Light .38 Special

[Storm]

My wife and 18 year old daughter would like to go shooting. They have never really shot other than some time behind an AR15 years ago. I know that traditional wisdom is to go with a .22LR, and I do own a S&W 422 semi-auto, but I much prefer the manual of arms of a revolver for a beginner. Buying a .22LR revolver isn't in the cards. I do have a .17 HMR Tracker, but with the 6.5" barrel it might be too much for them. My thought was to go with the lightest load possible in a .38 Special. I was thinking that my 4" Model 10 would be okay, or that my magnum J frame 5" Model 60 (shown below) would be even better. The J frame would be a good fit with their small hands and the extra size would soak up some of the recoil but still be manageable.

What would be the lightest .38 Special load that I could use to minimize recoil? Thanks for any comments. I'd really like to make this as positive an experience as I can for them.

 

[orchidhunter]

Storm, The 148 grain Wadcutter. They might be hard to find, there out ther if you look. orchidhunter

 

[Storm]

Storm, The 148 grain Wadcutter. They might be hard to find, there out ther if you look. orchidhunter

Thanks.

I'd also be interested to hear opinions regarding starting them with a revolver as opposed to a semi-auto, and, a .38 Special vs. .22LR or some other lighter caliber (which I don't have). A buddy of mine who is a firearms instructor believes that the manual of arms for a revolver is more intimidating than that of a semi-auto.

 

[orchidhunter]

Storm, Start them on a revolver and keep them on a revolver. To much to worry about with the semi autos. A lot of women folks have a hard time racking the slide back, and that turns them off real quick. I think your buddy has got that backwards about the manuel of arms. orchidhunter

 

[woad_yurt]

Look at Midway online. They have the ft lbs figures for the ammo they sell. There are lots of light loads if you know what to ask for.

The Model 10: Bring it with you. I have one and everyone who's shot it has liked it. It's a good size and just feels really good in the hand.

 

[Storm]

Storm, Start them on a revolver and keep them on a revolver. To much to worry about with the semi autos. A lot of women folks have a hard time racking the slide back, and that turns them off real quick. I think your buddy has got that backwards about the manuel of arms. orchidhunter

Orchid, I see it your way. From what I have seen racking that slide, as easy as it might be on a 422, is the one issue that I have heard my wife express concern over. I want the whole experience to go smoothly so that she continues shooting (I recall the grin on her face when she shot an AR) and will be able to use a gun for self-defense. My daughter I'm less concerned about as being young she is more inclined to try new things with a positive outlook. I also think that they could handle a .38 Special and that starting with a .22LR might not have the beneficial effect that one might imagine.

I can see them both eventually with a Model 60 3" barrel.

 

[bluetopper]

Racking the slide is one detriment to the semi auto and also no visible hammer on some as a safety issue to the beginner.
Wish you were close enough I'd give you some of my 148gr wadcutter reloads to start them off with.

 

[MrBorland]

What would be the lightest .38 Special load that I could use to minimize recoil? Thanks for any comments. I'd really like to make this as positive an experience as I can for them.

Wadcutters were already mentioned, but even below that, there's the .38 Colt and .38 Long Colt, the parent cartridges to the .38 special. I have no experience with them myself, but I've read you might lose some accuracy, especially with the .38 Colt, when shot out of a .38 or .357. Nonetheless, you could introduce shooters to standard .38 special loadings by progressively shooting .38 Colt, .38 Long Colt, .38 spl wadcutters, etc.

For really low power, there's also Speer's primer-only system if you're willing to handload.

 

[Racinbob]

I find that the WWB 130 fmj target/range loads that Walmart sells are quite mild. Same for the Remington. They are even pleasent to shoot in my 442. Not that I'd recommend putting a 15 ouncer in their hands. The recoil is very low in my 66. You have good grips for handling felt recoil on your 60. I really doubt that they would have a problem.

 

[wnycollector]

the lightest recoiling .38 round I have found is the 100gr DEWC from http://www.mastercast.net/amo.htm

From a from my snubbie Security Six they feel like a .22. My wife started out shooting with these loads.

 

[Storm]

Thanks guys, that's all great info! I'll try the rounds suggested. I think they'll be just fine.

BTW, that isn't my 60 in the photo but is a stock S&W photo. On mine I have the Hogue J frame grips that are very similar and should do the trick. Depending on how their hands fit I also have Hogue Bantams that could go on.

 

[BCRider]

I'd run them through a brick of .22 on your 422 with some help if needed just to get them used to holding and aiming with something that doesn't kick much. Then move them on to the revolver with regular .38's.

You mentioned that they had some time behind an AR so it's not like they are totally new to the experience of shooting and the kick they'll feel. Even regular .38 Spl has a pretty soft kick. And if they are keen on joining you at shooting instead of just coming with you to the range and doing something to fill the time then a bit of kick is all part of the fun.

I gather you've got a model 10 and a model 60. A quick check of the specs shows that the 10 weighs 36 oz and the 60 only 30.5. But then there's the two different grips. If they can hold the 10 with the correct finger wrap then the extra 5.5 oz will help deaden the recoil. But if they can wrap around the grips of the 60 more correctly then let them shoot that one since the correct grip will do more for their comfort than the lessening of the kick I would say.

Using softer rounds for the first box is a nice idea but you say they've had some AR15 time so it's not like the kick will be totally unexpected. A few magazines through the 422 will get them acustomed to the feel in prep for the .38. I know you want to train them on the revolver though but if you aid them or even prep the 422 and just let them concentrate on the holding and shooting and then move on to the whole order of arms training on the revolver following the "get re-aquainted with shooting" on the .22 I don't see that you'll be confusing them at all. And if they are truly keen they'll likely not have any issue at all with either.

And if it turns out that they prefer the feel of .22 for them would it really be the end of the world to add one to the safe? Not if you know it'll be used regularly. However I can see why you'd be hesitant if you don't know where they want to go with their own shooting. Who knows, they may both be asking about what .357 Magnum is like by the end of the first day....

 

[oneounceload]

as mentioned, a 148 wadcutter target load - I just bought several boxes for a 1928 Colt DS - worked well ....IIRC, I got them from Graf and sons - (they pay freight)

 

[Racinbob]

Storm, your Hogues should do great. Those in the photo look like Uncle Mikes which is what I put on my 442. I can't say that I love the looks but they work great. I had them on my 82 vintage 60 and loved the feel. Now that my 60 isn't my main carry I came across some American Legends for it and put the Mikes on the 442. It would be a disaster to let your wife try a J frame with the boot grips. Good luck and I love the care you're taking on introducing new shooters to the great sport.

 

[jaydubya]

Check www.mastercast.net, a reloading service that I use. They have a 100gr lead wadcutter that lopes along at about 600. It sounds and feels like a .22. I fired off 500 of them as a test, and was almost embarressed by how wimpy they were. But they are accurate and inexpensive, and Mastercast is also prompt. Because they are moving so slowly, the bullets occasionally will tear strips out of some targets, a small price to pay for gentility. This load reminds me of wadcutter load I handloaded decades ago for bullseye. On that outdoor range, at 25 and 50 yards, I could actually see the 'ghost' of the bullet arcing toward the target.

I've just received a shipment of 1500 rounds from Mastercast, 1000 .38sp 148gr LDEWC (a load often recommended above) and 500 9mm LTC. This makes 7,500 rounds I have bought from them, without a single problem. Highly recommended. I also save a bundle by sending them my spent brass in exchange (same caliber/number), and save even more by sending it USPS Priority Mail. My last batch of brass cost me nine bucks and change to send that way. Any other way I know of cost more than twenty.

Cordially, Jack

 

[GRIZ22]

Storm, Start them on a revolver and keep them on a revolver.

I agree for the same reason. If you master the DA action of a revolver any other trigger is easy.

 

[Storm]

I think the answer is going to be going with a revolver. I might bring my Smith 422 along, but I'd rather stick with one manual of arms and I think that knowing these two ladies that a revolver is going to be the way to go. I think my Model 10 is going to be a bit big for them for starters, and last night I looked back over the Model 60 and even with the five inch barrel it feels a good bit lighter and balances nicely. With the 148 grain wadcutters or 100 grain Mastercast (or the 130 grain WWB, which I'm also going to try) it should be just about right.

Their time behind an AR was many years ago, and I mention it more to highlight the fact that they aren't fearful of shooting rather than to suggest that they are in any way experienced. Their learning will be from the ground up. I'm frequently horrified to see folks teaching new shooters the manual of arms and gun safety for the very first time right on the range when that should have begun elsewhere before they hit the range. All too often I've had loaded guns waived at me by folks who have no idea what they are doing with "teachers" right there who have picked the worst place possible to begin their instruction. I'm not saying that instruction doesn't happen on the range, but so much needs to be done before one even gets there.

As to the Model 60, it came with those great looking cherry wood grips that unfortunately had to come off immediately in favor of the Hogues. Right now those cherry wood grips are on my M638 Bodyguard, and they look wonderful, but they will also come off that gun in favor of Hogues. I'm not counting out the Model 10 for them, but I think that the M60 with Hogues is going to be perfect.

Thanks for all of the advice. If the weather doesn't clear up here my daughter won't make it to the range before she goes back to school, but at least I'll get the wife to the range ASAP.

 

[woad_yurt]

Have you considered reloading? .38 SPL is an easy one to start with. My whole reloading rig cost $200 and now I just pull that handle and out pops a round. I use 3.2 grains of W231/HP38 for range duty and 4.0 grains for business loads, both loadings with 148 grain wadcutters. A can of powder lasts a long, long time.

 

[arizonaguide]

Just got my wife the S&W442.

The reason I didn't go with Semi-auto was not only the racking of the slide, but thinking about her trying to clear a failure to feed, or a misfire.

With the 442, it's "keep pulling the trigger until it goes click twice".
She has super small hands, so it was this or a .380, and she really likes the fit.

I will be using the LIGHTEST loads I can find for her training/confidence building.
Then the 135grain Speer Gold Dot HP+p's (made specially for snubbys) for carry.

I like it so much I'm thinking of another for me (w/ CT laser grips!)

 

[Storm]

Have you considered reloading?

Been there, done that, and loved it. But, unfortunately, I don't have the time these days to get back into it, at least not for a while ;-)) Maybe this time next year.

Arizonaguide, I figure that some time down the road my wife will try my M638 Bodyguard. I'm thinking that she will like it and eventually will work up to the Speer 135 grain Gold Dots that I also use. When she does have her own gun I'd bet dollars to donuts that it will be a 442/642 or another Bodyguard.

 

[JayL]

Storm - took my 2 daughters out to shoot (22 and 18) Saturday and their favorite was the Model 10 with wadcutters. We all had a great time. They didn't care for the S&W 637, even with wadcutters. I think I've got couple shooters coming along!

 

[Storm]

Storm - took my 2 daughters out to shoot (22 and 18) Saturday and their favorite was the Model 10 with wadcutters. We all had a great time. They didn't care for the S&W 637, even with wadcutters. I think I've got couple shooters coming along!

Outstanding! My Model 10 will definitely be in the mix. A great gun.

 

[machinisttx]

Wadcutters in a four to six inch barreled revolver are the next best thing to a .22 revolver for starting beginning shooters. IMO, of course.

I learned on a Ruger Single Six and a Navy stamped S&W Victory model.