Kimber and general 1911 questions

[nico]

I got to handle a Kimber Gold Match yesterday (I mentioned it here) and the gun got me thinking about a few things. The manager at the shop said that there isn't much of a difference between a Custom and a Gold Match, and Kimber's web site doesn't seem very informative. What exactly is the difference between the two models? Also, what differentiates a base (GI) model 1911 from the higher end guns? Finally, I realize this is probably blasphemy, but I have a lot more experience shooting 9mm than .45, and that and the fact that the bulk .45 I've seen is twice the price is of 9mm a big downside to the 1911. What are the options for a more economical caliber 1911 (or is there a place to get bulk FMJ .45 for less than $80 for 300)? I've seen them offered in 9mm, .38 super (which I know nothing about), and .40 S&W. How do the .38 super and .40 S&W compare to 9mm in terms of recoil and price? I've searched on here and 1911 forum and people mention feeding problems with 9mm and .40. Can someone explain why that is. Any other tips or comments would be greatly appreciated, since I'll have plenty of time to think about a purchase before I have the money to buy one.

Sorry for asking questions that I'm sure are repetitive. But, like I said, I searched here and on 1911 forum and searching for "kimber" and/or "1911" seemed to be like searching for "car" and "Chevy" on Autotrader. I got over 20 pages of results.

 

[halvey]

The Gold match has a fitted barrel and bushing and adjustable sights. I get honest 1" groups at 25 yards from a rest with my GM. That said, I can't outshoot a standard Kimber anyway.

If you don't want to pay high $$$ for .45, get a reloading press. If you don't want to reload, well, then your stuck paying a lot for ammo.

 

[45auto]

The Gold Match has adjustable sights and ambi safeties for one.
Apparently, the bbl is hand fitted in the custom shop, so it should be more accurate than the custom.

The series I Gold Match that I shot a fair amount was a very good gun, accurate, good trigger, polished blued...well done. At that time, I think they sold for @$950 and I thought it was a good buy if you want most everything "out of the box".

Kimber has changed quite a bit with their external extractors and firing pin safeties, so I have no experience with the new ones to be honest.

Basically, the "GI" type models don't have extended beavertails, safeties, better sights, etc.

Kimber and Springfield both sell 9mm 1911's if you like that caliber better. For a 45, bring money or start reloading...if you shoot a lot. I don't own a 9mm yet, and I will, but I understand the right magazine and a little "tweaking" and they will run fine.

I'd pass on the 38 Super if you don't reload and don't see the point of a 40 in a singlestack IMHO.

 

[Maddock]

Can’t answer about the different Kimbers, but 45ACP is made for reloading. It is one of the simpler cartridges to reload with lots of load development.
Ammoman has Fiocchi hardball for $219/1000 shipped.

 

[stans]

I bought a lightly used series I Gold Match Stainless and with Winchester USA white box 230 grain FMJ it will, if I do my job, keep all of the shots in the X ring of an N.R.A. bullseye target at 25 yards. I wonder what it will do with match grade ammo?

As for affordable shooting, I reload, so 45 ACP is not a problem, but then neither is 10mm! For the non-reloader, 9mm is sure the cheapest, maybe not the most accurate, but very cheap. 40 S&W would be the next cheapest. 38 Super and 10mm are not synonomous with cheap, so for these calibers reloading is your best bet.

 

[photo_guy]

I can't comment on the Kimber questions as I do not own any (yet).


If you are looking for ecconomy in ammo you have two options (in general)
: 1) reload 2) 9mm. Personally, I do both.

There are 9mm 1911a1's out there which allow you to shot lots of the 9mm ammo that is out there for cheap. This is also a good option for steel plate competitions and general plinking. The 9mm can be very accurate but it sometimes requires some work to get there. I have a Colt 1911a1 in 9mm that started out being poor for accuracy (and reliability for that matter) but after some barrel and bushing fitting became one of the more accurate guns I own.

That said, there is a lot to be said for reloading above and beyond the cost savings. You have the ability to tune your load to your gun. you'd be surprised how much difference it can make. You can also produce light target rounds that you would not be able to buy at your local Wallyworld. There is something satisfying about "rolling your own" and producing better performance while saving money at the same time. Reloading requires some initial investment, some learning, and some time but it can be fun.

 

[cerberus]

Custom TLE II

There is nothing wrong with the Kimber Custom TLE II it's all steel and has night sights. I really like mine it's the first ones that still use the internal extractor. But I have two other Kimbers with external extractors and all three of my Kimbers work great. I would never buy a 1911 in 9mm it's a 45 gun and that is what one should have in a 1911. I had a 9mm once and for plinking at range thats all it's was good for. Never felt it was a good choice for defence. Give the Custom in 45acp a real good look.

 

[Zach S]

Regarding the feeding problem with 9mm and .40, I think the OAL of the ammo is too short. I seem to recall some people saying they loaded it longer to cure the problem. It makes sense to me, since the 9mm is basicly a shortened .38super (or is the .38S a longer 9mm?), and the .40 a shortened 10mm.

 

[Fly320s]

About ammo prices:

.45 can be found fairly cheap online and at Wal-Mart. Yesterday I bought 2 boxes of Winchester USA 230gr FMJ .45 for $19.99/100rnds. That's $60/300 + tax, which meets your request.

.40SW is a bit cheaper, but not much. 9mm is nearly given away these days. .38Super isn't used much except in competition so it cost somewhat more.

As for the recoil, bigger ammo equates to bigger kick for the most part.

 

[nico]

Thanks for all the comments. I think I've come back to earth and relized that I'd have to win the lottery or sell a kidney to be able to justify paying a kimber-esque price for a gun any time soon. I've looked a little at the Springfield GI model on their website. What do you guys think of it? I've looked through some of 1911Tuner's writeup about his GI model and it seems like a good gun for the money. If I bought one, would it be all that difficult to add an extended beavertail and maybe nicer sights and trigger, assuming I wasn't happy with the factory parts? Are there any other upgrades that I'd want to do right away for reliability or ergonomic reasons? Is there any major downside to buying a GI model as a plinking gun (my life won't depend on it and even if I ever did shoot a competition with it, it's not like I'm trying to win a national championship)? I know that the quality isn't going to be equivalent to a $1000 gun, but is it worth the money, or would I be better off buying a CZ and waiting a while to buy a higher quality 1911?
What about the Loaded model? A few people on another site suggested checking it out, and it looks pretty nice, but what price range does it sell for?

 

[sfhogman]

Interesting. I've had a Springfield Loaded for about four years now. It's accurate, never chokes, and is the gun that always goes to the range with me. I don't know what they sell for nowadays.
That said, I recently shot a CZ97B and was impressed enough that I ordered one. Very nicely made, and in my hands, very easy to shoot well. About $600 in the SF Bay Area.

The best possible accessory for either of these guns is a Dillon RL550B, IMNSHO.....
Jeff

 

[Jspy]

I say if you like the 1911 style, then by all means try to find one in 9MM and you have the advantage of cheaper ammo prices. Are there better, cheaper, etc. choices....of course. Thats the nice thing about 9mm's, all kinds of choices. To me its not a caliber choice, but choosing a platform for launching said caliber.

 

[stans]

Springfield usually builds a nice 1911. Their current GI reproduction may need a new ejector and some need a new extractor, but they are a great value and if you get one that ejects reliably, then you really don't have to replace any parts. The GI usually sells for $400 to $450, new!

 

[9mmepiphany]

the 1911 action/lenght of slide travel is designed around the .45 acp cartridge. while it will work with the shorter 9mm, the slide travel is excessive, the mag needs a spacer and the jump from mag lips to chamber is longer. the grip is also longer than it needs to be, from front to back. this is offset somewhat by the narrower grip, from side to side (when compare to double stack 9mm's).

when folks prefer the 9mm, i always recommend a platform designed to take advantage of that rounds smaller demensions

 

[silent one]

nico,
Do yourself a favor, and buy a Springfield up graded Mil-Spec. It is very similar to the G.I. version, with the exception of having the larger ejection port, three dot high sights, and doesn't have the lanyard loop. This model will cost approx $30.00 to $50.00 more than the G.I. model. I have both models, but shoot the up graded model much more than the G.I. model. I paid $400.00
+ tax for the G.I., and $439.00+tax, for the up graded model. Once you own it, take it to the range and shoot the hell out if it. If there are any changes you want to make, do so after you have used it for awhile. I found after using mine, the only changes I made, was to replace the recoil spring after 5,000 rounds, and changed the grips. Believe me, they are a great weapon for the money. As far as ammo goes, you can get 230 gr, FMJ Sellier & Bellot
from www.natchezss.com, for $8.25 a box + shipping. They are about the cheapest I have found, and they are nice people to deal with. "good luck"


SILENT ONE

 

[VG]

Don't buy a USGI replica unless you really want the ex-military look. The sights are small and all the changes made to newer civilian M1011A1 clones make them easier to fire accurately.

 

[nico]

Silent One and VG, that's pretty much what I was thinking. I didn't notice the Mil-Spec model on their site until after I made my last post. I went to the range today and shot a Kimber Gold Match. It was pretty nice, but I didn't want to spend a ton of money on ammo so I only put 50 rounds through it. By the time I ran out of ammo, I was shooting better with it than with my S&W 910 (alloy frame 4" barrel 9mm). It even seemed to have recoil pretty comparable to the S&W. The gun was very nice, but realistically I don't think I shoot well enough to really notice much of a difference between a Mil-Spec and the Gold Match. I think I definitely have a Mil-Spec in my future.