LEOs outa control?

[Aguila Blanca]

The manufacturers certainly do tint the front windows and it's legal in every state so far as I know. What is "illegal" in some states is tint other than that from the factory.

Then please explain to me why, on both 2000 vehicles that I bought new, special order with "deep tint" glass, the rear doors, rear side windows, and rear window are so dark you can't see into the car but the front door windows on both cars are clear glass. From the factory.

It's the law here, and people from the 'hood get busted for it all the time. It has nothing to do with driver or operational safety, it's the law so the LEOs can see what people are doing inside the car when they approach on a traffic stop.

Makes sense to me.

 

[Don Gwinn]

Suddenly my head cleared enough to realize I had flicked a booger out the window. I told the cop and he apologized and we had a good laugh about it.

I think I'd have paid the ticket instead.


Last year, my wife was pulled over in her Camaro as she left a department store parking lot. Her coffee started to spill when she pulled out, and I guess she slowed down to put it right. The officer told her he had pulled her over because she wasn't wearing her seat belt. She WAS wearing it, actually, but he said he had known she wasn't wearing it in the parking lot because she'd had to slow down to put it on as she pulled out onto the street. I don't know if he was bored or fishing or what, but it was bizarre.

She ended up chewing his butt pretty hard. She covered all the arguments pretty well:

1. If she wasn't wearing a seat belt on private property, it was none of his business.
2. Seat belt use was not a primary enforcement issue (at that time) so he didn't have the right to pull her over for that reason alone.
3. No way could he use the fact that she slowed down a bit while pulling out as evidence that she wasn't wearing a seat belt, particularly after he admitted that he hadn't been able to see whether she'd been wearing it or not--and that she was wearing it when he DID see her.

He ended up apologizing to her there on the side of the road.
She can do stuff like that for some reason.

 

[richyoung]

Save a ticket and a wildfire and give your kid a scrubbed-out soup can.

...but NEVER a coffee can. NEVER,EVER a coffee can. ANYTHING but a coffee can!

 

[Don Gwinn]

It MAY be a state-specific thing, but I've never heard of new vehicles in the U.S. coming with tinted front windows or windshields from the factory. Maybe they sell that option in the "Sun Belt."

Here they absolutely do not. Rear side windows and sometimes the rear window, yes, but never the front.

 

[2nd Amendment]

Makes no sense to me. Assumes guilt on my part. If I wanted Johnny Law to see in my car I wouldn't be tinting it. Fortunately I live in one of the remaining normal states and tint isn't generally an issue, though over a certain point they can ticket here...and even make it stick if they use the appropriate light meter.

And that perception thing that requires a light meter also applies here(as well as the whole idea of whether cops are nuts these days). In looking at stuff on the lot I can't find, nor remember, any later model higher-end car with "clear" glass. They are even tinted in the windshields at least part way down. OTOH the Lincs and Caddys(and expecially SUV's), etc are tinted much more heavily in the back than the front, but they are still tinted all the way around.

Most states do require(whether they enforce it or not) that the front be less tinted than the rear. I suspect yours are tinted as well, just not as deeply as the back. I can't see manufacturers providing special windows on a state by state basis(though they did it for headlight arrangements back in the 50's so anything is possible...).

 

[walking arsenal]

i agree that your son should have got a ticket for throwing cigerette butts out the window.

be happy they didnt slap him with the X hundreds of dollar fine for littering, which they should have by the way, keep your garbage in your vehicle.

 

[Sindawe]

One site listing window tinting laws. http://www.tintdude.com/laws.html

 

[MikeIsaj]

Case #1. Window tinting is regulated by state law which follows federal guidlines and standards that the automakers follow. There is minimal tinting allowed on forward windows. It is slight but if you look closely on a sunny day, you will notice a slight tint on most cars. Rear windows may be darker, It's usually the forward windows that are cited as too dark. To prove his case in court the officer would need to quantify the darkness of the tint. This is done by measuring how much light passes through. If he didn't have the meter to check the tint at time of citation, you win. This is why most LEO don't bother writing this ticket. He's betting you will just be a sheeple and pay the fine. Same thing with the exhaust system. It is up to him to prove his case with quantitative evidence that the exhaust is too noisy. If he didn't use a db meter, you win.

Case #2. Most states require you to pull to the nearest shoulder and stop as safely as possible. If I am driving the firetruck and you are stopped at the intersection in front of me, usually I will prefer that you remain stopped and allow me to maneuver around you. Your son made a judgement call and in my opinion did the right thing. I'd argue this one in court.

Case #3. Throwing something out of the vehicle with no intention of retrieving it is littering. In the right place a cigarette butt could be much more than littering, as others have pointed out. Pay the ticket.

 

[Vernal45]

Some of the police cruisers I have seen have darker tint than the law allows.

 

[swacje41]

Instead of wondering why you didn't get a warning for these three violations, perhaps you should wonder why you don't get a ticket for all the other violations you commit. A warning is sometimes an option on the part of the officer, not a right on the part of the driver.

 

[Cosmoline]

LEO's seem to be under increasing pressure to make money. The minimum fines have gone through the roof just in the past 10 or 20 years. What used to carry a $25 penalty now hits you with $200. This is not the fault of the cops, but the fault of politicos and voters who can't or won't find proper means to finance local government. So the burden falls to law enforcement to be the bag men for the mayor and collect some cash. In a way our law enforcement has degenerated into something resembling the bribe systems used in the third world. Though at least in the third world you know the money you give goes to feed the cop and his family, not the mayor.

So we've all started seeing cops pulling us and others over for stupid things, then slamming them with massive fines. There's also the ongoing use of pretext stops to find those empty coffee can users and slap them around

 

[Lemon328i]

The Simplest Solution is sometimes the best solution

Officers are under pressure in most localities to write as many revenue generating tickets as possible. While "quotas" are unlawful just about everywhere, they simply exist as unstated policy.

The system's best friend is the person who simply pays the ticket or pleads "guilty" or "guilty with an explanation". The system's worst enemy is a person pleading "not guilty" and who is armed with a basic knowledge of traffic regulations and/ or legal strategies. It costs a ton of money to schedule and try to prosecute a person for a traffic offense, especially if that person is knowledgeable about requests for documentation, interrogatories, etc.

If every person in America who received a ticket (let's say for one month) simply requested a trial, the system would be so backlogged and so many officers would be pulled off the street (to testify) that legislatures would almost be forced to repeal some traffic laws or PD's would be forced to ignore minor offences.

 

[jefnvk]

#1 - yeah, iffy. If you know you are legal, take him to court.
#2 - if it was an emergency, he probably shouldn't have stopped. OTOH, it wouldn't be the first time I have heard of somone getting nabbed for it.
#3 - too bad for your son, he choose to litter. My brother just got 20 hours of community service for choosing to throw the remnants of his lunch all over someone's lawn while walking back to school.

On #2, is it possible that your son is telling you the whole truth? It wouldn't be the first time I have heard the parents get one story, and the police claiming the other, because the kid doesn't want their parents to take their car.

 

[ctdonath]

Officers are under pressure in most localities to write as many revenue generating tickets as possible.

Quite true. However, in light of this thread's purpose, the original poster (and offspring) managed to get away with flagrant violation three distinct laws on a regular basis for a prolonged period (years) - hardly the "out of control" he seeks to justify, and hardly reflecting pressure to generate tickets.

 

[BeLikeTrey]

Thats the benefits of having police friends

You can learn to discern between fishing expeditions and real issues. Yes cigarrettes are biodegradable but they do pose a fire hazard and are no pretty to have everywhere. (an Andy Griffith solution would have been to make him pickup a few hundred yards of trash and make him learn a lesson, which I would have done) Either way I don't think the litter thing was too out of line.

I do see a fishing expedition on your car, however. I have had the benefit of riding along many a nights with my friend just looking for something to do. Some nights needing more tickets to keep up grant money for the department he was at. How did they determine the grant money? Enforcement numbers and how are enforcemenrt numbers measured? Tickets. The problem is that there are informal quotas (and some not so informal)... Quotas nonetheless... sounds like this guy was ready to do his share that day. Both of those tickets on your car are easily beatable.

I really don't think that me or anyone else can tell you on the moving for a police officer issue. I need a map /sketch and pictures and then a diagram. That's an either / or issue there.... But I'm sure your son didn't do it maliciously but then again law enforcement has gotten too impersonal in the past few years... this could have again been resolved by requiring the boy to do ride alongs to understand WHY we move, Either way, there are much better ways than tickets but with impersonal attitudes and the "Quota system" for grants etc, we are fostering a bad position which in turn gives some police bad attitudes and which in turn, turns US against THEM. The main problem is that alot of departments are becoming REVENUE GENERATORS and not CIVIL SERVICE departments. I got specific departments in mind here. When that happens, guess who gets hired? It sure as hell ain't Andy Griffith.

My .02 cents

 

[Cosmoline]

I honestly can't think of ANY legitimate reason why a cop would issue a ticket for window tint. It's one of those laws that should just sit on the books. So if it's being enforced, the only reason would be to line pockets.

The more of this sort of thing that happens, the lower the public's opinion of LEO's will be. As the beat cop is reduced to being a bag man for the government, so will his ability to gain public trust when it's needed. At the same time there seems to be a defensive reaction among LEO's to become more militant and combat-oriented. They think of themselves as "soldiers" and the citizens as "civilians." None of these trends are good.

 

[cropcirclewalker]

I guess I don't understand the purpose of the tint law. Especially the front.

Is it illegal to wear sunglasses and drive? Hows come the market doesn't come up with a film that gets darker in sunlight like the glasses.

When was the last time you were approached by a leo from the front?

So many questions, so little time.

I prefer the "dispersion" method of trash control. You can mine a landfill and dig up newspapers that are 100 years old. They would never last that long in a roadside ditch. Trash is trash. Just because we can't see it doesn't mean that it isn't there.

Quit making trash.

 

[scottgun]

I honestly can't think of ANY legitimate reason why a cop would issue a ticket for window tint. It's one of those laws that should just sit on the books. So if it's being enforced, the only reason would be to line pockets.

It's for officer safety. They need to be able to see all the occupants when they approach a vehicle. You're on the public roadways, so their safety trumps your rights.

Plus it gives the officer a chance to pull you over and then check for other violations.

 

[Cosmoline]

I think the second part is accurate. It's yet another reason to stop on pretext, it should be enforced as a stand-alone law.

 

[Old Dog]

I'm still finding it hard to believe that not only has a thread about minor traffic tickets gone on for two pages, but that some actually are using the thread to tee off on LEOs, who aren't responsible for most of the silly laws nor the amounts charged for the fines in the first place ...

I think LEOs get a hard-on for writing people who they think are 'street racers' tickets.

Huh?
PS- the coffee can thing is getting real tired, too ...

 

[rock jock]

AND, to top it all off my youngest son, got a ticket last night, BECAUSE HE THREW A CIGARETTE BUTT OUT THE WINDOW..

No, he should not have received a ticket. He should have had his *** kicked! Using the world as your persnal ashtray is one of the most visible signs of lazy, inconsiderate, punk behavior I know of. I wish I knew the officer so I could give him a high-five. Most of the cops around here won't do a thing when some fool throws his butt out the window, even when he's sitting behind him at a traffic light.

 

[2nd Amendment]

However, in light of this thread's purpose, the original poster (and offspring) managed to get away with flagrant violation three distinct laws on a regular basis for a prolonged period (years)

I must have missed a couple? Even giving you the littering, that's one. At this point it seems the cop had neither a light meter nor a db meter so we in fact have no reason at all to suspect the poster was breaking any law, since the tickets absolutely will not hold up in court(if the above assumption is correct and he chooses to fight them).

 

[one-shot-one]

since many have gotten on you

about the cigarette, i'll only say that those who have ridden motorcycles behind those who do that won't take kindly to it.

 

[Standing Wolf]

...got a ticket last night, BECAUSE HE THREW A CIGARETTE BUTT OUT THE WINDOW

One of the things I loathed most about life in the People's Republic of California was seeing the enormous quantity of trash, including lit cigarettes, being thrown out of cars.

 

[heypete]

As a former EMT, dispatcher, etc., I must say that if you cannot get out of the way of an oncoming emergency vehicle (in our case, an ambulance), don't farking try. If there's a curb on one side that you can't get any closer to, that's fine. We'll go around you.

Don't bother with pulling into shoulders and whatnot -- we frequently use those to pass in an emergency. People pulling into them simply block that route for us.

Now, if you have the opportunity to safely pull to the right of an emergency vehicle, please do so. Use your turn signal so we know what you're doing. Funny story: While on a Code 3 call in San Jose, California in a primarially Vietnamese part of town, we came up upon a small car. Evidently the driver panicked upon seeing the ambulance behind him, and did nothing. "Fine", we said, and attempted to pass him on the left. Amazingly enough, he must have decided "I must get out of the way!" and went to the left, blocking us. We attempted to go back to the right, and he did too, again blocking us. By this time, we could tell that he was extremely agitated (his arms were flapping and the car was weaving back and forth in his lane), so we backed off, moved several lanes over, and passed him safely. One wonders he was FOB and unfamiliar with American ambulances?

I think that Public Safety officials in various states should get together, come up with a unified plan ("pull to the right if possible, otherwise stay in your lane") and put out Public Service Announcements to that effect. It would reduce much confusion and problems involving emergency vehicles.