LEOs outa control?

[dfaugh]

First let me say that until recently, I have the utmost respect for LEOs and the difficult job they do. I've know many over the years, expecially K-9 officers, as I used to train dogs. Also met many through other avenues. Even have a cousin who was State Trooper, now retired.

However, events in recent months have shaken my faith in at least some of the officers out there.

Recent cases in point:

I was stopped a while ago, and issued a ticket BECAUSE THE OFFICER SAID THE WINDOW TINT ON MY CAR WAS TOO DARK...AND AN ADDITIONAL TICKET FOR EXHAUST TOO LOUD. Now, the windows have been tinted that way for 5 years, and the exhaust(also that way for 5 years), while not "stock" is no louder than "normal" for this model (older Firebird, of which I've owned 5). In fact it was probably quieter that the '87 Formula V-8 I once owned. Additionally, the window tint was less dark than, for example, the FACTORY tint on my sisters almost new car. (You could look in from one side and see through to anything happening on the other side of the car..In Short, it wasn't very dark) Also, note that I was travelling on an expressway, at EXACTLY the speed limit in an area where most everyone does at least 10+ mph over the limit, I was was being passed regularly). Don't you think a warning woulda been sufficient?

Case 2; My eldest son was stopped at a stoplight, where he's under an underpass, and traffic is exiting an expressway...the exit is NOT visible, except for the last 100 ft or so, when you are stopped at the light. So, a Sheriff comes up through traffic, from behind, lights and siren...My son simply held position, as to move in any direction would be dangerous, especially risking collision from traffic coming down the off ramp(who couldn't see/know there was a police car coming into intersection)...Officer (who you'd expect was on an important call, as he was using lights and siren) STOPPED and gave him a ticket for failing to get outa the way. Once again, at most a warning should be sufficient....I know the interesection well, and understand why he wouldn't/couldn't move.

AND, to top it all off my youngest son, got a ticket last night, BECAUSE HE THREW A CIGARETTE BUTT OUT THE WINDOW..Sheesh...Now, for example,his car (and the one I'm now driving for example) don't have ashtrays (they're no longer "standard equipment")...Ok, so maybe this isn't cool (although they ARE biodegradable, unlike alot of junk people throwout their windows, like Fast food wrappers, etc.)...But to issue a ticket, instead of a warning?

Am I overreacting, or is this getting ridiculous?

Comments for LEOs welcome!

 

[Risasi]

Outa control?

For the most part no. You get some nasties every once in awhile. And there is this disturbing creep of police state like behavior.

Frankly if police would treat people with civil discourse, and vice versa we probably wouldn't hear much about it.

 

[pythonguy]

If a police car or ambulance is behind you and lights and siren are on, its the LAW to move over, blame the legislators who wrote and passed the law. If it was one of our family members that was in need of help I'm sure YOU wouldn't want anyone blocking them in.

 

[buzz_knox]

Frankly if police would treat people with civil discourse, and vice versa we probably wouldn't hear much about it.

Bingo! It's a rather vicious cycle in which each group feels slighted by the other, and gets more antagonistic, which leads to more slights, more antagonism, etc.

Of course, we need to get rid of the public's attitude that being penalized for having violated the law is somehow the cop's fault and not your own, as well as the idea that the police are there to protect you, rather than society. We also need to get rid of the "cops aren't civilians" and "if you ain;t blue, you're nothing" attitudes on the other side.

 

[pax]

AND, to top it all off my youngest son, got a ticket last night, BECAUSE HE THREW A CIGARETTE BUTT OUT THE WINDOW..Sheesh...Now, for example,his car (and the one I'm now driving for example) don't have ashtrays (they're no longer "standard equipment")...Ok, so maybe this isn't cool (although they ARE biodegradable, unlike alot of junk people throwout their windows, like Fast food wrappers, etc.)...But to issue a ticket, instead of a warning?

Every year, hundreds of thousands of acres in the western United States are devastated by wildfires. More than half of those fires are started by selfish, stupid, short-sighted idiots throwing their cigarette butts out their car windows.

Your kid was lucky to get only a ticket, instead of a bill for a gajillion dollars' worth of damages -- or a criminal charge of Negligent Manslaughter.

Keep your butt in the car while you're driving.

pax

What people commonly call fate is mostly their own stupidity. -- Arthur Schopenhauer

 

[ravinraven]

The question is...

... if this LEO was in enuf of a hurry to have lights and sireeeen going, how does he have time to stop and write out a ticket?? Did someone bleed to death while the guy was bagging bucks for the county?

The LEO could have taken his number and tracked him down later.

There was an article in one of the scandal sheets around here last summer about a bank robber who was allowed to work unmollested because all the state cops who were called to bust up his party refused to leave a lucrative traffic ticket fest. Huh?

Remember. About 99% of traffic laws are created and/or enforced for the purpose of raising funds for some gov't entity or other.

Here's how strange the busts for bucks racket is up here: A village up the road was building a new municipal HQ building. The police orifice and jail were old. The idea was to incorporate the cop house into the new muni building. Extra cost. What to do? At a board meeting, a citizen suggested that they step up village speed limit enforcement to raise the extra funds for the new cop house. NO ONE hooted him down. Instead, some made suggestions about where to set up the traps.

No one asked the obvious question. If you're speeding, does that mean you support the cop's efforts? If you are obeying the "law" does that mean that you do not support the cops?

Busts for bucks will only increase as people of lower and lower self-respect and personal pride get into the LEO business.

rr

 

[ctdonath]

Overreacting.

Excessively tinted windows are illegal in some jurisdictions, as they demonstrably reduce driver visibility.
Excessively noisy mufflers are illegal in some jurisdictions, as they contribute to noise pollution and disturb the peace.
That you got away with both for so long is more an argument that LEOs are lenient, than actually getting ticketed for violating actual laws is is one that LEOs are out of control.

Practically every road has a shoulder. When emergency vehicles approach from behind, get on it. Rare is the case where you truly can't get out of the way, or at least show an attempt to do so.

Littering is illegal. The world is not your ashtray. If you smoke, and you don't have an ashtray, either get an ashtray or don't smoke. The cleanest roadsides I've seen are in an area where roadside littering garners a $25,000 fine - go figure.

It's the law. Don't be surprised when it's enforced. Following some laws doesn't get you off the hook for violating others. Getting convicted for violating a law is not unreasonable.

(If the law is unconstitutional, that's a different story...)

 

[Zach S]

Case 2: Is there a traffic light at the end of the off ramp? If someone coming down the ramp has time to stop at the light, they have time to stop for a vehicle blocking the ramp while letting a cop by.

 

[zahc]

eh, sometimes you don't get cops that are nice enough to give you a warning. It sucks but at least you didn't get searched or property seized. The amount of stuff the cops CAN do to you is pretty scary and actually, if you got off with tickets you probably got off easy.

The world is not your ashtray

Modest mouse reference?

 

[mfree]

Save a ticket and a wildfire and give your kid a scrubbed-out soup can.

 

[El Tejon]

LEOs out of control as a general rule? Nah, cops are human like anyone else. Bad days, someone else got promoted, eltee picking on them, prosecutor made them wait in hallway for hours at trial yesterday, the kids, the wife, El Tejon, inter alia.


If anyone is out of control is it Congress and the state legislatures. Enough with the laws, would ya?!?!

 

[RealGun]

Am I overreacting, or is this getting ridiculous?

Comments for LEOs welcome!

This is the same style of post used to stir a pot on other threads. It always comes from a subscriber with a low post count. A trademark of the style is to dignify the person or group to be attacked and then inviting attack. No defining personal opinion is ever offered, only a rhetorical question. The principle in question is always represented in the third person, never acknowledged as the poster's personal opinion.

It's one thing to be undecided, but my best guess is that the poster is fishing for radical responses to discredit.

I believe the similarities mean that the same person is posting under multiple subscriber IDs.

 

[Alex45ACP]

Just be glad you didn't have a coffee can in your car.

 

[buzz_knox]

Just be glad you didn't have a coffee can in your car.

I was waiting for someone to say that.

 

[Don Gwinn]

Yeah, because after someone points out that things are being "stirred up," the most important thing to do immediately is "stir up" some more "stuff." Bonus points if it has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.

This guy got tickets for doing things that are illegal in his state, NOT an illegal search on the basis of having a coffee can in his car. Let's get a grip.


Honestly, did you really think it was OK to litter? And if so, did you really think the reason it's OK to throw your cigarette butts out all over the place is that there's no ashtray in your car? There's no trash can in my car, but I still keep my trash in it and throw it away when I get home. It's not rocket science.

Also, I did not know that cigarette butts are biodegradeable. Can someone confirm that? If they are, they must get thrown on the ground even more than I thought.

 

[Vernal45]

Just be glad you didn't have a coffee can in your car.

 

[HankB]

THE OFFICER SAID THE WINDOW TINT ON MY CAR WAS TOO DARK...AND AN ADDITIONAL TICKET FOR EXHAUST TOO LOUD.

Hmmm . . . did he have an instrument to measure the density of the window tint and the loudness of the exhaust? Does the law in your jurisdiction establish limits? If not, he was just being a jerk, and this should be easy to fight.

In the case of your son not pulling out against the light into what sounds like busy traffic . . . this should be easy to fight, too. Moving out of a cop's way doesn't require suicide.

In the third case . . . well, don't litter.

 

[fjolnirsson]

Are a lot of cops out of line?
IMO, yes. Mostly because the courts and employers are contributing to a certain mindset and enforcement style.
What about the above incidents?

Well, I have window tinting on both of my cars. I put it in when I lived in CA. I don't like the heat, for one, and both my vehicles have a lot of window space in ratio to the size of the cab. It saves gas, because I don't use the AC as much. I discovered an added benefit. People can't see in as well. I realize this might make police uncomfortable, but with the rash of random shootings in CA, I feel it's important to my family. My tint was darker than is legal in CA, but lighter than most factory tint.
I knew if I got pulled over, I would get a ticket and have to remove it. It was an illegal circumstance of my making, and if cited, I would have been irritated, but that's life. FWIW, while in the police academy, our personal vehicles were inspected for registration and safety hazards. No complaints about my tint. Guess it depends on the situation. Regardless, was the cop out of line? I'd say no. Maybe having a bad day, as El Tejon suggested, but within his bounds entirely.

Keep your butts in your car. It's called littering, and it's disgusting. Napa and Kragen's, as well as other auto chains, sell litter containers you can keep in your car. Not to mention the wildfire issue Pax spoke of.

The intersection thing, I don't know. Hard to judge, from the facts given. However, in most cases, I'd say just move the car.

 

[2nd Amendment]

Are they outta control? No. Are they getting that way? You betcha. What keeps LEO as a composite group in control now is the common sense and experience of our older officers. As they retire watch the extremism leap ahead at an insane pace. It's not a police state yet but it will be very much like one soon enough.

For those who disagree, well, ignorance is bliss.

 

[dolanp]

Well the first two seem a little over the top. I think LEOs get a hard-on for writing people who they think are 'street racers' tickets. It is the vehicle version 'assault weapon', all about silly features. Big exhaust, stripes, big wing, tint, things like that will get you special attention from the cops.

As for the cigarette he deserved that one. I wish more LEOs would ticket people for littering instead of minor traffic infractions.

 

[A Cleaner]

[deep breath]

Cigarette filters are biodegradable. Only problem is it takes 18 months to 10 years depending on the specific filter material (usually cellulose acetate, a form of plastic) and the weather in the region where one is littering.

Beyond that, portable ashtrays specifically made for cars rarely exceed $10 in cost. Then, there are the fire and wildlife issues. Then, there is the fact that littering is a crime. Here in the great state of Indiana, throwing that same butt out the car window is punishable with a fine up to $10,000. A minor ticket is a blessing compared to that.

Regarding both sons' encounters, obeying the law has a tendency to help one avoid tickets. Regarding pop's windows and exhaust, not justifiable unless state law allows officers the right to arbitrarily discern tint darkness and exhaust volume without measurement or documentation.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Not an LEO, but of the three incidents you cited, #1 and #3 sound to me like police doing their job.

#1: Some states are different, but where I live NO tint is allowed on the front door windows of motor vehicles. I doubt that your sister's car has front door windows tinted darker than yours, because the manufacturers don't tint the front door windows. Sounds like you've been breaking the law for 5 years and you're upset because you finally got caught.

#2: This one sounds like a judgment call. Maybe the officer overreacted, but if the law requires people to give way and your son didn't appear to at least be trying, I can see an officer issuing a citation.

#3: Littering. I have ZERO sympathy.

 

[waterhouse]

I agree with some of the others in this thread: I'd look into fighting the first two, and I wish the penanties for tossing the cig were more severe.

Funny story: I got pulled over in college for littering. I told the officer I hadn't littered, and he said he had seen me throw my cigarette out the window. This was news to me, as I don't smoke. I told the officer this, got pretty irate, and told him I was going to have a field day in court. I offered to let him search my car for a cig pack, lighter, matches, etc. and told him I was going to get him up on the stand and make him say he hadn't found any of it. I thought he must have pulled over the wrong car, but then he said "Well, I saw you stick your hand out the window and throw something away back there, but may be it wasn't a cigarette." Suddenly my head cleared enough to realize I had flicked a booger out the window. I told the cop and he apologized and we had a good laugh about it.

 

[2nd Amendment]

I sell cars. The manufacturers certainly do tint the front windows and it's legal in every state so far as I know. What is "illegal" in some states is tint other than that from the factory. Also, there is a device used to measure window tint, if the cop didn't have one then the ticket won't fly. Same with the exhaust.

 

[scottgun]

I'll just address the third incident, I wish more people would get tickets for tossing their cigarette butts out the window. I've seen exit ramps with 2-3 foot wide and 15 foot long heaps of cigarette butts all from people who are too inconsiderate to throw their trash where it belongs.

Its a shame that people's inconsiderate behavior needs to warrant a ticket, but when people don't know any better than to toss their stuff out the window, I guess thats where the line needs to be drawn, or ticket written.