Lon Horiuchi A Spokesperson For HS Precision ?
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Justin
Moderator Emeritus
No way, dude, he was totally in the Peace Corps.
Flyboy
Member
Actually, he was charged with murder. Do you know the outcome of that trial?RPCVYemen said:
It was dismissed on grounds of sovereign immunity: the government wouldn't allow its agent to be tried. Not acquitted, dismissed by government intervention.
Like OJ, he got away with murder, but he doesn't even have an acquittal to stand on.
yeti
Member
They were doing it for the children!
Apple a Day
Member
Just Jim,
I think it has more to do with the administration. Maybe if that Border Patrol agent had shot the Mexican drug dealer from 300 yards away while he was holding a baby then Bush would have pardoned him.
Stupid move by HS Precision.
ACORN
Member
I remember a quote: "Better to remain silent and thought a fool, than speak and remove all doubt"
There is no justification for her being shot to death.
It was a tragic and accidental - and could easily have been prevented by her husband. The fact that is was a tragedy is underscored by the settlement awarded to the million dollar settlement to each of her daughters.
If Len Horiuchi had intentionally shot an innocent unarmed woman and child, he would have been convicted of murder. He has not been convicted of murder.
Mike
It was dismissed on grounds of sovereign immunity: the government wouldn't allow its agent to be tried. Not acquitted, dismissed by government intervention.
Guess it's all in what you believe, Weaver stood trial and Horiuchi didn't. However Horuichi went on to kill at Waco what has Weaver done???. Hope it clears things up for you
Guess it's all in what you believe, Weaver stood trial and Horiuchi didn't. However Horuichi went on to kill at Waco what has Weaver done???. Hope it clears things up for you
Actually, he was not charged with murder - he was charged with manslaughter by Denise Woodbury. Their claim was not that Horiuchi intended to kill Vicki Weaver, but that he was grossly negligent in taking the shot.
There was no trial - the prosecutor who succeeded Woodbury decided to drop the charges because they state couldn't prove negligence.
Other than that, your post was entirely factual and correct.
Was asking about the outcome of a trial that never occurred a trick question?
Mike
Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
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You got that straight, jack! Still, we must attempt to Zumbo them to the extent possible. If most of their business if from the gov't, then they won't care a LOT - but we just may hurt them a LITTLE, and that's better than NONE.
Deanimator
Member
Really?
How many Chicago cops were convicted of the murders of Mark Clark and Fred Hampton, shot to death, asleep in their beds? Or do murderers only get convicted if they work for the Federal government? Help me out here.
One of two things is possible:
1. Lon Horiuchi is a murderer who intentionally shot a woman holding an infant. The facts tend toward this, given his post-shooting behavior.
2. Lon Horiuchi is an incompetent buffoon who shouldn't be allowed to heft a spork, much less a firearm. This had some traction with the professionals who post on Sniper Country. Some of them think he's in inept nitwit.
Having actually met him, I tend toward 1. He struck me as the kind of guy who would reinact Babi Yar if someone above him in his chain of command told him to. Of course you may feel that we don't have enough sociopaths in Federal service.
Deanimator
Member
More like adoration than faith.
Of course you could argue that authority IS his faith.
He reminds me of the retired Canadian cop who used to post in the Fullbore mailing list. He thought nobody had a need for a "sniper rifle", although he couldn't explain the difference between one and his 1,000 target rifle. He went as far as to say that anyone had a duty to go into a racial concentration camp if that's what the government ordered. Then one day he got into a peeing contest with the Canadian firearms registration authorities. They started unlawfully sharing his emails to them with a couple of Canadian cops online who gave him a hard time. When it was HIS ox being gored he cried big tears. I just quoted Pastor Niemoller's sermon back to him, "First they came for the Jews..." He didn't have a clue.
Strange that he has nothing to say about the BATF lying to the Federal Marshalls about Weaver being a "bank robber", which was of course the proximate cause of ALL of the deaths. NOBODY would have died without the Federal Klan's attempt to entrap Weaver.
Randy Weaver is a stupid, hateful little man. But in this country, even stupid, hateful little men have rights. When they don't NOBODY has anything but easily revocable privileges. Some people like it that way. Of course there's quite a bit of opinion INSIDE the BATF(E) that's really in sync with Randy Weaver's previously stated beliefs. It's why there were "n***** hunting licenses" in people's cubicles in their offices in the Murrah Federal Building. It's why they put on the WHITES ONLY "Good Old Boy's Roundup" with its "n***** checkpoint" to make sure that Black law enforcement officers were turned away, as they were. It's why the BATF had to pay its Black employees a $4.6million settlement for racial discrimination, harassment and intimidation. Apparently he doesn't mind White supremacist activity. He just minds White supremacist activity which competes with that organized within Federal law enforcement.
Flyboy
Member
You are correct in that I erred in stating that he was charged with murder; it was, in fact, involuntary manslaughter. Mea culpa.
That said, the prosecutor didn't drop the charges initially; Judge Edward Lodge did under the doctrine of sovereign immunity. The Ninth Circuit court ultimately reversed the dismissal, but the prosecutor declined to press the issue due to the time that had elapsed.
Yes, I suppose you could say that the prosecutor dropped the charges, but it would overlook the fact that he only did so as a result of the delay incurred as a result of the sovereign immunity claim that was the basis for the first dismissal. I think leaving that part out is intellectually dishonest, but you can do as you will.
While there may not be a conviction on him, it's pretty clear that he's not an angel, either.
In any event, this thread isn't about his criminal record (or lack thereof). This thread is about his endorsement of a product, and the fact that his questionable reputation in the industry makes his endorsement potentially embarrassing.
1911 guy
Member
Will E-mail HS Precision.
As soon as I'm logged off here I'm going to send off an e-mail. Maybe a phone call, too.
Does anuone know off the top who uses HS Precision stuff for OEM and who (if anyone) sells their product re-branded?
A vocal and persistent boycott is indeed in order.
RPCVYemen, I would suggest that you acquaint yourself with the facts of the incident in question before running your mouth. You obviously have no grasp of what happened at Ruby Ridge or how those events unfolded. I don't claim to be an expert in them, either, but apparently have a more firm grasp on the events than you do. Lon Horiuchi (not "Len", as you typed) is thought to have fired the opening shots at R.R., knowingly killed Mrs. Weaver and went on to commit the same class of butchery at Waco. Sure, the people involved had some distasteful beliefs, but that's life. Vociferous defense of a sociopath isn't exactly firm ground to fight from.
As soon as I'm logged off here I'm going to send off an e-mail. Maybe a phone call, too.
Does anuone know off the top who uses HS Precision stuff for OEM and who (if anyone) sells their product re-branded?
A vocal and persistent boycott is indeed in order.
RPCVYemen, I would suggest that you acquaint yourself with the facts of the incident in question before running your mouth. You obviously have no grasp of what happened at Ruby Ridge or how those events unfolded. I don't claim to be an expert in them, either, but apparently have a more firm grasp on the events than you do. Lon Horiuchi (not "Len", as you typed) is thought to have fired the opening shots at R.R., knowingly killed Mrs. Weaver and went on to commit the same class of butchery at Waco. Sure, the people involved had some distasteful beliefs, but that's life. Vociferous defense of a sociopath isn't exactly firm ground to fight from.
Flyboy
Member
Remington and Savage still do; CZ says in their catalog and on their website that they do, but their marketing director told me today that they haven't in some time, and will be correcting their literature.
X-Rap
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GM has fired Tiger Woods and placed Ted Kennedy as their spokesman.
There would seem to be no shortage of fine examples of shooters that H&S Precision could pick from the ongoing conflict to endorse their product. Of course they would run the risk of pissing off the radical islamist instead of the American gun owning public.
I nominate Gunny Jack Coughlin
There would seem to be no shortage of fine examples of shooters that H&S Precision could pick from the ongoing conflict to endorse their product. Of course they would run the risk of pissing off the radical islamist instead of the American gun owning public.
I nominate Gunny Jack Coughlin
Float Pilot
Member
There is a reason why the founding fathers did not introduce an all powerfull Federal law enforcement agency, but rather preferred Local, county, city and State agencies which were more accountable to the public for whom they were supposed to serve.
Here is a photo of the back page of the offending catalog.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryjones/3059382773/
Here is a photo of the back page of the offending catalog.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryjones/3059382773/
There's a big difference - everyone here is claiming intent to kill! Intent is not some unimportant detail! The difference between murder and involuntary manslaughter is monumental in the law:
If the state had any evidence of intent, he would at the very least have been charged with voluntary manslaughter.
But notice that the Tinfoil Brigade asserts right and left with a loud voice that Lon (sorry about the earlier miss-spelling) intended to kill Vicki, that the murdered her. But when it was time to man up and show a little evidence in a actual court of law, the prosecutor - with the help of a special prosecutor - couldn't even mount a charge that included intent! That darn pesky evidence stuff wrecks so many great conspiracy theories.
Skipping unimportant minute little details like the difference between murder and involuntary manslaughter is one of the hallmarks of the Tinfoil Brigade.
Mike
Patently untrue. There are plenty of people out there who have committed murder who have escaped successful prosecution. Add in federal governmental intervention, and the fact that Mr. Horiuchi was not brought to justice means exactly nothing.
I tend to agree that prosecuting Mr. Horiuchi for murder would be a non-starter for practical reasons...he can fall back on the idea that what he did was an error, not a deliberate act. A trial for manslaughter would be another issue, but it was not to be.
The simple fact remains that HS Precision chosing Mr. Horiuchi as a spokesman is a blisteringly stupid idea. He is, at best, not competent to use their product. At worst, he is an unconvicted murderer. Neither one is what could be termed a marketing coup.
Mike
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