KAHR: The Immaculate Concraption?

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Let's see, religious reasons not to buy Kahr, political reasons not to buy SIG or HK, political reasons not to buy S&W or Ruger, allergies to plastic not to buy Glock, animal rights reasons not to buy Colt, and what maybe a preference for spandex in the board room?
If you don't like a company shop somewhere else. That's the idea behind a free market...lots o' choices!
 
I've been reading about some severe problems with the new Kahrs. Especially the polymer guns. Having said that I have an early example of an MK40 that has never not fired. It is s accurate as many of my full sized guns. And although it's a heavy little sucker it is one of the easiest ccw guns to conceal made The DAO trigger is excellent. Have several friends with early model MK9's that have also been excellent little blasters.
 
All I can say to this is... I absolutely love how MM's wall plug matches his outfit.


(Oh, and paragraphs are your friend, MM!)

.
 
I've been reading about some severe problems with the new Kahrs. Especially the polymer guns.
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If you want
pop bottles,
water bottles,
yogurt containers,
bumpers,
computer monitor frames,
sandal soles,
speaker cabinets
or eye glass frames,
think plastic.

If you want a gun, think steel.

This is not rocket science,
just common sense,
along with material science
+ ballistics.

Plastic is to pop bottle
as steel is to gun.
 
I've been reading about some severe problems with the new Kahrs. Especially the polymer guns.
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I had no problems out of the box with my Kahr P40. I got the PM40 shortly after it came out, mine had a defective mag catch (the metal insert came unbonded with the first magazine removal) that Kahr replaced in two days after I sent them an Email, been fine since.

Just before last Christmas I picked up the significantly cheaper CW9 and it self-destructed the first 25 rounds -- front frame rails warped. Took almost three months to get my gun fixed, but Kahr was very apologetic for the delay and said they'd gotten a batch of bad frames and I'd have to wait until the issue was resolved, they gave me a date when the dealer would have it back and they were 100% correct, the fact my dealer didn't call me like they promised, nor did then know they had it when I called, which is another story.

Bottom line, gun is working very well now, although I did have a few failure to fire (click not bang, all rounds fired on a second try) that seems to have resolved by time I'd finished the third box of ammo.

Neither my P40 nor PM40 needed any "break-in" whereas my CW9 clealy did. We've debated the need for "break-in" in other threads, but clearly it seems many Kahr and Kimber are too tight for reliability out of the box.

If you can conceal a bigger gun then no need to mess with the small stuff, but The PM40 I have in my pocket is worth a lot more than the bigger gun in the safe should the need arise. When you get guns that are very small for their caliber, you just have to accept the margin for error is greatly reduced and a number of them will have issues out of the box, but a reputable maker will make it right. A "full service" dealer is a potential advantage here because they will absorb the shipping cost should it need to go back, although I'd not call my service great, the small premium over gun show prices was a win here -- individuals really get gouged shipping a gun back for repair.

--wally.
 
Appreciate the replies....I just wanted to stir-up the "hornet's nest" a bit...However, there are couple of things that are puzzling. 1st. With this frenzy & obsession with concealibility, where is all this headed with design & ultimately: performance?:scrutiny: 2nd. On these forums, I wonder about people's agendas, including my own, when posting & responding. There seems to be certain pistols that even with their flaws are glossed over lightly while others are deemed a POS...:rolleyes:
Boats: Thanks, I spilled my coffee over myself...:D BTW, the pic is nothing more than a diversionary technique from zeroing in on the Kahr issue..;)
 
Plastic is to pop bottle
as steel is to gun.
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Not necessarily so. The plastic used for soda bottles is gas permiable. That's not a big deal if you're going to consume the soda in a reasonable time frame, but if you store it for several months, it may very well go flat. Glass is where it's at.

OTOH, the 'plastic' frames on my P-9 and H&K USP9c & 45c are just fine after several years and thousands of rounds. FWIW.
 
With this frenzy & obsession with concealibility, where is all this headed with design & ultimately: performance?
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Simple. It leads to better performance in a smaller/lighter, easier to have with you package. The Keltecs, Kahrs, Rorhbaughs, etc. are delivering useful power
in gun size/weight ranges where you were stuck on .25 or .32 not so long ago.

These guns don't need to be fun to shoot, as they will be carried a lot more than they are shot.

--wally.
 
Kahr broke ground 10 years ago that other companies are just now entering.

KelTec has finally announced a single stack 9mm.

Glock has only made one single stack pistol so far (G36) and could probably sell plenty of single stack 9's and 40's if they made them.

Kahr, in my view, took their time to perfect the first pistol, the K9. I have an early model and am still impressed with it. Their only focas is CCW, so why is that a problem? They have a very innovative design that is capable of accuracy and able to handle high pressure loads.

Are they taking advantage of their early success? Sure. Are they over priced? IMO, yes again, just like Glock, Sig, & H&K are over priced. I bought my Kahr's and Glock's on the used market, because I refuse to pay for the advertising.

My P9 will probably be my choice for CCW once I get my permit to carry. Here is what my 1911 loving buddy said about my P9 after putting all 5 shots in the black: "That sure is one accurate little pistol." BTW this buddy is ex-military, trained on the 1911A1, and his carry piece is a Kimber Ultra Carry II, plus he has never owned a DAO pistol.
 
One more pile on here. My ONLY carry gun is both a Kahr and plastic. It's been flawless from the get go. It's the only DAO trigger still in my possession but I find it better than the SW revolver, PT145, and P3AT I "auditioned" for the same role. Accurate enough over distances I'm likely to use it, eats Gold Dot +Ps as long as I'm willing to shoot em (about 1500 or so of them so far - who needs a 30000 rd count in a carry gun - if it's reliable and you can use it well?)

What "options" would you like that a gun with the primary purpose of concealed carry needs? A safety to add time to your draw? A decocker? Yeah that would be useful. Night sights? Has em. Grips? Can get em - the A-Grip works fine for me though.

Wouldn't the best option be something small, light, reliable, capable of firing a potent round, smooth for snag free draws and with a simple manual of arms? Something like, in fact, an out of the box Kahr?
 
I love 1911s too but....

I am capable of thinking for myself thank you , and for me , Kahr is the carry gun , i have two a p9 and the much feared and discussed pm9 , both are flawless .
They do take me back to the old days when i had to learn to shoot a revolver the right way , and i suppose they are unforgiving to limp wristing tho i have not tried to induce failures , i only read the boards and think lol . But the point is i dont need anyone to advise me that a kahr is a public relations hype , mine run , and i have never seen one that wont run , tho i have seen shooters who will not run the little beasts . The original poster seems to have an agenda, as do others , all i can say is if you dont want a moonie gun then spend your hard earned $$ elsewhere , but from thoes of us who find them filling our needs its got to the point of standing in the room between glock fans and 1911 fans , some of the claims are pure bs, i cannot speak to kahr as a company , nor thier customer service , but my kahr came with a feed ramp , my last commander did not . ( yes colt fixed the problem with no issues ) so guys really leave the agenda for the water cooler at the local gun store or at work , there are firearms i dont like too ( glock being one ) but that is me , it is not an excuse to start a crusade to bad mouth them because of my likes or experiance with them .
 
redneckrepairs said:
mine run , and i have never seen one that wont run , tho i have seen shooters who will not run the little beasts .
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kahrbarrel5vi.jpg


Now you've seen a Kahr PM9 that won't run. Or at least the barrel of one. Severe peening after ~200 rounds.
 
I was in a major (the major?) Virginia gun store a couple of weeks ago and asked "Where'd the Kahrs go?"

"They weren't selling so we dropped them."

Oh well, they still have over 4,000 guns for sale.

JT
 
Love my PM9. 850 rds of all types and counting. Excellent accuracy at 15yds and less, packs easy, conceals easy. I can't say enough about it. Simply the best CCW out there unless you pony up for a Rohrbaugh and get it to work right.

And no, mine didn't need a break in whatsoever. ZERO, count them, ZERO malfunctions in 850 rds. Speer, WWB, Remington FMJ, +p, it chews up whatever I put in it.


I know MINE works. That's what matters.
 
With this frenzy & obsession with concealibility, where is all this headed with design & ultimately: performance?

How much performance are you going to get out of a 3" barrel, regardless of the platform? It doesn't matter that my Keltec super duper ultra reliable now you see it now you don't pistol goes bang every time, it still only goes bang with .32ACP. I'm not trying to pick on Keltec, just pointing out that anything that conceals well is going to come with tradeoffs.

I spend more time trying to find the best performing cartridge than I do worrying about the reliability of my K9 (which seems to do well with Remington Golden Saber 124gr).

jmm
 
When I read the review of the P45 in American Rifelman, I thought they were talking about my PT145. The PT145 only cost about 1/2 what the P45 cost and I have not had a single malfunction.
 
When I read the review of the P45 in American Rifelman, I thought they were talking about my PT145. The PT145 only cost about 1/2 what the P45 cost and I have not had a single malfunction.
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I love steel Kahrs and would snap up a K45 in a heartbeat ... but I agree, if I wanted a tiny plastic .45 I'd get the Taurus too.


Now if Kahr would just make a steel 10mm *drool*
 
Now you've seen a Kahr PM9 that won't run. Or at least the barrel of one. Severe peening after ~200 rounds.
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Wow, and I thought my warped front frame rails on my CW9 was bad! Key question is did/will Karh make it right? Every maker lets bad ones slip out from time to time, its what they do to correct it that really defines "quality" IMHO. Kahr did right by me, and well over 200 rounds on the replacement, with no signs of wear on the locking surfaces.

Looks like someone really screwed the pooch on the heat treating of that barrel!

--wally.
 
The frenzy of concealability has a lot to do with the way concealed carry laws are worded and how the public reacts.
In most places, concealed means concealed. Double stacks just aren't as easy to conceal. Glocks (which has had a bigger and more sustained media blitz) are almost all thick.

If you can't accept that handguns are all compromises, then the purpose of any of them will always elude you.
I don't know what you mean by where it is all headed with design. The smaller guns have made new designs necessary. Moreso than other handguns, concealable guns compromise performance for handiness - they are handy to have around. The fact that newer designs can contain more powerful rounds in smaller, lighter packages is comforting to some.
Would you rather be sitting here complaining about how there are no designs suitable for concealbility beyond .22LRs and .32 ACPs?

This is only one aspect of handgun design, aimed at a specific niche market. Given the resources, it seems that most gun-folk would rather have more than one gun and the other is likely to be larger.

Why are some mistakes glossed over while others considered POS's? Because in many companies, not just Kahr, there are production errors in the first run. This isn't just limited to guns. A good company will fix the problems not only in production, but make good to previoius customers.
 
Going to the bookstore, I'll look over (free) the latest gun rags and read practically all their "reviews", if you call them that. What's disturbing is most writers, trying not to show they're complete "ad-lackeys" & wanting to show some impartiality, will use the same excuses for FTF or FTE by saying: "Well, it's an early prototype or production number" or "Need to keep trying different brands of ammo to see what it likes", of course, the most famous contrived words of all:"JUST NEEDS, "BREAKING-IN!":banghead: Folks, I'm not giving any free-pass for a pistol costing $700+...It's driving me MAD!:cuss:
 
Mad Magyar,
How can I argue with a guy that has the balls to wear a white sport coat, skin tight pants and such lovely jewerly?:D

Here is my take on Kahr, they make some of the better pistols on the market and some of the worst. I wouldn't buy another plastic Kahr until they fix the problems that the current line has. OTHO, the all steel pistols are made better than most guns on the market today. When you pick up a K-9, it feels like the way they used to make guns. Pure class and quality.

It is a shame they ever made plastic guns because I know that has hurt their rep. Think of Kahr as two separate companies, one is the plastic Kahr company and one is the all steel company. The all steel company makes some of the best guns on the market, the plastic company makes cheap trash that is only made to make a quick buck. Buy a K-9 and you will be pleased, buy a P-9 and you could be sorry. I hate to bash half of Kahr's guns because I have such high respect for the other half. I own two K-9s and will own a T-9 soon. The T-9 is like an orgy in your palm it feels so darn good!:neener:
 
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