sevt_chevelle
Member
UuUu3 is putting a very inconsiderate damper on our attempts to prepare for SeeUu2.
The English version.
UuUu3 is putting a very inconsiderate damper on our attempts to prepare for SeeUu2.
Agree!^^^, 100%. This is why I buy components and handload. F shortages.When big events happen, be they another battle in the land of never-ending conflict or some loser blows his cork and shoots up a bowling alley, there will be folks running to the gun store and spending next months rent money on ammo.
Happens. Every. Time.
Hopefully things settle again soon and the hoopla quiets down.
Stay safe.
You can leave contracts in place (not cancelled) and boot deliveries into the next decade due to gubmint demands coming first.
Huh?This. People are far too quick to believe whatever the "debunkers" or "fact checkers" spew out to obfuscate what is really going on. Very possible to claim they are still selling to the US market in theory while making it effectively non-existent. Much like how in the US people can "own machine guns" in theory but practically speaking they cannot.
So, a report FROM lake City is a "fact checker"? They ARE the source, amigo. And yes, I can own a machinegun in my state if I want to save up the scratch to get one. In fact, I could carry my legally owned machinegun concealed without a permit...This. People are far too quick to believe whatever the "debunkers" or "fact checkers" spew out to obfuscate what is really going on. Very possible to claim they are still selling to the US market in theory while making it effectively non-existent. Much like how in the US people can "own machine guns" in theory but practically speaking they cannot.
Huh?
If you got the $$$$, you can buy a machine gun.
If you got the $$$$, you can buy a Lexus.
Sure, you have a wait for the Form 4 approval, but "practically speaking" you sure as heck can buy a machine gun.
I disagree. How about instead of a Lexus, it's a Delorean?False analogy. New Lexus cars can be entered into the market, no new Machine Guns can.
Its not about the $, merely being expensive is not a reason something is not practicably available.
Its the fact that government regulations prohibit the manufacture of new goods which creates artificial scarcity.
While what you say is factually correct, from a practical standpoint, how would someone making $20/hr ever afford a machine gun? The limited supply has of course driven price to a point that an average person simply will never to be able to own one.I disagree. How about instead of a Lexus, it's a Delorean?
You claimed "Much like how in the US people can "own machine guns" in theory but practically speaking they cannot."
That's factually incorrect. Americans CAN own machine guns. Period.
That no new fully transferables are being made doesn't affect the transferability of existing machine guns.
How would someone making $20 an hour afford anything?While what you say is factually correct, from a practical standpoint, how would someone making $20/hr ever afford a machine gun? The limited supply has of course driven price to a point that an average person simply will never to be able to own one.
I think you are missing the point. Some things are expensive and out of the reach of the average person. Machine guns were not one of those things. Price was driven up by government interference with the market. It’s not a ban, but it’s definitely government manipulation to keep those firearms out of the hands of common people.How would someone making $20 an hour afford anything?
If you want a bigger income to afford toys......get a second job. I did.
$20 an hour X 20 hours per week x 50 weeks is $20K.
There are several fully transferrables on GunBroker with "Buy Now" for under $20K
Practical enough?
No, I think you are missing the point.I think you are missing the point. Some things are expensive and out of the reach of the average person. Machine guns were not one of those things. Price was driven up by government interference with the market. It’s not a ban, but it’s definitely government manipulation to keep those firearms out of the hands of common people.
Ok. I see what you are saying now. Our difference of opinion here is that you think it doesn't matter if the government manipulates the market of an item protected under the Second Amendment.No, I think you are missing the point.
The claim was "Much like how in the US people can "own machine guns" in theory but practically speaking they cannot."
Practically speaking......they sure as heck can and do buy expensive firearms. While their income may impact their ability to afford a $15,000 toy it is legal for them to purchase.
Whether they are out of reach of the average person has nothing to do with anything. In theory and practically, any American that can legally possess a firearm can also posses a machine gun.
Whether it's government manipulation, interference, "artificial scarcity" or supply and demand causing the high price......it doesn't matter. They are for sale. If the statement was " Much like how in the US people can own an Accuracy International ASR rifle kit" in theory but practically speaking they cannot" is just as dumb. It's an $18000 rifle. "Can own" is not the same as "can afford to own".
What would a machine cost without government manipulation and scarcity? Something close to an average semi auto firearm? Say $1000 vs $$18,000? Serious question.
No, you got that wrong too.Ok. I see what you are saying now. Our difference of opinion here is that you think it doesn't matter if the government manipulates the market of an item protected under the Second Amendment.
Virtually no difference.What would a machine cost without government manipulation and scarcity? Something close to an average semi auto firearm? Say $1000 vs $$18,000? Serious question.
Yes you are right. They are for sale. But with closure of the machine gun registry by federal law, prices skyrocketed. The number of people who want to own one far exceeds the supply. While the government did not ban machine guns, the market manipulation amounts to a de facto ban from a practical standpoint because supply is now so limited. I get what you are saying. There is no law against owning a machine gun, as long as it is registered. Hard to believe you don't see mandatory registration and market manipulation as a 2nd amendment issue. But ok...No, you got that wrong too.
You know darn well that's not how I think. This isn't a Second Amendment discussion, it's one of what words mean.
Again, "Can own" is not the same as "can afford to own".
"Can own" refers to the legality.
"Can afford to own" refers to ones ability to afford the purchase.
Again, whether it's government manipulation, interference, "artificial scarcity" or supply and demand causing the high price......it doesn't matter. They are for sale.
The government "manipulates the market" via taxes, regulation, price supports and production quotas in many areas of commerce, not just machine guns. It does affect the price to the consumer.
What it doesn't affect is the legality.....so "practically speaking" it is legal to own a machine gun.
Which was the point of my replies to "Much like how in the US people can "own machine guns" in theory but practically speaking they cannot."Yes you are right. They are for sale.
Which doesn't have anything to do with the legality of owning a machine gun.But with closure of the machine gun registry by federal law, prices skyrocketed. The number of people who want to own one far exceeds the supply.
Nonsense.While the government did not ban machine guns, the market manipulation amounts to a de facto ban from a practical standpoint because supply is now so limited.
So practically speaking, you actually agree?I get what you are saying. There is no law against owning a machine gun, as long as it is registered.
Oh please. You know that's not my belief nor is it the point of this discussion. As a life long Second Amendment advocate I believe all gun laws are unconstitutional. But those laws until ruled unconstitutional I must abide by.Hard to believe you don't see mandatory registration and market manipulation as a 2nd amendment issue. But ok...
Are Rolexes too expensive for the average person to afford because they're more desirable than other watches because of quality? Or because of a ban on the supply and a tax?You call it a "defacto ban" purely based on the expense. If that's what "too damn expensive for me to afford" is, then there is a de facto ban on Wagu steaks, Rolex watches, Beretta shotguns and giant SUV's.
That's ludicrous.
It matters not one bit why the price is the price.Are Rolexes too expensive for the average person to afford because they're more desirable than other watches because of quality? Or because of a ban on the supply and a tax?
Come to me with that argument when a Timex costs $1000, because of a tax and a ban on new watches
So the 1994 assault weapons ban wasn't a ban? Even the gun banners said it was a ban.It matters not one bit why the price is the price.
Machine guns may be legally bought, legally possessed.
Come to me when that isn't true.