due to the unique design of the Kahr magazine, which aligns the top round in the magazine at a different angle from the other rounds. IMO this is a really really poor design. Additionally, the slide would start locking part way through a magazine, and eventually the end of the trigger spring came down through a hole in the frame, viciously stabbing the trigger finger under recoil. Later that day when my dad was cleaning the gun, he noticed significant barrel peening had started. Nasty nasty stuff, to say the least. The barrel is self destructing and my dad made the decision right then and there not to put another round through it until someone looked at it. The plastic rails on the frame are also rough and ragged with lots of flash and loose plastic hanging about, despite lubricating in a manner more suitable to a 1911 than a modern polymer pistol. Also, there's no doubt about it, the plastic on this gun is much much lower quality than a GLOCK or XD. In the short 2 months that my dad had it, the plastic frame has receiver several nicks and indentations, some of which occured simply from laying the gun down on the range bench. My GLOCK26 on the other hand, which has seen more carry time, and more abuse, still looks like new.
All said and done, my dad has put about 650-700 rounds though it, and at the rate it's going, I can't see how it would ever reach the 2500-round service life as someone else stated. It's a shame too, when my dad read the article about the Walther PPS in the latest Guns and Ammo he let out a loud and resounding "DOH!" I read the article too, and it definitely seems like the gun that the PM9 should have been.
Anywho, we are in the process of trying to get in touch with Kahr to see what they can do about this mess. The gunsmith at the local Gander Mountain claims there is nothing wrong with the gun and refuses to assist us further. I wish I could recommend this gun, as it is a delightfully compact little booger that is still chambered in a decent caliber, and of course is American made. Sadly, it seems that quality control still isn't up to snuff with Kahr. I certainly hope, for the sake of Kahr's reputation, that they can resolve these issues. If it were me, I don't think I'd be able to trust it for carry and would probably cut my losses and sell after it comes back from Kahr and put the money towards a Walther PPS. It will be interesting to see what my dad does. Anywho, I just thought I'd throw my own/my dad's personal experiences with the PM9 out there for anyone interested. I wish whoever else buys one a whole truckload of luck!
I have to chime in on my experience with the Kahr PM9, er, rather my dad's experience with the PM9. My dad got his permit just a few months ago and then started shopping for a carry weapon. I decided to buy him whatever he chose, sorta as a long overdue birthday present/father's day gift/early Christmas present. I tried to steer him towards a subcompact XD or baby GLOCK, but when he got his hand wrapped around that tiny little Kahr, he was completely sold on it and could not be convinced otherwise.
We both did a little bit of checking on the internet and noticed that the PM9 had a few "teething problems" early in it's production, difficulty chambering the first round, random slide locking, trigger reset issues, barrel peening, etc. From what I read on this forum and several others, Kahr was pretty responsive at resolving everyone's issues and taking care of these quality/production problems. The specific gun my dad intended to buy had a serial number that was not listed anywhere within the batches with known problems. Kahr first introduced the PM9 in 2002, and this gun was manufactured in September of 2006, so we both figured that SURELY all the bugs had been worked out by now, right? Right?!? WRONG!
The PM9 manual stated that the gun should not be considered reliable enough for carry until at least 200 rounds were sent through it to break it in. My dad happily obliged and sent 200 rounds of WWB through it. About 2/3 of the way through, he began having trigger reset issues: the trigger would randomly fail to recock the striker when pulled. The occurance was so erratic, that you could chamber just 1 round and play Russian Roullette with it just as effectly as a revolver, were you to be so foolishly inclined to do so. My dad took it back to Gander Mountain and had the in-house Gunsmith examine it. Two day's later the gunsmith returned the gun, claiming that he shot 100 rounds without any problems and that nothing was wrong with the gun. Despite this, we noticed obvious filing that had occured to metal rails. Why this would be related to trigger reset was beyond either of us. Miraculously enough however, the trigger reset problem appeared to be resolved. My dad was able to put another 300 round through it without issue, and deemed it reliable enough to start carrying. This did not last long however.
Another trip to the range soon revealed other problems. The gun consistantly fails to properly chamber a round when a magazine is inserted while the slide is closed. This might have been a problem all along, but being new to autoloaders, perhaps my dad simply never noticed initially. Eventually though we both came to realize the only reliable way to chamber a round was to insert the magazine while the slide was open. I suspect this is partially due to the unique design of the Kahr magazine, which aligns the top round in the magazine at a different angle from the other rounds. IMO this is a really really poor design. Additionally, the slide would start locking part way through a magazine, and eventually the end of the trigger spring came down through a hole in the frame, viciously stabbing the trigger finger under recoil. Later that day when my dad was cleaning the gun, he noticed significant barrel peening had started. Nasty nasty stuff, to say the least. The barrel is self destructing and my dad made the decision right then and there not to put another round through it until someone looked at it. The plastic rails on the frame are also rough and ragged with lots of flash and loose plastic hanging about, despite lubricating in a manner more suitable to a 1911 than a modern polymer pistol. Also, there's no doubt about it, the plastic on this gun is much much lower quality than a GLOCK or XD. In the short 2 months that my dad had it, the plastic frame has receiver several nicks and indentations, some of which occured simply from laying the gun down on the range bench. My GLOCK26 on the other hand, which has seen more carry time, and more abuse, still looks like new.
All said and done, my dad has put about 650-700 rounds though it, and at the rate it's going, I can't see how it would ever reach the 2500-round service life as someone else stated. It's a shame too, when my dad read the article about the Walther PPS in the latest Guns and Ammo he let out a loud and resounding "DOH!" I read the article too, and it definitely seems like the gun that the PM9 should have been.
Anywho, we are in the process of trying to get in touch with Kahr to see what they can do about this mess. The gunsmith at the local Gander Mountain claims there is nothing wrong with the gun and refuses to assist us further. I wish I could recommend this gun, as it is a delightfully compact little booger that is still chambered in a decent caliber, and of course is American made. Sadly, it seems that quality control still isn't up to snuff with Kahr. I certainly hope, for the sake of Kahr's reputation, that they can resolve these issues. If it were me, I don't think I'd be able to trust it for carry and would probably cut my losses and sell after it comes back from Kahr and put the money towards a Walther PPS. It will be interesting to see what my dad does. Anywho, I just thought I'd throw my own/my dad's personal experiences with the PM9 out there for anyone interested. I wish whoever else buys one a whole truckload of luck!
Ghost Tracker
Member
Steel framed Kahrs
Poly framed Kahrs :banghead:
My K40 & T9 are EXCELLENT pistols. I've heard WAY too many stories about Poly-framed Kahrs to want one. But, in their defense, I have friends with Poly-framed Kahrs who've enjoyed good luck. I just can't trust "good luck" in a CCW.
Poly framed Kahrs :banghead:
My K40 & T9 are EXCELLENT pistols. I've heard WAY too many stories about Poly-framed Kahrs to want one. But, in their defense, I have friends with Poly-framed Kahrs who've enjoyed good luck. I just can't trust "good luck" in a CCW.
I suspect that most of the ire surrounding the Kahr polymer series is not because they are SUCH trash, but rather that they have enough of a failure rate yet still cost so much.
I had a K9. Loved it except for the trigger, which I could not master. Replaced it with a Glock.
I have a PM9. I like it, and for some reason the trigger does not bother me as much now. Perhaps I've spent enough time on the Glock that a consistent pull isn't as hard now. Regardless, right now the PM9 is the perfect blend for me, but I'll let you know if I change my mind.
jm
I had a K9. Loved it except for the trigger, which I could not master. Replaced it with a Glock.
I have a PM9. I like it, and for some reason the trigger does not bother me as much now. Perhaps I've spent enough time on the Glock that a consistent pull isn't as hard now. Regardless, right now the PM9 is the perfect blend for me, but I'll let you know if I change my mind.
jm
Cheeseybacon
Member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2006
- Messages
- 246
grimjaw said:
I am going to have to agree with you one this one. I could be a lot more forgiving of the flaws in this gun if it didn't cost so freaking much. My dad's PM9 was listed at $699.99, but after taxes, background check, etc, I had shucked out nearly $750 for the damn thing! That's absolute lunacy, what the hell was I thinking?!?! For that price they should be AT LEAST be up to par with your run-of-the-mill $500-550 GLOCK.
Steve 48
Member
My CW9 is a great pistol and shot over 2000 rounds in it with out a single hitch. Steve48
For that price they should be AT LEAST be up to par with your run-of-the-mill $500-550 GLOCK.
Yes, if it was a $200 Keltec, the noise, the CLAMOR, over how TERRIBLE the Kahr is wouldn't be quite as loud. But since it cost SO much, the AGONY over the problems is AMPLIFIED.
jm
Yes, if it was a $200 Keltec, the noise, the CLAMOR, over how TERRIBLE the Kahr is wouldn't be quite as loud. But since it cost SO much, the AGONY over the problems is AMPLIFIED.
jm
[email protected]
member
The plastic Kahrs are on par with the Kel-Tecs. As bad as that sounds, it is the truth. The all steel Kahrs are a different story. They are as good as any gun made. If you keep the recoil spring replaced every 2000rds, they will last a long time.
I think Kahr made a HUGE mistake by introducing the plastic guns. They had a great rep for reliablity and accuracy and quality before the plastic crap came out.
I think Kahr made a HUGE mistake by introducing the plastic guns. They had a great rep for reliablity and accuracy and quality before the plastic crap came out.
SouthpawShootr
Member
There was a gunrag article some months back that started this official low round count service life flap. IIRC, the writer claimed he talked to the manufacturer and they told him that Kahrs have a service life of 3,000 rounds. This caused instant howling from worried Kahr owners. I have 4 of these guns myself and e-mailed their marketing director. He told me that this was an error but didn't provide me with a corrected number. I feel Kahr would best be served if they had a representative at least peruse the Kahr subforum on Glocktalk once a week or so. Maybe post here and there when they can contribute to the discussion. At the very least, they should pubish an erratum on their website stating that this figure is not correct. One of my Kahr, a PM9 is indefinitely on the shelf. Too much bad press about this guns. My particular example choked every now and again, but, to be fair, I haven't really wrung it out yet either. I really would put my money into a Glock if I had to do it again. I have a G26 that has not disappointed me. Cost me nearly $100 less than my PM9.
comeandtakeit
Member.
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2007
- Messages
- 46
I had a PM40 that took a dump on me. Kahr can go 
themselves!!
themselves!!I had a a very early K9, when the steel 9mm was all there was. It fired literally thousands of rounds with nary a hickup. When my sister moved to a bad section of Seattle, the Kahr went with here, and she still has it. Super gun.
I tried the polymer Karhs and can't warm up to them. No issues, but they are too light and lack the great feel of the steel guns. I agree - Kahr made a mistake bringing out the polyler guns.
I tried the polymer Karhs and can't warm up to them. No issues, but they are too light and lack the great feel of the steel guns. I agree - Kahr made a mistake bringing out the polyler guns.
[email protected]
member
"I had a a very early K9, when the steel 9mm was all there was. It fired literally thousands of rounds with nary a hickup. When my sister moved to a bad section of Seattle, the Kahr went with here, and she still has it. Super gun.
I tried the polymer Karhs and can't warm up to them. No issues, but they are too light and lack the great feel of the steel guns. I agree - Kahr made a mistake bringing out the polyler guns."
I really can't stress the difference between the plastic and all steel gun enough. It is like there are two different Kahr comapanies. One makes cheap plastic guns that have lots of problems and the other makes some of the finest all steel pistols you can buy. It is a shame that the plastic Kahrs are ruining the great rep the all steel Kahrs have built.
I wish Kahr would have skipped the plastic guns and made a titanium framed gun. I would pay an extra $100-200 for a titanium Kahr over a plastic one.
I tried the polymer Karhs and can't warm up to them. No issues, but they are too light and lack the great feel of the steel guns. I agree - Kahr made a mistake bringing out the polyler guns."
I really can't stress the difference between the plastic and all steel gun enough. It is like there are two different Kahr comapanies. One makes cheap plastic guns that have lots of problems and the other makes some of the finest all steel pistols you can buy. It is a shame that the plastic Kahrs are ruining the great rep the all steel Kahrs have built.
I wish Kahr would have skipped the plastic guns and made a titanium framed gun. I would pay an extra $100-200 for a titanium Kahr over a plastic one.
Cheeseybacon
Member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2006
- Messages
- 246
Dottie@Kahr
I've seen a lot of people talking about some mystical customer service rep at Kahr named "Dottie" who seems to really get things done. Does anyone have her contact info? I'd like my dad to try going through her first before before going wading through the normal customer service channels...
I've seen a lot of people talking about some mystical customer service rep at Kahr named "Dottie" who seems to really get things done. Does anyone have her contact info? I'd like my dad to try going through her first before before going wading through the normal customer service channels...
Most of the issues with Kahrs seem to be with the polymer models and the .40 polymer models in particular. Based on conversations with some serious guys in the industry, with no ties to any manufacturer, if I ever buy a Kahr, it will be all-metal, in 9mm. My wife's K9 has been 100% reliable, and we have had it a long time. My K9 did not like Cor-bon ammo, but otherwise was 100% reliable. I decided to carry only 1911 pistols in 1997, and sold off my K9 and some other pistols. Now that my duty pistol is a SIG with the DAK trigger, I am considering another K9. K9, not P9. I don't understand this desire for extreme light weight in a carry gun, anyway.
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MrBill120
Member
I like the Kahr. It sits well in my hand. But, just FYI the NYC PD is no longer allowing the K-9 as an off duty firearm. If you have one, you can keep it. But they are no longer authorized for off-duty carry for new purchases.
Kahr had to set up shop at their range and rebuild all of the NYC's K-9s.
Kahr had to set up shop at their range and rebuild all of the NYC's K-9s.
SouthpawShootr
Member
A lot of good it did them. IIRC, the big beef was over consistancy in trigger pull weights. Apparently, as the pistol wore in, the pull became lighter to the point that it was below NYPD minimum threshold standards. Then again I may be remembering wrong. Of course it might be a blessing for the unwashed masses. I believe Kahr expanded far to fast, largely, LE contracts. They began to concentrate more on getting the guns out there rather than building quality guns and providing good customer service. I have several of their stainless guns, two of them early examples. These run great.
MrBill120
Member
There were supposedly more problems than just the trigger pull. I had heard the recoil spring was good up to 500 rnds....after that it was down hill. There was also talk about cracks in the stainless frames, and miss-matched parts.
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