Kel-Tec RFB? Or other light .308?

[epijunkie67]

Anybody here actually shot the Kel-Tec RFB?
http://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/rifles/rfb/

I've been kinda looking for a light, semi-auto, magazine fed, 18" barreled rifle in .308. Sort of a general purpose shooter. I've got an M1A and it's a great gun but it's a bit longer and heavier than I care for and I don't care for the scoping options. I also have a CETME and it's wonderfully accurate, but the charging handle is a bear to work, it's also a little heavy, and my optics mounting options are not great.

The RFB is lighter and has the flat top for optics. Another option would be something like the AR10 in one of the aluminum varients or other light weight options.

Anybody here actually shot the RFB and have an opinion? Other suggestions for light semi-auto 308s?

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

Have you considered an AR 10?

 

[savage1r]

Saiga .308's go for around $600, PSL's for $700-800.

 

[kozak6]

How about a PTR-91 or DSA FAL?

 

[epijunkie67]

"Have you considered an AR 10?"

"Another option would be something like the AR10 in one of the aluminum varients or other light weight options."

Saiga .308's go for around $600

I have wondered about that as well. I've heard decent things about the Saiga 308s. Do the side mounted scope systems add a lot of weight?

 

[Dimis]

I love the design and idea of the RFB but the price prevents me from even thinking about handling one for step two of my purchase ladder
for the price I will get a saiga or AR10 or something else
If Keltec ever drops the price (doubtful) I will consider it

 

[wally]

I love the design and idea of the RFB but the price

Me too, but mine has been back to Kel-Tec three times, it just returned from the third trip. Haven't had a chance to get out with it yet -- looks like they gave me a completely new rifle with the same serial number this time.

I love the way it handles when it works, but the longest I've gone without breakage is about 148 rounds

Details here:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=609288&highlight=rfb


Take a look at the DPMS LAR-308, it has a flat top. The AR10 is fine too but costs more and mags are pricer for it too. Magpul makes mags for the DMPS .308 (and the others that use this pattern). The scope mounting options for the Saiga aren't a whole lot better than for your CETME.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

"Another option would be something like the AR10 in one of the aluminum varients or other light weight options."

I really need to stop posting late at night.

 

[Quiet]

How about the FN SCAR-17S?

DPMS LR-308L = 7.9 lbs
FN SCAR-17S = 8.0 lbs
Kel-Tec RFB (18" barrel) = 8.1 lbs
DSA SA-58 Carbine (18" barrel) = 8.35 lbs
RAAC Saiga-308 (16" barrel) = 8.5 lbs
DSA SA-58 standard = 8.75 lbs
Springfield Armory M-1A with synthetic stock = 8.8 lbs
Springfield Armory M-1A with wood stock = 9.3 lbs
JLD PTR-91F = 9.5 lbs
DPMS LR-308B = 9.65 lbs
Century Arms CETME = 9.7 lbs
LMT MWS-308 = 9.98 lbs
DPMS LR-308 = 11.20 lbs

 

[TIMC]

I own one and like it. I had one issue with when it was new but since I have put almost 1k rounds through it with no issues. The rifle does weigh less than my AR10 but not by much and I do prefer the AR10 over the RFB.
I ALS find the RFB difficult to get comfortable with in the bench; it just doesn't seem to fit as well as the AR10 but I do like to get out and play with it once on a while.

 

[epijunkie67]

I've always been kind of interested in the Saiga but realistically it looks like my best option would be one of the light Stoner based 308s. I'm familiar with the manual of arms, they seem to have the best optics mounting options, and and they best meet the criteria I have laid out.

Which is a shame because I also just really like the Saiga. I've never shot one but they seem like a great value. Still, I have a suspicion that even if I got one and liked it I'd still want an AR10 variant.

 

[Ranger30-06]

The Saiga is only worth going for if you are going to convert it. It has a god awful factory trigger and isn't balanced at all. It is also heavy all loaded up, and yes, a scope adds more weight than most scopes usually add because of the mount style.


The plus side though is an indestructible .308 that has about 1/3 of the recoil of a normal .308 because of the weight and recoil system.

 

[henschman]

A .308 AR won't save you any weight over an M1A, with a barrel with comparable length and weight. Neither will a FAL or G-3 variant... in fact, they will usually be heavier. The only semi .308s I know of that are lighter than an M1A are the Kel Tec RFB, the Saiga .308, and the FN SCAR 17.

The Saiga scope mounts don't really add any more weight than a scope mount would add on any of the other rifles, whether you're talking a one-piece mount on an AR or RFB, a dust cover mount on a FAL, a claw mount on a G-3, or a receiver mount on an M1A.

Another thing you might consider is a lighter stock on your M1A. I don't know what kind you currently have, but I have one of Springfield Inc.'s newer-model black plastic stocks, which they are putting on all of their newer Standards. My rifle is noticeably lighter than my friends' rifles in GI fiberglass or wood stocks. Mine weighs out at 8.4 lbs., including an ARMS #18 scope mount. Without the mount it would probably be as light as a Saiga. I find it very manageable with iron sights... but it gets a little hefty with the scope and adjustable cheek riser installed.

 

[Tirod]

".308" does not equal "light." It's exactly why the military moved to intermediate cartridges, which results in a 1 1/2 pound lighter gun. Tricked out equally, the intermediate gun is always lighter.

Back to square one, what kind of work does the bullet have to do? Ranges, and targets? That's what determines the caliber, grain weight, and amount of powder behind it. A .308 can handle game up to elk and moose, bear in a pinch, and reach out past 600m. Is that going to happen with the new "Light" rifle?

Define the task the new rifle needs to do by what range and target, then narrow down what cartridges do that without preconception or tilting the scales. I was a .308 guy from the '70's, and as time went by, the need for it in battle or hunting became better understood. I sold the HK91, put the .30-06 in the closet, and now use an AR15 in 6.8SPC. The cartridge ( along with others,) will put out over 1000 foot pounds of force far beyond the typical 300m max ranges I'll ever see hunting whitetail in edge woodland. I made a new choice.

To get into the 7 pound semi auto rifle class, it's going to take stepping away from the battle rifle cartridges and moving to an intermediate.

 

[henschman]

Yeah when militaries worldwide have been using the 6.8 SPC for decades and I can get it surplussed in sealed battle packs for $.35/round, I might consider switching too.

Till then its 5.56 for my shorter-ranged stuff, and 7.62 for my longer ranged stuff.

 

[Girodin]

I love the design and idea of the RFB but the price

I love the design and idea of the RFB, but the execution.

 

[henschman]

In another thread I came to the conclusion that you could get down near 7 lbs. with an M1A if you used an 18/18.5" barreled model in a SAI plastic stock. That means the M1A, at least in that stock, is actually a lighter weight platform than the RFB when you give it the same length barrel.