Looks like a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

[machinisttx]

I would disagree with you. The .357 Magnum is the king of one-shot stops. It beats out the .45 ACP, and anything else in the handgun category; that is until the .357 Sig round was invented. The .357 Sig very slightly edges out the .357 Magnum at common grains, and finally makes this stopping power, commonly referred to as the lightning bolt effect, available in a semi-automatic that holds many more rounds than a revolver ever will.

I'd hardly call the .357 Sig a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

-Raystonn

Unless they've made some significant change to the ammo, the Sig round isn't any better than the Magnum. It's also far less versatile. The Sig round is at it's best with 125 grain bullets, and if loaded with anything heavier velocity starts dropping off much faster than the Magnum.

I'd also guess that the comparison was made between fully jacketed hollow points in both cartridges, rather than the semi jacketed hollow point that made the Magnum famous.

 

[Sam]

Unless they've made some significant change to the ammo, the Sig round isn't any better than the Magnum. It's also far less versatile. The Sig round is at it's best with 125 grain bullets, and if loaded with anything heavier velocity starts dropping off much faster than the Magnum.

I'd also guess that the comparison was made between fully jacketed hollow points in both cartridges, rather than the semi jacketed hollow point that made the Magnum famous.

The SIG is significantly less effective when you consider the most effective loadings of the 357, as opposed to the most popular loadings.

The thing most telling about the "solutions to a problem that does not exist" are their low survival rate. Unless heavily subsidized by an entity with unlimited funds, they tend to disappear in a relatively short time.

 

[LightningJoe]

The .357 Sig very slightly edges out the .357 Magnum

Logical error #47: Impossible calculation.

 

[Raystonn]

Logical error #47: Impossible calculation.

It's the truth.

FBI Tests the .357SIG:
http://www.recguns.com/Sources/IIIC2q8.html

The purpose of the FBI tests is to evaluate how ammunition will perform in all situations that agents may find themselves in. These tests were developed and formalized after the famous Miami incident.

The author said that out of the 8 testing categories of the 40 round evaluation, tests 6 and 8 are the acid tests. These two tests involve shooting at lightly clothed gelatin through automobile glass.

Besides the 40-round test, every load is checked for pressure, velocity, and accuracy.

Another important emphasis by the FBI besides penetration, is bullet placement.

The 357SIG performance is equivalent to a 125 grain 357 Magnum with a 2 1/2" to 4" barrel length.

One complaint about the 357 and 9 ammo in similar grain loads as the 357SIG, is that they have limited penetration, especially after going through glass. The 357SIG is designed to have controlled expansion and excellent penetration.

The 357SIG held up as advertised. It exceeded 12 inches in all eight tests.

Dr Topper stated: "Average velocity from the SIG229 used in the gelatin tests was 1309 fps, and velocity from the test barrel was 1364 fps. Extreme velocity spread was only 55 fps from the SIG pistol and 47 fps from the test barrel, indicating excellent consistency in performance from both the ammo and the test gun. A 10-shot group from the test pistol averaged just 1.89 inches at 25 yards. The test barrel's group was only 1.14 inches, again indicating excellent performance from both the gun and the cartridge."

The pressure of the 357SIG, 40,000 psi, puts it into the magnum category, which means it can generate a lot of recoil. Since the SIG229 was designed as a magnum semiauto, recoil is very controllable and it kicks less than a medium weight 3" 357 revolver. It also holds 13 rounds compared to six rounds in a revolver.

The FBI tests showed that the 357SIG round out-performed the 357 Magnum revolver and the very popular 9mm Luger semiautos.

Honestly, the .357 Sig is a great advance in ballistics technology. Anyone who thinks it's "a solution to a problem that doesn't exist" is just fooling himself.

-Raystonn

 

[Sam]

How many are in the unsubsidized market and how many will be in 5 years.
I don't get as many customers asking for the 357 SIG as I do for the 327 and those are very sparse indeed.
I'd say 95% of the private owners I know l are NMSP guys who got them because they had a source of free ammo

Sam

 

[thebaldguy]

"Looks like a solution to a problem that doesn't exist."

I'm one of the people who say the above quote. My apologies to anyone I may have offended.

It's not my intention to rip on anyone who likes a new round. But if someone asks my opinion, they get my input. Some have fallen by the wayside, some haven't. The .357 Magnum was one of those rounds years ago, just like the .308 Winchester. I'm not sure if these new rounds are an improvement or not. Time will tell. I do know that expensive, hard to find ammo does not sell well, and if it doesn't sell, it doesn't survive the market.

 

[Nolo]

Because it's generally true. We've had all the cartridges we needed since the beginning of the 20th century. All the guns we needed since the 60s.

I don't understand the "we need" part of this. You have not quantified the need with a goal. There is no such thing as need without goal parameters. If you use very narrow goal parameters, your statement might be true. If you use very liberal goal parameters, your statement would most certainly prove false.

 

[Raystonn]

I do know that expensive, hard to find ammo does not sell well, and if it doesn't sell, it doesn't survive the market

I can find .357 Sig ammo in Wal Mart. It's cheaper than .45 ACP ammo.

-Raystonn

 

[Jayman]

Heck, I like .357sig, but only because I can get brass for it all day long. I started reloading it for a friend who is stuck with it as his duty gun and kept loading it for myself because it was fun. I too believe that maybe it wasn't the best new thing and perhaps a solution to a problem that didn't exist, but it is still fun to play with.

 

[LightningJoe]

I don't understand the "we need" part of this. You have not quantified the need with a goal. There is no such thing as need without goal parameters. If you use very narrow goal parameters, your statement might be true. If you use very liberal goal parameters, your statement would most certainly prove false.

The term "goal parameters" is also a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

 

[LightningJoe]

It's the truth.

FBI Tests the .357SIG:
http://www.recguns.com/Sources/IIIC2q8.html

Your original post mentioned stopping power. Now if you want to say that in some particular test the .357 Sig ammo used penetrated farther than the .357 Magnum ammo used, that's fine. Might not mean much due to the vast array of different ammo available for both cartridges, but it's measureable.

 

[misANTHrope]

Huh, I figured this was going to be a thread about the Remington EtronX system.